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UPDATE: Police RAID house of gun-toting St. Louis lawyer couple and confiscate the AR-15

Said idiot then sued the instructor claiming that if the instructor had taught him better he wouldn't have shot his BIL.
This is the problem with charging for classes.

If you do it as volunteer work, your general liability insurance will probably cover you and in many cases the clubs will as well (Ive seen club policies that cover the club, officers & directors thereof, and anyone acting on behalf of the club).

As soon you charge you can trigger "business exclusion" on your policy. So you either need to go big to be able to cover overhead like insurance or just teach for the benefit of your club.

Also watch out for "claims made" vs. "occurence based" policies.
 
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News articles: "But they sue a bunch of people all the time!"

News flash: personal injury lawyers are litigious a**h***s.
Yes, but some are litigious a**h***s on behalf of clients. The McCloskey's are litigious a**h***s for themselves. JHC, the guy sued his dad! Multiple times! Over a birthday card. And for defamation. His sister, too, and also sued his brothers. What a winner. You always know when they get along so well with family. Oh, his house? Obtained with lawsuit. Sued the trustees of the association multiple times. In fact, that triangle area of lawn next to the front of the house? Suing the trustees for possession by SQUATTERS RIGHTS. Literally, he says he's been TRESPASSING on the land himself so long he's entitled to it. Almost wish the BLM said they squat better and were now entitled to it. Of course, not the only time he's done that, also sued under SQUATTERS RIGHTS (more of him TRESPASSING) to get more land (0.4 acres) from a neighbor at another house.

Sources here. Sorry if this is brought up in another thread, only read this one. Not ideal poster children for gun rights.

He's probably being railroaded by the DA, but I'm not sure it could've happened to a sweeter couple. There's probably more to it than just the guns. He makes such good friends with the neighbors (He said he'd pointed a gun at one before). And NONE of this would have happened if they'd had a lick of sense.
 
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Yes, but some are litigious a**h***s on behalf of clients. The McCloskey's are litigious a**h***s for themselves. JHC, the guy sued his dad! Multiple times! Over a birthday card. And for defamation. His sister, too, and also sued his brothers. What a winner. You always know when they get along so well with family. Oh, his house? Obtained with lawsuit. Sued the trustees of the association multiple times. In fact, that triangle area of lawn next to the front of the house? Suing the trustees for possession by SQUATTERS RIGHTS. Literally, he says he's been TRESPASSING on the land himself so long he's entitled to it. Almost wish the BLM said they squat better and were now entitled to it. Of course, not the only time he's done that, also sued under SQUATTERS RIGHTS (more of him TRESPASSING) to get more land (0.4 acres) from a neighbor at another house.

Sources here. Sorry if this is brought up in another thread, only read this one. Not ideal poster children for gun rights.

He's probably being railroaded by the DA, but I'm not sure it could've happened to a sweeter couple. There's probably more to it than just the guns. He makes such good friends with the neighbors (He said he'd pointed a gun at one before). And NONE of this would have happened if they'd had a lick of sense.
Sounds like he's out liberaling the liberals with their own playbook.
 
You're right. I couldn't find anything that says ((the mayor lives in the gated community)).

I read a lot of things that implied she does, but nothing that actually said so.
^This.

So, because the public roads were closed (by police?) they had to find another way through.
Yet another unexplored angle is whether the public roads that were closed
were precisely the shortest paths to the Mayor's house,
and that they were closed precisely to keep the mob away from there.

From the ariel picture of their property and the picture of the residents and rioters confrontation, the porch is ~100' from the property line and the rioters look like they are within maybe 20' of the porch.
The only part of the house that's ~100' from the property line
is the east face, which is ~90' from the high wall bordering Kingshighway Blvd.
I speculate you've only seen photos of rioters ~27' south of the "porch".

Look at the overhead of the property and compare it to the video.
They were well off the sidewalk and right up to the stairs of the house that the couple was standing on.
The closest thing I've seen yet to what you describe
is a photo of one Black guy facing away from the house,
with one of his two heels on the lawn, and the other one on the sidewalk.
Which is not "well off the sidewalk".

Just so I know the rules, are all the members of a gated community required to give permission before a non-member enters the shared parts of the property? ... I think the answer is “no”.
...
It’s possible, although highly unlikely, that someone who lives on the street is sympathetic to the BLM cause and invited them to cut through. But the McCloskeys couldn’t have known if that was or wasn’t the case.
Boy have you got that right, at least in Mass:

In 1943, the SJC held in Commonwealth v. Richardson, 313 Mass. 632
that proselytes who rang a random apartment's remote doorbell
and got buzzed in to the common hallway, were allowed
to wander up and down the hallways and leaflet apartments.
A tenant let them in, and the landlord had no right to tell them to GTFO.

