Which one you would get it? Remington or HOWA?

Kenny,
I bought an optics a month ago, because I was told is a good scope at the local store.
I ordered and got a Nikon Monarch 5-20X44 SF 8424 for $350 . It is refurbished with warranty, and I think is brand new. I didn't know when I ordered tactical, and hunting scope a bit different, so I 'm not sure I did a right thing or not. If you have a suggestion, I will appropriate that. I can sell for $350-400 on craigslist.com easy , and will buy a different one. Still planning to shoot at 600-800 yards
 
Atti_Mac said:
Kenny,
I bought an optics a month ago, because I was told is a good scope at the local store.
I ordered and got a Nikon Monarch 5-20X44 SF 8424 for $350 . It is refurbished with warranty, and I think is brand new. I didn't know when I ordered tactical, and hunting scope a bit different, so I 'm not sure I did a right thing or not. If you have a suggestion, I will appropriate that. I can sell for $350-400 on craigslist.com easy , and will buy a different one. Still planning to shoot at 600-800 yards
Click to expand...

I think that will be fine. It seems to be a decent compromise between an all out long range target optic and a hunting optic. A little more top end magnification would be nice, but 20X should do well.

The ideal situation would be a separate scope for targets and another for hunting, but if you are only going to have one, that seems good enough. I feel that a low of 5X is a little high for hunting, but I hunt in New England, and I am unfamiliar with the terrain in your area. If your shots will be from 50-200 yards, I think a 3-9X scope would be better for hunting. But if you will be shooting 100yds+ minimum, than the 5X will be great. You could still use the scope you have for targets if you like, as you can get a good hunting scope for $100-150. You don't need absolute top line, just clear optics and something that holds zero. I have a used Bushnell on my 30-06 that I paid $25 for, and it hasn't lost zero with over 250 rounds and being lugged through the woods and bumped and banged. I also believe Bushnell has a lifetime warranty as well, though I am not sure. But their scopes are affordable and will get the job done very effectively.

One problem I think you may run into is being able to adjust your POI from 800yds down to an acceptable zero for hunting, such as a 100-200yd zero. I believe you may have to run a 20MOA base for shooting at 800yds, as you may not be able to adjust the scope enough to get a zero at 800yds. If you don't know what a 20MOA base is, it's a scope base that is tilted slightly downward at the front, which will aim your scope 20MOA downward, so you don't use all of the adjustment of your scope to get an 800yd zero. I am very unfamiliar with shooting that distance, so I am unsure if you will need a 20MOA base or not. I'm sure someone else will know more than I.

So having a separate scope, rings and bases for hunting would probably be beneficial. But make sure you get very rugged rings and a 1 piece scope base, as they are very important. You want the mount and rings to be as solid as possible, as any flex will show up big time at 800yds.
Also, you will want to "lap" and align your rings. Here is an article on how it's done, along with the proper tool to do it. You will notice the alignment tool has flat ends on the tool. That is what you want, the tools with pointed ends are JUNK, don't use them. They do not align anything properly. If you know someone with a machine shop, or there is one in the area, you can probably have similar stuff made for short money, but it could go either way. Or possibly find a gunsmith in the area that will do it for you, or let you use the equipment to do it.
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.co...i-ring-lapping-tool-and-scope-alignment-bars/


If you were to go with a separate scope for each application, this is what I would go with for a target optic:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...T_36_Adjustable_Objective.html#specifications
The Weaver T-Series are some of the best lower priced target scopes going. I have been told by several people on the 6mmbr.com forum they are the way to go for a budget target optic.

