I have found trying to convince vendors is like trying to convince the ocean tide not to Eb and flow. Sadly at least 3 vendors in the past year I have dealt with have reduced sales down to bolt action c&r items only.
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Who talked?
- Thread starter 55_grain
- Start date
This is the main reason I asked Derek if I could moderate the milsurp section a long time ago. I got tired of reporting posts and trying to protect myself and the others who ordered from distributors for both ammo and guns. Since the crackdown on distributors began I've watched about a dozen businesses stop dealing with MA residents including ones who had an FFL on file because of threats from the AGs office.
Being a Massachusetts gun owner is bad enough with the restrictions we have placed on us. Never mind the actions of jealous shop owners, having a distributor like Lew Horton recommend others stop selling to MA residents (that's why SAMCO Global stopped dealing with us), and the average schmuck who blabs to everyone about a distributor that ships ammo here.
Being a Massachusetts gun owner is bad enough with the restrictions we have placed on us. Never mind the actions of jealous shop owners, having a distributor like Lew Horton recommend others stop selling to MA residents (that's why SAMCO Global stopped dealing with us), and the average schmuck who blabs to everyone about a distributor that ships ammo here.
Sadly, I'm not sure if any vendor cares enough to throw their weight and legal budget behind the effort. However, a vendor re-education initiative/campaign led by GOAL/Comm2a would be incredible. I'd throw my dollars behind it in a heartbeat.
Last edited:
RandomBS
NES Member
There must be some sort of way we can turn around the internet ammo sale situation, if anything got started on that front I'd definitely donate to the cause. The fact that retailers can just be relentlessly bullied without even any law behind it blows my mind, this state is so ****ed up.
RandomBS
NES Member
She threatens a civil suit that she knows will go no where, but requires the seller to hire legal counsel and to appear in a MA court or face a loss by default. The vast majorities of sellers decided it's not worth it to even try to sell in MA, the possible profits isn't worth the risk or hassle of going through the motions to defend themselves.
This is how I understand it anyway, feel free to correct me anyone.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
The same basis for the foolish utterance of "Its not illegal to be illegal in MA."
Evidently its not "legal to be legal in MA" either.
The AG is violating the meaning and spirit of the law, which was meant to require a permit/license for vendors of ammunition INSIDE the borders of Massachusetts where the transaction is initiated and terminated within the states borders.
The AG has single handedly expanded that to mean "into" Massachusetts, thereby governing the actions of someone far beyond the borders of the state.
We no longer live under the rule of law, we live under the rule of individual's dictates without review or oversight and until someone comes up with sufficient funds to mount a legal challenge, or uses sufficient physical violent force to end the problem its going to continue to exist. The other choice is blatant disregard and ignorance of the AG's dictates and do as we please in protest. Once again, as in anything to do with firearms in MA, it boils down to having to deal with the hired guns who'll come to kill you if they see fit.
Your best bet is to have it shipped out of state and pick it up, or move out of this state and deny the state completely of any funds you pay into it. Thats my choice and damned glad I did it.
Last edited by a moderator:
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Death BED? More like the cold,wet,filthy, stinking gutter.
So... an online distributing company that has good ammo prices and has previously shipped to MA just cancelled my order because "the AG has threatened prosecution of companies that ship ammo to Mass" according to my voicemail.
Nice going, guys.![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
Tell your vendor to talk to a lawyer, who will explain why they can tell the MA AG to go pound sand.
Understand that this is not only due to the practices of the AG, but also due to the fact that no individual or organization has been willing to challenge the legality of the practice. This mindset I do not understand.
It's like the Russian guy telling Rambo to surrender or they will kill him, so he does (rather than becoming their worst nightmare). How long has the AG been getting a good laugh out of this at your expense?
Last edited:
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Lawyers cost money, most vendors don't see the profit motive to deal with the AG so they just don't deal with MA residents. As much as people want to think they are a major player in the ammo purchasing world, MA is really but a drop in the ocean.
The problem with MA is that the legislature and the judiciary are wholey communistic in their thought, ideals and their decisions. They have no regard or respect for the liberty of the individual, nor do they care to stop the trampling of the individuals rights by another when confronted with it.
Until that changes and or is eliminated by whatever means, nothing will change in MA and the entire state will collapse under the weight of its own ignorance. Just watch and see what the next couple of years brings.
That's a red herring. Heller in DC isn't a rich guy. He had an organization backing him up. Same with McDonald in Chicago.
