NO ONE (not you, not me, not the President) has the right/authority to give up or trade away anything so long as 2A exists. As someone posted on the Facebook, "The right to keep and bear arms is not contingent on the approval of individuals or politicians" This is something most people don't fully understand. An inalienable right is non-negotiable by its very definition. End of story.
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What would you give up to get what you wanted?
- Thread starter milktree
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These are wonderful responses, but what are YOU personally going to do about it? As someone once said, "talk is cheap."
Please lead by example. I am involved with the work that HK is leading.
What are you involved with?
Sent from my mobile device.
pre 1998 mass gun control act GOAL claimed 1 million + gun owners in mass in 1998 5000 gun owners protested out side the state house.....5000 out of 1 million ?
Yes we are dead in the water......My small circle around has colapsed=====
From one of my most gun friendly friends---"if they ban guns or make ammo so expensive i will go fishing"
Yes we are dead in the water......My small circle around has colapsed=====
From one of my most gun friendly friends---"if they ban guns or make ammo so expensive i will go fishing"
Okay. That is his right.
Is he a student of history? Does he agree with the principles that the constitution was founded on? The magna carta?
We must hang together...
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DrRansom
Instructor
Do you have any idea what the alternative is? Are you ok with your homeland and country falling into the hands of despots? Of generations of children being enslaved because you were a giant pussy when it came time for you to stand up? Are you okay with your progeny knowing that when strong men were needed to repel tyranny, you went on an internet gun forum and tried to tell people not to stand up? Even though history has shown what is happening has clearly happened before, to the ruin and torture of millions of ****ing people???
There's plenty of room for you in Europe. They like that kind of shit over there.
You missed the point entirely. I have a very good idea of what the alternative is. Do you have the skill sets necessary to fight and win, or are you another comptuter commando?
Ya know it's funny, I have supported the right to bear arms my whole life, and you have decided that I need to move to Europe. Don't you see, we are basically on the same side, but you are dissing me. We cannot even agree to be together, and you honestly think that if there were a "go-time" that we would all band together? Hell, you have decided that you are going to be my leader by telling me what I should do (move to Europe) and if that isn't social engineering, I don't know what is.
I know where I stand, Joe and I have the training and the heart, now whether old men can be consistently effective in the field is an open question (yes there have been notable exceptions, but warfare is a young persons game). Do you have the training? What are your credentials, do you even know what you are talking about, or would you fold like a cheap suit? It's not "Call of Duty" or some other kind of video game. Ever been in a fistfight, ever kill a medium to large size mammal?
According to the actuarial tables and family history I probably have about fifteen years left at most. You have a longer time allocated on this planet, so the question is are you tough enough, or just another keyboard commando who is long on rhetoric and ideology but very short on training and experience? A lot of guerrillas learn on the job, and a lot of them get killed learning and quite a few more drop out of the cause once they realize it interferes with their personal comfort. It would seem as if one of our society's biggest issues is that people are in "me-first" mode and rather unwilling to give up creature comforts. You may talk the game, but are you man enough to live it?
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I agree completely. They already have their agenda well planned, and any perception of conversations on the matter is just smoke and mirrors to make the people feel cozy that they are being "heard".
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I don't even understand that bullshit because I bought one of those right at Army Barracks here in MA. Granted I have a class A LTC, so I'm not a bit concerned, but if they are supposedly illegal to possess for anyone unlicensed, then what about all of the teens that go in and buy that stuff unknowingly?
Yeah, the laws are subject to "interpretation" by the police and DA. So, unless the law is written clear as a bell.....all bets are off. Lets say a new law is pass so that you get permanently disqualified if you are on a terrorist watch list. There was a 10 year old girl a few years back that was put on the terrorist watch list. She could not fly. BUT, there was no review process to remove her name from the list, even though it was obviously a mistake!
Or lets say a mentally disable person is disqualified, and some neighbor decides your collection of antique cars and parts in the back yard show you are mentally unstable, reports you to the cops, and some bureaucrat agrees and puts you on the list! They come grab your guns, put them in "bonded storage" (i.e. are stolen and lost), you hire some lawyer and after you pay for various mental health exams are finally returned to "not mentally unstable" . You are out the guns, and maybe $3000 just to get your god given rights back!
Or lets say a mentally disable person is disqualified, and some neighbor decides your collection of antique cars and parts in the back yard show you are mentally unstable, reports you to the cops, and some bureaucrat agrees and puts you on the list! They come grab your guns, put them in "bonded storage" (i.e. are stolen and lost), you hire some lawyer and after you pay for various mental health exams are finally returned to "not mentally unstable" . You are out the guns, and maybe $3000 just to get your god given rights back!
WallHack
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mark056, I understand most of the points you have made in this thread with the exception of giving up ALL semi-autos. I understand that is YOUR concession, but in my mind that makes no sense at all, and as has been said over and over, the semi-autos are just a stepping stone toward the ultimate goal anyway. Even if you have absolutely no use for semi-autos personally, you should never be willing to throw a particular segment of firearm under the bus because it doesn't suit your personal agenda. I could very well say that I don't shoot long range so I "have no use for" scoped bolt guns, so does that mean that it would be right for me to say "oh just take all scoped rifles" as my concession? I hope you can see my point, and not take it as a personal attack, because that is not my intent.