Now for hunting, I would go with one of the following:
These two have illuminated reticles, which are visible in very low light. They are really good for early morning and late afternonn, when you wouldn't be able to see the crosshairs in a standard optic. I have used them previously while hunting, and they are just awesome. Really helpful.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...50_Banner_Riflescope_with.html#specifications
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421463-REG/Bushnell_713949I_3_9x40_Banner_Riflescope_with.html

The lower two are designed to have good light transfer in low light situations, such as dusk or dawn, when it can be difficult to see through a traditional optic.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...10_3_5_10x36_Banner_Dusk_.html#specifications
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...9x40_Legend_Riflescope_w_.html#specifications

This one has additional aiming points out to 250yds, which will be great for holdover on long shots while hunting, as you don't often have time to be twisting turrets.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...0_Trophy_Riflescope_Matte.html#specifications

Sorry this is a mile long. I hope it helps though.
Kenny
 
Last edited:
I ordered the Savage 10 FP heavy barrel 24 " with accutrigger 1:10 twist for $595.38 with tax. That was a best price so far I found. It will take 3-4 days to get it. I gonna order a Harris bipod and a rings, with a base , and next weekend ready to go to the range ! :)
 
Atti_Mac said:
I ordered the Savage 10 FP heavy barrel 24 " with accutrigger 1:10 twist for $595.38 with tax. That was a best price so far I found. It will take 3-4 days to get it. I gonna order a Harris bipod and a rings, with a base , and next weekend ready to go to the range ! :)
Click to expand...

Congrat's on your purchase! I hope you enjoy it, though I am pretty sure you will!
 
Atti_Mac said:
Kenny, what about this scope:
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-6-5-20x50-pa-riflescope-dead-hold-bdc-reticle
I just find out mine has no mil dot , so I need a range finder?
I can get this Viper for almost a same price then my Brand new Monarch.
Click to expand...

It definitely looks like it will do the job. I like the BDC reticle as well. Though if you plan to be shooting at unknown ranges (IE: a shooting lane without distance markings) than a range finder will be very good to have. It's something every long distance marksman should have eventually, along with a wind meter and a few wind flags.

What kind of reticle does your scope have? You can use a crosshair, and just dial in holdover and windage with the turrets on your scope. But if you planned on judging distance with the Mil-Dot's, than you will need a range finder. Myself, I would stick with the scope you have, and try to find a range finder at a decent price. Just make sure that if you do buy a range finder, that it will read off your target or an animal, as some need a reflective surface to get a accurate reading at more than a few hundred yards. I am not the most knowledgeable on rangefinders, so another member with more knowledge will be more helpful. But you will definitely need at least some wind flags when you start shooting, as you need to be able to judge the wind to figure bullet drift.

You can use surveyor's tape on some wooden dowels for wind flags, and as long as the tape is free to turn they will work well. Basically, take a 3/8" wooden dowel about 3 or 4 feet tall, and find a washer that fits on it snug and superglue it about 1.5" down from the top, and another right at the top. Now take about 14" of surveyor's tape, and fold about 2" of the end over the end of the dowel between the washers. Now superglue the short end of the tape to itself, but leave it loose enough that it can turn around the dowel as wind shifts, but not so loose that it slips over the washer. Basically, you will have created a loop at the end of the tape that will act as a hinge of sorts, and have a foot of tape to act as a flag. You don't need huge washers. They should have a 3/8" I.D. and about a 3/4" O.D. that way the tape can turn with little effort.

Something like this will get you started for a wind meter, not the best but it's only $30 : http://www.ambientweather.com/ca112350.html

If you are only going to be shooting on marked shooting lanes for a while, than you can wait on the range finder. Or, since you will have to walk down to set up your targets anyway, use a rolling tape measure. This is only $30 and will allow you to know exactly how far you are shooting, only it's a bit more work that using a laser.
http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Tools-Digital-Measuring-Wheel/dp/B0002JVZFS/ref=pd_cp_hi_3
You can even hold it off to the side and ride a bike, or hold it out the window of your car or ATV. It will get the job done for short money, and that's all that matters.
 
A little tidbit about rangefinders. You get what you pay for. I have used Bushnell, Leica and Swarovski. For ranging targets you need to drop off about 20-30% of what they say they can do. The Leica 1200 and 900 are good units. The Swarovski is very nice and works better than any of the other unit I have used. The older Leica Geovids are also very good. I have a older bushnell 4500 which works much better than the newer ones, and is a lot cheaper than the either the Leicas or Swarovski. All they really do save you time in ranging targets. Learning to use the scope just takes some practice. I would not spend the money again unless I was shooting lots of timed comps. I think the money can be better spent on ammo or reloading.
 
