Westminster R&G closed due to neighbor complaints

Mountain said:
As a somewhat outside observer originally from the South, I see much more of this stuff here than below the Mason Dixon Line. While down yonder it's the good ol' boy network, here it's sneaky, shady deals like what could be happening to Westminster R&G. I live close and the zoning in my town has been completely FUBAR. Developers pretty much get whatever they want. They are somehow able to get property re-zoned to suit their wants then skirt around the rules an average Joe must follow.

Does this Fortin tool have any history of ties to development or land purchase for profit?

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LOL, thanks
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I believe this is his business.

https://www.ybiz.com/westminster-post-beam-westminster-01473-1405-ma/
 
Another blow in - lived in San Diego previously.

The whole 'it's increased since it was okay' story is the same one they used on Wayne. Let me see, close more ranges, force people to join new ones, those ranges get more activity and then complain the shooting has increased - did I get that right?

I bet Fitchburg Sportsmans Club (in Ashburnham) is next. Lots of moonbats come from far and wide to hike Watatic, which abuts the range.
 
Anybody got a drone with a really good camera?

I'm sure that perk season (septic system testing) ends soon and if he has plans for development in the not too distant future the testing takes time as does the layout for septic, wells, house box locations and roadways. You would be looking for tracks left behind from excavators or backhoes as well as orange and blue flags on tree branches. Also be on the lookout for white observation pipes sticking out of the ground. Look at the town maps for known wetland locations as that is where you would find the blue flags. If someone is poking around in the dirt they leave many tracks.

You would want to do this before the buds on the trees break.

Might as well piss in his cereal bowl if given the chance. [grin]
 
That guy is a lunatic, but don't underestimate crazy. The crazies can throw their shit around until some of it sticks somewhere.

Given that his webpage was taken down immediately after being posted here, I'd guess he or someone he knows is watching this thread. (HI THERE!!) Keep a copy of those pages - he might even get them removed from the archive cache.

He's my suggestion after many years of local politics and large condo association politics: Do not engage with the crazy person. Engage only with the material and legal aspects of the issue. All of the players *know* that the person is crazy - but officials cannot say "that person is obviously crazy so we're going to dismiss their complaint", the officials need to be handed legal and rational reasons why the crazy person is wrong.
 
JJ4 said:
That guy is a lunatic, but don't underestimate crazy. The crazies can throw their shit around until some of it sticks somewhere.

Given that his webpage was taken down immediately after being posted here, I'd guess he or someone he knows is watching this thread. (HI THERE!!) Keep a copy of those pages - he might even get them removed from the archive cache.

He's my suggestion after many years of local politics and large condo association politics: Do not engage with the crazy person. Engage only with the material and legal aspects of the issue. All of the players *know* that the person is crazy - but officials cannot say "that person is obviously crazy so we're going to dismiss their complaint", the officials need to be handed legal and rational reasons why the crazy person is wrong.
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Good advices. But what if you do engage "only with the material and legal aspects of the issue," and he is correct in those aspects?
 
free said:
Good advices. But what if you do engage "only with the material and legal aspects of the issue," and he is correct in those aspects?
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“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”
 
Sounds like he doesn't play well with others...

WESTMINSTER -- Tensions between Selectmen Chairman John Fairbanks and Planning Board member Mike Fortin quickly escalated at Monday night's meeting of the Board of Selectmen.

The issue that prompted their heated exchange is a proposal that would allow the Planning Board to appoint associate members by majority vote to act on special permits in the case of absence, inability to act, conflict of interest or vacancy on the board.

However, neither Fortin nor Fairbanks publicly addressed that specific issue during the meeting.

Fortin said he had e-mailed the individual selectmen and Town Administrator Karen Murphy Monday morning seeking advice on a planning board issue.

Fairbanks told Fortin during the public comment period of Monday night's meeting that he couldn't comment on the issue until he had heard from Planning Board Chairman Andy Sears.

When Fortin persisted, Fairbanks motioned to Murphy and said, "That's it, call the cops. I've asked you to be quiet several times now. Is there something you don't understand about that?"

Ultimately, the Police Department was not called, and the meeting concluded after about an hour.
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http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/mobile/ci_16132094



jtnf said:
http://web.archive.org/web/20161105...ehouse.com/illegalshootingrange/exhibits.html
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My head hurts from reading that, the guy is obsessed over this to the point of suffering from some kind of mental health issue.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the the town residents, selectman, cops, etc, have gotten sick and tired of his shit a longtime ago.
 
From the sounds of Monday nights meeting it looks like Fortin doesn't want to follow the law. (as I know it) I thought PB members had to be in attendance at all hearings in order to vote on a SP. That is why they ask all members if they can commit to the time required for the hearings. I know for a fact they poll themselves for attendance here in town. Furthermore doesn't the BOS approve associate members only after the recommendation of the PB?
 
Asaltweapon said:
From the sounds of Monday nights meeting it looks like Fortin doesn't want to follow the law. (as I know it) I thought PB members had to be in attendance at all hearings in order to vote on a SP. That is why they ask all members if they can commit to the time required for the hearings. I know for a fact they poll themselves for attendance here in town. Furthermore doesn't the BOS approve associate members only after the recommendation of the PB?
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That was from 9/21/2010, which leads me to believe hes been a thorn in the towns side for some time.
 