Firearms were seized without due process ...
There's a photo of the search warrant in NES.

They were almost certainly trespassing, I’d bet my house on it.
...
Add to that the McClosky’s history of suing everyone (for their own gain, not just for their clients) and the fights about what they own they’ve had with the HOA, and their neighbors don’t have anything nice to say about them, ...
You've highlighted another great angle.

The McCloskeys may have already been so hated in the neighborhood,
that in the highly unlikely event that any rioters get jacked up for trespass
long after the fact, it would probably not be hard to find some neighbor
who would be willing to testilie that they invited that individual in.

Again, this false equivalency is absurd. So your several dozen guests might just break a gate, ...
The way the gate is broken pointing inward implies to me
that it was vandalized by someone who already gained entrance.

What a fantastic photo! Thank you!

That looks like the portal at the midpoint of the north border of the community.
The gate that is only a tenth of a mile from the mayor's house...

Insert meme: "They chose poorly"
If (if) the cops closed public streets to route the rioters away from the Mayor's house,
they may not have chosen badly at all. They didn't succeed in keeping the rioters away,
but they slowed them down, and they generated Yet Another Gun Control incident
in the process.

I can't find the picture now - but if you go look at the aerial shots of the McKloskey's property - there is a driveway that looks like it runs across one side of the house - over to what looks like maybe a garage behind the house - and then it goes out to the street. Well some of the pictures I saw looked like some of the protestors were indeed on the property - because they appeared to be on that driveway - which would put them squarely on their property.
That driveway is up against the north and west sides of their personal property.
I have not seen any photos of any protestors on that whatsoever.

Who owns the private road? I'm guessing that in a situation like that - all of the homeowners on the street belong to some sort of condo association type thing - which "owns" the road. The McKloskeys probably pay a sizeable fee every year to maintain that "private" road. So technically they may not "own" it - but they are definitely probably shareholders.
The nature of their ownership is probably a "tenancy in common",
which is an actual thing.

2. They destroyed the gate that the no tresspassing/private property/etc signs were posted on to gain entry
Nope; there's video of protestors streaming through the gate undamaged.
Someone vandalized it later.

3. the armed mob proceeded onto the property of the couple in question and threatened them
So far I've seen a photo of one guy with one heel of his sneaker
on their personal property (lawn).
The video I've seen is utter chaos,
but the mob seems to be running their mouths while staying on the sidewalk.

There was one photo, i can't find, that shows a few of the protesters on the lawn.
I can totally believe it happened in the course of the riot,
but I haven't seen a photo of it.

Which part of the locked and posted/no trespassing gate was ambiguous?
Where's your evidence that the gate was locked?
The popular video shows a cat-herder wearing a suit
was holding open a gate that looks undamaged.

Normal procedure: Due Process
If no charges were made then no crime was suspected and therefore there is no legal standing for the taking of property, even temporarily (yes there are times where a temporary seizure is proper but this isn't one of them)
Probable cause is sufficient to get a search warrant - "charges" are not necessary.

She acted in a manner consistent with an untrained, inexperienced person who is in deep fear for their personal safety - Just like the average person on the street.
Actually, I'll bet she was so scared that only two things kept her from busting a cap:
  1. She's a big-time lawyer, and knew how bad the legal consequences would be if she shot into a crowd.
  2. The handgun allegedly doesn't work, and may not even have been loaded.
I'm sure she was terrified. But considering how she was waving that pistol around,
I think that only her legal experience kept her from declaring Go Time.

Nope, that was the main group that went the RIGHT WAY, down a public road.
That photo of a (rent-a-cop?) smoking a cigarette, holding a gate open
looks to me like the rioters who hassled the McCloskeys (not some hypothetical "main group")
got all the way through the development by the shortest route,
and ended up on a public street a tenth of a mile from the Mayor's house.

Does anybody know where the NRA is on this topic?
35wzgv.jpg
(And considering the parties in this horror show, that may be prudent).
 
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Yes, but some are litigious a**h***s on behalf of clients. The McCloskey's are litigious a**h***s for themselves. JHC, the guy sued his dad! Multiple times! Over a birthday card. And for defamation. His sister, too, and also sued his brothers. What a winner. You always know when they get along so well with family. Oh, his house? Obtained with lawsuit. Sued the trustees of the association multiple times. In fact, that triangle area of lawn next to the front of the house? Suing the trustees for possession by SQUATTERS RIGHTS. Literally, he says he's been TRESPASSING on the land himself so long he's entitled to it. Almost wish the BLM said they squat better and were now entitled to it. Of course, not the only time he's done that, also sued under SQUATTERS RIGHTS (more of him TRESPASSING) to get more land (0.4 acres) from a neighbor at another house.