Your other points, though, are spot on inmo, and most people here and on other gun sites, youtube, etc., don't fully grasp what a full on resistance would entail. I do, and "think" I know what I would/will do if the time comes, but one point you made certainly causes me to have pause in my thought process. The part about rounding up the rest of my family and taking them to one of the new FEMA camps for advanced interrogation. That would never be an option for me, even though I would be willing to personally fight for, and die if necessary for what I believe is right. I do have most of the necessary skills and resolve to survive on my own if it ever came to that, but not to safeguard my entire family, who do not have that same resolve, or skill set.
Your other points, though, are spot on inmo, and most people here and on other gun sites, youtube, etc., don't fully grasp what a full on resistance would entail. I do, and "think" I know what I would/will do if the time comes, but one point you made certainly causes me to have pause in my thought process. The part about rounding up the rest of my family and taking them to one of the new FEMA camps for advanced interrogation. That would never be an option for me, even though I would be willing to personally fight for, and die if necessary for what I believe is right. I do have most of the necessary skills and resolve to survive on my own if it ever came to that, but not to safeguard my entire family, who do not have that same resolve, or skill set.
DrRansom
Instructor
Do you think if I did, I'd be talking about it on an internet gun forum?
I'm not your leader. Don't care to be. What I do know is that no one will ever be unified if people like you run around telling everyone we should make concessions to God-given rights because it's too scary if we don't.
And I don't care if you move to Europe either, I was just noting that your defeatist attitude would be much more accepted and commonplace over there. And, more importantly, less than needed here. If I _were_ a leader, why do you think I would say to someone who runs around like Eeyore telling everyone that it's no use for them to sack up and stand up for themselves and their families and children? As far as I'm concerned, if that is your attitude, then we are absolutely not on the same side.
There are a lot of young men out there now who are watching their rights crumble in front of them. They're scared, and rightly so. Having you talk like that is unhelpful, at best. You may not be of the age to do something - but that doesn't mean your despair should be forced onto anyone else. Things are hard enough as it is.
Oh, and by the way - cut the shit with the "are you man enough" garbage. What makes you think anyone in their right mind is going to justify how ****ing tough and cool they are to you, in public, on and internet gun forum?
DrRansom
Instructor
But as the older and (theoretically) more experienced generation, it's not his responsibility to go around chicken-littling everyone to what will happen if something bad happens and people stand up, but to tell everyone what will happen if they _don't_ stand up. People need to understand what will happen if they don't stand together.
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Agreed, but to his point, there are many on these various sites that have no thought given to "what comes next" if that line is crossed. Just because someone has a great kill record on COD doesn't mean they can survive in real guerrilla warfare. Also most (myself included) have not given much thought to the effect this would have on everyone connected to you (family, friends, relatives, etc.). You may be able to accept the fact that they could live without you in the event you were killed in a resistance effort, but could YOU live with the fact that EVERYONE you know and love could be tortured or jailed for YOUR actions? That is the hardest question for anyone to answer inmo.
Is that an order, to "cut the shit" along with the one to move to Europe? That's two orders from you now dear leader. Seems to me I'm getting all sizzle and no steak from you. I see bravado and big talk on this forum all the time.
You still don't get it...do you? I am merely pointing out what people will have to endure. If you really are sincere email me at [email protected] and tell me what your qualifications are. I'll even make it easy for you, email me at that address and I'll give you my phone number and you can tell verbally (I want to see how you waffle out of that one).
Sure there are plenty of young men who are watching their rights crumble in front of them. The problem is that there aren't enough of them, and with so many being what I call "Man-babies" growing up in a more collective society, many of them simply lack the fortitude to do what will need to be done.
Until I hear from you otherwise, I will work on the assumption that you are writing to me from your mother's basement, because that is exactly how you are coming across. I've offered to take our dialog to a whole new and more confidential level, but I am guessing that you will reply with some snarky reply that I am not worth the effort, yet you have taken the time and energy to reply to me.
The ball is in your corner Doctor, I offer my hand in friendship or at least collegial good will...the question is, come the time to support drastic measures, can you really afford to alienate people like me?
Oh yeah I'm all about compromise. Give us our second amendment back with absolutely zero restrictions across the board both state and federally, and we won't use it for it's intended purpose. I feel like it's a decent compromise.
A fair question. I have been involved with GOAL and to some degree the NRA, (more financial support to these groups). I recently bought a GOAL membership and an NRA membership for a friend of mine.
I also noted with interest how many of HKs responses were somewhat flippant. Gotta give the guy credit for trying though.
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DrRansom
Instructor
These ****ing go-time threads are complete garbage, and don't help anyone or anything. What makes somebody on the internet think I'm going to email or call him and tell him what my ****ing qualifications are? Are you out of your damn mind?
I totally agree. I don't have any hopes that Wayne LaPierre is going to get us anything, or that he's not going to sell us down the river.
Right, that's why we need to do the same thing. We take the 10 miles, but give an inch. I *am* willing to give an inch to get back 10 miles. Hell, I'd be willing to give an inch to get 10 feet. Once the public realizes that the 10 feet didn't make them less safe, the next 10 feet is easier.
Crikey, I hadn't heard about that, do you have a reference?
That's a perfect one! It closes the "gunshow loophole", which allows those of us who really want to make sure we're doing the right thing to be more sure of it, (the inch we give) and makes all of us safer when traveling (the mile we get)
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