I was at the JFK Federal Building about a month ago and I noticed an armed guard carrying a Ruger Wheel Gun. I was taken back by it and was surprised there are still guys (although few) who prefer the low capacity and high reliability of wheel guns. Gun looked great but I'd hate to see the poor bastard in a shootout.
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Uniformed cop carrying a 1911?
- Thread starter Big_Red
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I was just there the other day and noticed the wheel guns too. seems a lot of security agenices, armored car services, etc still use revolvers. I wonder if security guards (presumably) not being exempt from the 10rd mag limit effects this.
Richard impresses me as a "gun person" who is Chief of Police. I get the impression that he thinks "out of the box" and sincerely cares about his troops.
Did the community leaders approve this change?
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
These are "rent-a-cops" and I doubt that their superiors trust them with a semi-auto!
Last time I was in the JFK Building I had a verbal run-in with one of their supervisors whose IQ barely exceeded his shoe size.I think he was referring to his department.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Security companies can be weird. I worked for one place that only allowed regular guards to carry 9mm or .40, but supervisors could carry any caliber, so long as they could use Federal Hydrashok or EFMJ ammo in it.
Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of companies out in Boston have guys working as "Boston Specials" (security guards with special police powers on their property). Under Rule 400, Boston specials can only carry .38 revolvers, so the company sets that as their policy, even if the guard isn't a "Boston Special," even if they don't work in Boston.
But the biggest thing with most guys is price. You can pick up a used duty sized revolver for a lot cheaper than a semi (in most cases), so guys will go cheap to meet the minimum requirement to work. I've worked with guards who carry guns that they loaded out of the box and never fired...guns that they clean once per year, even after multiple range days and time spent in the rain...damaged guns that don't work right due to their finances...and in one case, a guy with warrants for his arrest was carrying a gun without a license, while working as a security guard. People are people, and just because the job requires a gun doesn't mean they're a gun guy.
Each police department sets different rules and policies in place for their officers, rules that are often written by people without being thought through. I know of a PD in Mass. that doesn't allow officers to take their duty weapon home, so at every shift change, there's two shifts of cops loading and unloading their guns in the station, per department policy.
There's still PD's in the US that only issue a pistol and handcuffs, no baton, OC, taser or other force options, just arrest them or shoot them.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Other departments issue the cheapest guns and holsters they can find to save money, putting cops lives at risk in every situation they're in.Think of it this way. The duty weapon policies of Mass. police departments are as varied and as confusing as the LTC issuing policies of Mass. police departments.
Oh, and BTW, I've only heard of one security company in Massachusetts that issues a duty weapon, and it's one that does contracts for Federal properties in and around Boston (they issue a .38 revolver), but I can't remember the company's name off the top of my head.
The line I got from my agency is the whole "if you get hit and your partner runs dry, he can pick up your weapon and continue the fight with a weapon he/she's familiar with." I'd still rather have the option to carry my personal SA 1911.
We went with the HnK P2000 which has some adjustments to it to fit handsize. Our shootouts don't fit the norm; long range, multiple targets with longarms. The good side is I was always taught to use the sidearm to get to a longarm.
Sorry for the PC, I took a hit of the koolaide a while back, it's still working its' way out of my system.
We went with the HnK P2000 which has some adjustments to it to fit handsize. Our shootouts don't fit the norm; long range, multiple targets with longarms. The good side is I was always taught to use the sidearm to get to a longarm.
Sorry for the PC, I took a hit of the koolaide a while back, it's still working its' way out of my system.
I think their logic makes sense in a situation like you described, but how many officer involved shootings involve such a situation? I'm willing to bet it's not many.
IMO, LEO's should be allowed to carry whatever they're most comfortable with, since not everyone likes Glocks, 1911's, etc.
But what do I know?
The FRB Police are Federal Police. They have UZI's , Shotguns, AR's and last I checked they had Sig .45's. They also have a really nice indoor shooting range (if you like to use frangible ammo)
They do. 5in Barrel, Double Stack (14+1) Para LDA's
Also too, there are logistical and interoperability issues. (spare parts, uniform training standards etc) In some departments, officers must purchase their weapons from an approved list, and in still other departments do not purchase sidearms but lease them from the manufacturer. S&W, for instance has a leasing program.