Sources here. Sorry if this is brought up in another thread, only read this one. Not ideal poster children for gun rights.

He's probably being railroaded by the DA, but I'm not sure it could've happened to a sweeter couple. There's probably more to it than just the guns. He makes such good friends with the neighbors (He said he'd pointed a gun at one before). And NONE of this would have happened if they'd had a lick of sense.

Litigious a**h***s without a lick of sense have rights.

That's what the Constitution says, anyway, when last I checked. Our side can't pick our poster children, and that's the point: we shouldn't want to. RKBA applies to everyone, not just the ones it's convenient for, nor the ones where the optics are ideal.

More power to the McCloskeys. It takes all kinds.
 
... both of the lawyers have made statements that the mob was armed
(Well, at least that's their story and they're sticking to it).

Every single last one of the individuals in the mob is a criminal for breaking and entering, ...
There's no such thing in Missouri.

And the thing that B&E became in Missouri (burglary)
requires entering a building or inhabitable structure,
not swanning about on a sidewalk or lawn.

... a great many of them based on comments make it clear they intended to do further damage to private property and the homeowners
The rioters are lucky that they are a totally protected class.
(Social justice warrior).
Many were making more violent statements
than what Roger Stone got jacked up for...
 
That's what the Constitution says, anyway, when last I checked. Our side can't pick our poster children, and that's the point: we shouldn't want to. RKBA applies to everyone, not just the ones it's convenient for, nor the ones where the optics are ideal.
I'll agree, and you can pencil in similar reasoning for whenever the ACLU or whomever defends McVeigh or the latest mass murderer that's well known to be guilty.
More power to the McCloskeys. It takes all kinds.
I'm not sure I have to chant "more power" though. I guess I don't have a soft spot for people who advocate trespassing to sue for land under adverse possession, then get all bent out of shape when someone trespasses against them. At some point you do want to have the case with the good optics, that you can go to the mat for and stand a good chance of helping your cause.
 
Tarded, yes, mob, no. Does Milkyshorts push through a a locked gate, with No Trespassing signs on his little walks? Shout at the homeowners and come up on their lawns to harass them? But...."he's white", so no one minds. Sheesh,,,,yes tarded.

Don’t be that a**hole. If you can’t make your case without descending to schoolyard taunts just stfu.
 
That photo of a (rent-a-cop?) smoking a cigarette, holding a gate open
looks to me like the rioters who hassled the McCloskeys (not some hypothetical "main group")
got all the way through the development by the shortest route,
and ended up on a public street a tenth of a mile from the Mayor's house.
Wrong, that was from the SECOND time they were visited. But that time they chose correctly to remain on public property.
LOTS of supposition in your post defending SHITHEADS that were tresspassing and had been known to damage property and physically threatened the home owners, their property, and their pets.
 
Don’t be that a**hole. If you can’t make your case without descending to schoolyard taunts just stfu.
Who asked your opinion? I don't really give a shit what a 10 year member that is too cheap to go Green has to say! No go away. :p
 
She spent the entire time with the gun pointed at the people with her finger on the trigger. She deserves to lose her guns. They did not represent anywhere near the threat that justifies that.

The gun shouldn't be pointing at someone with your finger on the trigger unless you have decided to fire.

Naah, that Walther has such a heavy trigger it can't fire without a deliberate squeeze. :) The only ones who did anything wrong in this incident are (1) the rioters, who if they had taken one more step toward the couple should have paid the price; and (2) the corrupt DA.
 
I had a friend stationed there in the 70's .
He said the little buggers would take a pot shot at them now and then.
Don't know if that still happens.

Back in the 70's, we had guys getting KILLED on the DMZ in Korea. During my time in the US Army, which preceded my USMC time, a couple of US Army officers were killed there. For the whole story, you can google "Operation Paul Bunyan". It is well documented.
 
You guys are all letting your opinions get ahead of yourselves. I know this is just a forum thread but still.

These people defended their home. They probably could've shot any one of these protesters. Who knows how violent it got or could've gotten. Fact is = it didn't get violent because they defended their homes with their legal weapons. As a person who is proud of the 2nd amendment, I'm proud of this outcome. Surprising that their gun was confiscated but this could absolutely be a legal protocol police take to ensure that these weapons used (even though they didn't shoot) are in fact legal to own/posses. If someone ever pulled a gun on me in public, for whatever reason, I'd be glad that the police ensure it's legal to own/possess for that person/anyone.