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They are somehow able to get property re-zoned to suit their wants then skirt around the rules an average Joe must follow.
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If the town does not have 10% "affordable" house developers can just about dictate terms by threatening a 40B development.
 
JohnZ said:
Re-purpose the land as the Church of Westminsterwelcomesallrefugees.

I don't think chruches pay property tax, do they? Plus you get tons of children for the schools. Add in a minarette so the neighbors can listen to the islamic call to prayer several times a day.
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Screw that. Make it a Pastafarian retreat and issue a call for spaghetti every wed, and have everyone dress like pirates.
 
JJ4 said:
That guy is a lunatic, but don't underestimate crazy. The crazies can throw their shit around until some of it sticks somewhere.

Given that his webpage was taken down immediately after being posted here, I'd guess he or someone he knows is watching this thread. (HI THERE!!) Keep a copy of those pages - he might even get them removed from the archive cache.
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The FaceBook page is still up, looks like it was just one post he deleted...

eVR99MO.jpg
 
Dadstoys said:
Someone may want to look into if there is a developer that has expressed interest in the land as well.
It wouldn't even be close to the first time a ZB has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
It's mighty thin that one person bitching that's not even close would be good reason to do what they did considering the many years the club has been in operation.

Second, screw playing nice, if they want to be d-bags then have someone get an estimate of how many units of low income housing could be stuffed onto that land.
See how much they want to play then.
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If you so much as mention bringing a development to town the tax assessors would likely get wood over the thought of more tax revenue. Even if you don't follow through with development plans beyond a rumor some tax hungry MF will be lining up developers. The better alternatives is going to the town hall asking about permits for a land fill, pig farm, or a cemetery for witches and Satan worshipers.

The North Grafton Club hired a lawyer in Shrewsbury who wrote a letter to the town telling them they didn't have the authority to close the range and their BS ended swiftly. The person that complained had a few unfired bullets that he claimed he found on his roof and in his yard.
 
In a smaller town it might not be a bad idea to see if you can chat with another board member who might not be a loon and politely and calmly explain that if this guy is up to some shady shit , the rest might not want to get taken down with him.
Once they are aware the club is not backing down and this is going to be looked at from every angle and it's going to be in a very public manner, they might have a come to Jesus moment.
 
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If you so much as mention bringing a development to town the tax assessors would likely get wood over the thought of more tax revenue. Even if you don't follow through with development plans beyond a rumor some tax hungry MF will be lining up developers.
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Not with a 40B, especially if you say the emphasis will be on 2 BR apartments. The fear is schoolchildren. Economically diverse ones, even less attractive. Remember, the goal is to have affordable housing in another town, not yours.

A developer in Ashland (Megunko Hill) has been trying to get his project going for years, and used a 40B threat (his attorney actually said something close to "We are not going take the low road an threaten you with a 40B, but that is what will happen if we don't get the zoning change we want"). A big selling point of the 40B alternative was "one bedroom" and "no openings between rooms small enough to easily add a door". The idea was making it unattractive to couples with school age offspring.
 
Did not see this posted Mass range law exemption.
Link
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIII/TitleI/Chapter214/Section7B


Part III
Title I Chapter214 Section 7B
COURTS, JUDICIAL OFFICERS AND PROCEEDINGS IN CIVIL CASES
COURTS AND JUDICIAL OFFICERS EQUITYJURISDICTION
NOISE POLLUTION; SHOOTING RANGES; EXEMPTION FROM LIABILITY; HOURS OF OPERATION
Section 7B. Notwithstanding the provisions of any general or special law, rule or regulation to the contrary, no owner of a rifle, pistol, silhouette, skeet, trap, blackpowder, or other similar range shall be liable in any civil action or criminal prosecution in any matter relating to noise or noise pollution resulting from use of the range, provided said owner of the range was in compliance with any applicable noise control law, ordinance or by-laws in existence at the time of the construction of such range.
No owner shall be liable in any action for nuisance, and no court shall enjoin the use or operation of said range on the basis of noise or noise pollution, provided said owner was in compliance with any noise control law, ordinance or by-laws in existence at the time of the construction of the range.
The exemptions from liability and the immunities from prosecution provided in this section shall also extend to any owner who, in order to satisfy a requirement of law, regulation or by-law, relocates his range within the same parcel of land or a contiguous parcel of land, owned by him at the time that the commonwealth or its political subdivision commences enforcement of such a requirement or that the owner voluntarily complies with such a requirement. In order to maintain these exemptions from liability and immunities from prosecution, owners who relocate their ranges pursuant to the preceding sentence shall remain in compliance with the applicable noise control laws, ordinances or by-laws in existence at the time of the construction of the original range described in the first paragraph.
No standards in rules adopted by any state, city, or town agency for limiting levels of noise in terms of decibel level which may occur in the outdoor atmosphere shall apply to the ranges exempted from liability under the provisions of this section. Such ranges shall be prohibited from operating between the hours of ten o'clock post meridian and eight o'clock ante meridian unless otherwise allowed by the local governing body.
 
Dude is not using "noise" per se, but is going after "safety" and zoning "violations."

That's why his info website has pictures and flight paths, and pictures of houses from an archery range, and people pouring concrete.

The aphorism about what to do when neither the facts, nor the law, are on your side is where he's at.
 

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