Mark056
Many private security firms still use revolvers. The guards there are private contract. The reason for this is ease of training and less maintenance overall, plus simplicity of the manual of arms and the fact that Ruger has a very attractive institutional pricing program for security firms and public safety agencies.
Why would you hate to "see the poor bastard in a shootout?" I am not going to try to revive the old revolver vs. semi-auto debate, but accuracy is deadly, not "spray and pray." The revolver is still a very viable weapons platform, and frankly, many who view sidearms simply as tools (like most LEOs) might be better served by revolvers.
Like Clint Smith says "Revolvers are real guns."
Mark056
Indeed they do have AR's. I see one sitting on the window sill in their truck entry/inspection booth.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Indeed they do have AR's. I see one sitting on the window sill in their truck entry/inspection booth.
They actually still have a few m1918 BAR's in the armory...
Joe G
NES Member
This is the first I've heard of a Sig 1911. From googling it looks like they've been around for a few years. So I'm guessing the reason I haven't heard about them is that they're not on the approved list?
Actually, there is one on the list. Dunno how long it has been there: http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/Approved Firearms Roster 04-2009.pdf
Sig has had a number of problems with their 1911. Dunno if those problems are behind them, but even folks on the Sig Forum seem to have issues with them: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/66710382
Add to that the fact that it requires a specific holster (won't fit into a standard 1911 holster) and that reduces the attraction for me.
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I work in the same area.
Do you remember last summer when the oil truck spilled about 100 gallons of fuel? I had to do some work in the Fed Reserve; because of the spill the Fed Reserve went on some sort of high security. They had at least 3 people in the lobby with M4's, and at least 5 other armed gaurds with pistols/MP5's. The lobby was packed with guns, it was definetly a weird feeling. There were dressed with heavier gear like vest's and helmets. I was told in Fed Reserve and the Hancock sky scraper that if helipcopters/planes fly too close to the building they have a number to call and the building security can get ahold of the proper people to get an answer of why the craft are so close.
May not be a big deal to most but I find it really interesting.
Do you remember last summer when the oil truck spilled about 100 gallons of fuel? I had to do some work in the Fed Reserve; because of the spill the Fed Reserve went on some sort of high security. They had at least 3 people in the lobby with M4's, and at least 5 other armed gaurds with pistols/MP5's. The lobby was packed with guns, it was definetly a weird feeling. There were dressed with heavier gear like vest's and helmets. I was told in Fed Reserve and the Hancock sky scraper that if helipcopters/planes fly too close to the building they have a number to call and the building security can get ahold of the proper people to get an answer of why the craft are so close.
May not be a big deal to most but I find it really interesting.
My LEO grandfather carried a .38 revolver for many many years as a duty weapon, and a .357 snub as an off duty gun. He owned guns until the day he died, and although he liked a couple of semi-auto's for the range, his carry/defense handguns were always revolvers.
OK, so that's two that I know of now.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
That really doesn't sound so good. I'm disappointed in Wackenhut... at least train them for their sake, and make them qualify for our sake...![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
Well, it depends on the location. Wackenhut also provides guards for Nuclear Power Plants (Vermont Yankee for instance) and those guards get a fair amount of range training with ARs. This I know because they rent our range for it. In exchange for having the range all day (for about 30 days a year), they built us a new pavilion, shooting stations and a porta potty. The downside is we can't use it when they're there. Still it's not very often but I'd estimate that every guard gets 3-5 full days of training. Perhaps more.
Then on the low end, you've got the flunkys in bank branches who would probably run at the sign of a robber (like I would if all I had was a .38 and I was facing a good robbery team with automatic weapons-think "Heat")
While I'm glad to hear that they train the guys guarding out nuclear plants, I feel like our BofA "guards" would actually have more of a probability of needing to use their weapons than a nuclear plant guard. Bank robberies happen more than you'd think, although one would hope that a wackenhut guard would be enough of deterrent, but with some of the crazies out there, I'm not so sure a guard will stop them anymore...
Thankfully most robberies are an unarmed guy passing a note and leaving with an envelope full of money. Takeover robberies are a whole different ball game, and one I wouldn't want to get involved in.
At least the guards in Heat survived, I was thinking more along the lines of Point Break.