No charges were made. Therefore no rights violated. I'm sure they own other guns, and although it can be viewed as wrong their guns were taken away I'm sure the police wouldn't allow their lives to be endangered. I admit that portion of my reply MAY be uneducated/naive.
Somewhere, our mAss overlords are smiling. Successful programming achieved.
 
Neil I thought that they switched lawyers because their original lawyer said he had a conflict of interest as he somehow became a witness to something. I’m pretty sure that’s the case at least.
That makes sense since i read that he took possession of her pistol. My opinion of his conduct is further reinforced!
 
“... shall not be infringed”

Unless wifey has poor trigger discipline then like totally infringe.

This, lots and lots of cucks own firearms apparently. 99% of the people ripping on the McCloskys would be inside wetting the bed because they would be too scared to even handle their firearm for fear of "doing the wrong thing".
 
Back in the 70's, we had guys getting KILLED on the DMZ in Korea. During my time in the US Army, which preceded my USMC time, a couple of US Army officers were killed there. For the whole story, you can google "Operation Paul Bunyan". It is well documented.
I posted this a little earlier. I was there when the incident happened. I was two villages away on pass when the alert sirens went off and myself and two buddies jumped in a taxi back to the compound. Spent the next ten days working up pre planned artillery data from various firing points on NK targets. Didn't get two hours sleep the whole time. We had secure commo direct to the pentagon as we were direct support artillery for the Joint Security Area at Pan Mun Jom.
I managed to cat nap for a few minutes out in the field with the phone to the gun batteries against my ear. The ground started rumbling and I looked out of the tent and saw about 100 Huey's coming over the horizon. High up in the sky were B52 bombers leaving contrails and there was a tank or artillery piece every 300 meters in every direction you could see from my location. We were on DEFCON 2, and the Korean War almost resumed that morning. All it would have taken was one shot from NK and the war was on.
Captain Bonifas was my fire direction officer's West Point roommate. He took his death very hard. Captain Bonifas only had a few days left on his tour when he was killed.
 
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I posted this a little earlier. I was there when the incident happened. I was two villages away on pass when the alert sirens went off and myself and two buddies jumped in a taxi back to the compound. Spent the next ten days working up pre planned artillery data from various firing points on NK targets. Didn't get two hours sleep the whole time. We had secure commo direct to the pentagon as we were direct support artillery for the Joint Security Area at Pan Mun Jom.
I managed to cat nap for a few minutes out in the field with the phone to the gun batteries against my ear. The ground started rumbling and I looked out of the tent and saw about 100 Huey's coming over the horizon. High up in the sky were B52 bombers leaving contrails and there was a tank or artillery piece every 300 meters in every direction you could see from my location. We were on DEFCON 2, and the Korean War almost resumed that morning. All it would have taken was one shot from NK and the war was on.
Captain Bonifas was my fire direction officer's West Point roommate. He took his death very hard. Captain Bonifas only had a few days left on his tour when he was killed.

13F FTW.

The whole incident gets a chapter in Atkinson's The Long Grey Line. Bonifas was a member of the class Atkinson wrote about, and I suppose your FDO was also.
 
My prediction is, They'll beat it, sue the DA for malicious prosecution and the DA will lose her job and very possibly end up in federal prison for denying them of their constitutional rights.

I'm troubled that they didn't go to the federal courts over the seizure. My only conclusions are that they either know they'll beat this handily, or that (like many) they just don't care that much about going to court over 2A.

Or they've got another AR, know they'll get this one back eventually, and don't feel like suing on principle. But that makes no sense, given their past behavior.
 
I'm troubled that they didn't go to the federal courts over the seizure. My only conclusions are that they either know they'll beat this handily, or that (like many) they just don't care that much about going to court over 2A.

Or they've got another AR, know they'll get this one back eventually, and don't feel like suing on principle. But that makes no sense, given their past behavior.

All in due time. They'll have their guns back and that DA disbarred and in an orange jumpsuit before this is over.

This is a blatantly obvious, racially motivate and politically motivated persecution and prosecution, and anyone with half a brain can see it.
 
All in due time. They'll have their guns back and that DA disbarred and in an orange jumpsuit before this is over.

This is a blatantly obvious, racially motivate and politically motivated persecution and prosecution, and anyone with half a brain can see it.
Just like happened to Hildebeast and dick Holder!
 
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