Thank you. I will just keep the Monarch then. And will learn how to shot , and read a scope with it.If I will have more experience I will get a different one.I have a wind meter at my job, I can borrow to the weekends. How much older that "older bushnell 4500" ? It was a typo ? I can't find a model 4500 . Are u sure is not a 450?
I can get those on Ebay .
 
Kenny,
I was shopping around to get scope mount , and I found this :
*Savage long 110 111 112 114 116
Savage Long Aluminum Matte Clear 20 MOA Sav-L-C-0-20 Yes $109.94
Savage Long steel matte black 0MOA SAV-L-1-0 Yes $109.94
Savage Long Aluminum Matte Black SAV-L-B-0 Yes $109.94
Savage Long Aluminum Matte Black 20 MOA Sav-L-B-20 Yes $109.94
Savage Long steel matte black 15MOA SAV-L-1-15 Yes $109.94
Savage Long Aluminum Matte Clear Sav-L-C-0 Yes $109.94
Savage Long Steel 2 Piece Matte Black 20MOA SAV-2P-L-1-20 Yes $109.94
Savage Long Steel Matte Black 20MOA SAV-L-1-20 Yes $109.94
Savage Long Steel 2 Piece Matte Black SAV-2P-L-1-0 Yes $109.94
Savage Long steel matte black 10 moa SAV-L-1-10 Yes $109.94

it is different "Moa" 20,0.15,10
How do I know which one I will need?
 
Depends on how much elevation you scope has and where you want to zero it. Some scopes do not have enough travel to zero at 100 yards and still dial out to 800,900, 1000 or whatever. 20 moa base should work fine but you really need to know how much travel your scope has and what load you are shooting. The 175 smk at 2650 needs about 38 moa to get to 1000 on a standard day. If you have at least 40 moa of travel you should be ok with a level base. Otherwise you may need some added elevation.
 
Actually I just ordered yesterday evening a EGW Savage RB (Round Back)Short action 0 MOA Picatinny Tactical Rail Scope Mount, and a Burris Zee Signature 1" Rifle Scope Mount Rings for Weaver Style bases. I hope it was a good decision.
 
Yes it is:)
I got a 10FP 24" heavy barrel .308 rifle already.
I will keep a Nikon Monarch 5-20X44 , because I couldn't sell it
I ordered :
- B&C medalist A2 stock ( for 4.40" newer centerfeed models)
- EGW Savage RB (Round Back) Picatinny Tactical Rail Scope Mount
- Burris Zee Signature 1" Rifle Scope Mount Rings for Weaver Style bases
- Harris Bipod BRM-S 6-9"
- can't find a good price for podloc, everybody seems to sold out, but I can order later..
So next week might everything will be together. Thanks for a professional advices I got here.
Have a nice weekend!
 
That should work out great for you. You will have a nice setup. I *think* that scope has 40 moa travel. If that is the case you should be able to zero at 100 yards and have just enough up to get to or close to 1000 yards depending on what ammo you are shooting. So don't worry about the base.
 
Depends on what kind of shooting you want to do. You can shoot cheap hunting ammo or any of the match ammo from Federal, Corbon or Hornady. Do you reload?
 
It will be cheaper in the long run if you reload, but you will do fine with some good match ammo for a while. Federal Gold Medal Match is usually very accurate, as are a lot of the Black Hills match offerings.

http://www.black-hills.com/factoryNewR.htm
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx

If you want to learn about reloading, there is a whole section on it in the forum and there have been a few threads on it recently on what is needed to get started. Though for long range precision a few of the items needed for reloading will be a bit more specialized, as loading super accurate ammo is a bit more precise than just loading a bunch of rounds to go have fun with your pistol. If you really want to start reloading, and intend to use the ammo for precision long range shooting, you will be better off buying exactly what you need from the start. It will take a decent investment, but will be worth it down the road. It will also give you the ability to tune your ammo to your rifle for the distance you are shooting at, and even the conditions. I would also suggest doing a lot of reading over on 6mmbr.com, as you can find a ton of good info on the type of reloading you will need to do and it will save you from asking a lot of questions. Also, I would buy "The ABC'S of Reloading" as it is an excellent book that will give you all the basic knowledge of the concept of handloading.
To truly be effective at handloading for precision distance shooting you will need to keep meticulous records, recording everything from temperature and wind from the day you shoot, along with the number of rounds you have through your rifle and how many rounds through your rifle since you last cleaned it, and the specifics of the load you are using on that particular day. Most of this you should record even if you don't reload, such as ambient temp, wind, round count, round count since cleaning, what brand of ammo you are using, group size at what distance and any personal notes you may have that you want to remember. Every serious long range shooter know exactly how many rounds he has through his barrel and how long since he has cleaned it.

If you really want to look into reloading, I will give you a basic shopping list of what you will need. It isn't going to be the cheapest stuff by far, but it will not need to upgraded for a long time and will produce very accurate ammo once you have learned to do your part. You will have an advantage shooting only one type of ammo, as that alone will save you a lot of money in equipment. Just let me know if you want me to start a list and I will post a thread in the reloading section on precision reloading equipment, as while it is very similar to general reloading it is also a bit different and can use a few different tools.

Also, where you have a brand new rifle, you may want to look into David Tubb's Final Finish System to get your barrel broken in and shooting at it's max potential. What it is are bullets that have been coated in a series of fine abrasives from coarse to fine that will smooth any imperfections that are left in your barrel from the manufacturing process. It will improve the accuracy of your rifle, as well as make the barrel easier to clean and less likely to have deposits build up. I would call up his shop and ask about any precautions with use in a new rifle, but it will be a good investment either way. You may have to break the barrel in a bit before use, that I am unsure of. But I know from first hand experience that it works and works well.
http://www.davidtubb.com/ff_loaded_ammo.html
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/DTAC_FINAL_FINISH-308_FF_Ammo.html

He also sells loaded precision ammo as well. While not cheap, it will be top quality.
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/DTAC_308_Ammo-308_Precision_Ammo_50_Rounds.html

I would also consider a few of his books as well. David Tubb is one of the most accomplished shooters in the world, so I would imagine his books would have some very valuable info. His "Handloading for Competition" and "The Rifle Shooter" would be two that I looked into. They will most likely be very beneficial with helping you develop the proper technique and how to load precision ammo as well.
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/DVD_s_BOOKS-BOOKS.html

Have a good one
Kenny
 
Last edited:
Kenny ,
I'm glad to know you. It was a big help, I didn't know anything about to get a barrel broken. I will follow the instruction. I didn't buy any cleaning set yet, so it is a good guide for this too . It said "We like Sweet’s 7.62 Solvent with a
one caliber over sized brass brush to remove copper (keep the brush wet)"
Wet with what? Do I have to buy some gun oil?
 
Atti_Mac said:
Kenny ,
I'm glad to know you. It was a big help, I didn't know anything about to get a barrel broken. I will follow the instruction. I didn't buy any cleaning set yet, so it is a good guide for this too . It said "We like Sweet’s 7.62 Solvent with a
one caliber over sized brass brush to remove copper (keep the brush wet)"
Wet with what? Do I have to buy some gun oil?
Click to expand...

Wet with solvent. And yes you need to grab some gun oil. Every has their preference on oil, I just use 5w-30 Mobil 1, just like you would put in your car and mix it 3 parts oil to 1 part marvel mystery oil. Everybody has their own formula or brand, I just use what I use because it works for me. You can just go to the gun shop and grab any decent quality oil and probably be fine.

But with regards to the oversize brush, I believe they only use that for removing copper fouling prior to the Final Finish system. I wouldn't use anything oversize for general cleaning. I also use nylon brushes unless it is really caked in. I have given you a link to some good bore cleaning tips.
http://www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html
Now in regards to cleaning, I would suggest a one piece rod with a rod guide. That way you get less flex and the rod doesn't dig into your barrel. Or you can go with an Otis kit which uses a coated cable and is said to work very well. Always remove the bolt and clean from the breach and never from the muzzle. You shouldn't even let the rod come out of the muzzle unless you are using the Otis kit. The muzzle of your barrel is machined precisely and any nicks or dings will have a negative effect on accuracy, especially at 600+.