But I agree an ammo vendor shouldn't have to spend the money on a lawyer to explain. Are there no lawyers in MA on this board who could spell it out in a document that could be made available to a vendor? It seems pretty damned simple to explain: The MA AG has no jurisdiction outside the state, and the wording of the law reflects that truth. It's like N Korea saying they can nuke the US: It's pure bullshit, but no one believes it in their case.
Who gives a shit what Mass courts think. This is a lawsuit that you intend to kick up, out, and away from a biased state court to get a fair ruling at the Circuit level or higher.
Two years? If there's something in the works, well then that's great!
F
Finalygotabeltfed
"But I agree an ammo vendor shouldn't have to spend the money on a lawyer to explain."
And that is the bottom line, and they won't spend the money.
And that is the bottom line, and they won't spend the money.
Last edited by a moderator:
![[banghead]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/045.gif "Bang Head [banghead]")
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Darn crash ate my previous response.
RandomBS, GOAL's already on it; here's what you're looking for: Bill H.2181
So... It's in the Joint Committee for Public Safety and Homeland Security: Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security
Write & call them to ask that it be released with a Favorable recommendation and write your State Rep to get him or her to vote for the darn thing. Get all your friends and relatives to do the same.
What they should do is sue under the commerce clause.There is no state law so F the ag. She needs to be spanked.
I would like to se the AG charged with harrasment....I for one want to know what else to do. I have been reading everything from goal and other than this bill being proposed goal has not out lined anything for us to do..
I see now almost everything is tagged with homeland security attached to it. This to me anyway is troublesome.
Is that rat bastard Ted at it again??? F*ck you Ted!!!
All we really need is one place to go all in. it would have to basically be an activist type who was in it for the principle rather than business reasons. They retain local counsel who knows MA state firearm laws inside and out and then put out an advertising blitz calling attention to the fact that the ship ammo to MA residents who are willing to file their license status as proof they are legally allowed to purchase ammo. Not just a small add or openly saying they will sell to MA residents but something near an all out taunting of the AG. The AG would be forced to respond or face the floodgates opening. Then it would just be a matter of winning the case in the activist court system in MA, or appealing the loss to the Federal courts on interstate commerce grounds.
of course extra care would have to be taken in the shipping; personal sig only type stuff and everything done by the book to cut down on the States angles.
so ahh...any volenteers? we basically just need someone from beyond the borders of this cess pool with an FFL, unlimited monitary resources, and vengence in his heart.
of course extra care would have to be taken in the shipping; personal sig only type stuff and everything done by the book to cut down on the States angles.
so ahh...any volenteers? we basically just need someone from beyond the borders of this cess pool with an FFL, unlimited monitary resources, and vengence in his heart.
that won't work, Midway has too much to lose....
Parker Duofold
NES Member
Unfortunately, Chris, most companies will NOT ship if the credit card you're using has a billing address in MA, even if you do have a shipto in another state.
That has not been my experience. YMMV
55_grain
NES Member
Hmmm. Do "we" not have that yet? I'll ask the company in question here, they seen like good folks.
55_grain
PS: can't ship pepper spray to MA either, LOL.
Also remember with the buying frenzy and states like NY passing laws in the middle of the night the vendors are trying to keep up with what each state has for laws. IMHO I don't think anyone ratted this out, its to wide spread across vendors. Its more likely since states are passing ridiculous laws the companies are looking at each state and asking themselves can we sell / ship ammunition to this state. Remember the media has pounded away at the fact that one of the crazy shooters purchased 6K rounds of ammunition using the internet. Again just MHO.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Here's a crazy idea.
Well need a mass lawyer that's a gun owner ... Any takers??
Next we come up with a fake ammo company name. Get a po box out of state.
Bunch of us donate money to take a fake ad out in the globe saying x company will ship ammo ...
Wait for the letter to show up then take the ag to court ?
Crazy idea cause I have no idea how much time it would tie up the lawyer.
Heck I'd be willing to give 100$ right now. I'm sure we could run a "group buy" to pay for the Nes lawyer that will stand up for this .
Well need a mass lawyer that's a gun owner ... Any takers??
Next we come up with a fake ammo company name. Get a po box out of state.
Bunch of us donate money to take a fake ad out in the globe saying x company will ship ammo ...
Wait for the letter to show up then take the ag to court ?
Crazy idea cause I have no idea how much time it would tie up the lawyer.
Heck I'd be willing to give 100$ right now. I'm sure we could run a "group buy" to pay for the Nes lawyer that will stand up for this .