There is a lot to be learned about in regards to the complete rifle system. It is more than just shooting, as everything you do with your rifle will have some degree of effect on accuracy. From cleaning to when you sit down at the range, it all needs to be taken seriously to get maximum results. I am by no means the best or even good, and many are far more knowledgeable than I, but I do know a little and will tell you whatever I know. But I am sure you will surpass my knowledge in a short time once you start to hit the range and talk to more experienced folks. I read a lot, and try to take in whatever I can from it. I would suggest the same to you. Also, as this is an excellent forum and I will never say different, I would join the forum on 6mmbr.com. There are a lot of VERY experienced members over there in regards to long range precision shooting. German Salazar is often on the forum, as are many other top competitors. They all know a vast degree more than I. Those guys are out for one thing, max accuracy. They will be able to help a lot once you get going. But don't forget about the great guys here either, as many of the members here know a great deal as well.

One thing I would avoid is a coated cleaning rod, as they can have abrasive junk become embedded in the coating that will hurt your barrel more than the coating will help. A nice stainless or graphite rod with a bore guide will suit you fine, or a kit from Otis. One benefit of the Otis kit is it's very compact, as you don't have a 4 foot rod to deal with, though rods do have a few advantages. But it's much easier to bring an Otis kit to the range. An ideal situation would include one of each, but this stuff isn't exactly cheap, so choose what you feel will work best in your situation.

Here are a few links to some cleaning equipment companies. They have how to sections that will help you understand cleaning far better than I can explain it.
http://www.otisgun.com/
http://www.eabco.com/gun-cln.html
http://www.deweyrods.com/tips.htm
Also check out Kleen-bore, they make nice stuff as well.

Chuck Hawkes on cleaning.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/gun_cleaning.htm

I hope this helps, and as always just ask if you have any other questions.
Kenny
 
Last edited:
Kenny,
I had a problem the last few days to install a new stock. The trigger stuck after I installed a new B&C A2. Finally fixed, so now is perfect. I'm still confusing with a scope, and I don't know what to do. My monarch has 2 sets of target 1/4, and 1/8 MOA target turrets, and I still don't understand what is for.
I can sell now and get a new Vortex Viper 6.5-20X44 Mildot ,but that model has a capped turrets.. So I can't decide, because I never used a scope, so I don't get it what different makes to have those extra turrets, if has a nikoplex reticle. If the Viper has a mil-dot reticle why has no target turrets?
I know the question sounds dummy, but I tried to read different websites, but nobody explaining from the beginning. Because the English is my second language, and I never messed with rifle scopes, it is really hard to understand. :)
 
Last edited:
The 2 sets of turrets are a large diameter set, and a smaller one that fits under the caps, right? The scope itself is has 1/8 MOA adjustments - which determines how much each click moves your impact point, not the knobs. The different knobs are for different applications - if the rifle is going to be carried quite a bit, or is exposed to other circumstances that might cause something to hit the adjustment knobs and move your zero, than using the small knobs, and putting the covers over them will protect them. If the rifle is usually on the range, or not bumped around a lot, the larger knobs are easier to adjust. You can swap them out with the scope on the rifle, although I'd want to check my zero again afterwards.

I have a Monarch 4-16x on a Savage 12 - nice scope. I ended up with the BDC reticle - not my first choice, but not bad, and I couldn't pass up the deal.
 

Similar threads

Which 1911?
2
Replies
46
Views
2K
Gerbs54
G
Is this BS or the MA Holy Grail
Replies
20
Views
813
Yotacrawler
Yotacrawler
  • Poll
1st Gen Shield 9 - Sell or bubba?
Replies
29
Views
435
PappyM3
PappyM3
Finally did it
Replies
10
Views
545
edin508
edin508
Glock switch. How do you legally own one?
2
Replies
33
Views
6K
Picton
Picton
Back
Top Bottom