Trump gun control, update post 529 Trump No Longer Backing “Red Flag” Law, Background Check Changes

M60 said:
You're welcome to come shoot with me anytime. My ammo, my guns. Stay in school and shoot too.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your generosity. While I certainly have some ammo to shoot and train with, I’ve nowhere near what most would consider a starting point. I’m not overly worried, yet. However, the realization that certain events and election cycles can and have previously impacted ammunition availability, caught me slightly off guard. It was enough to prompt me to do an actual inventory to determine exactly where I stand. I don’t think it’s carelessness, as someone mentioned, but perhaps naïveté. I might regret asking but, if things get ugly, what are we talking about? Empty Walmart cases and sky-high prices? Do people just start hoarding everything on the just in case? Can’t say I blame them. If I had the means, I’d probably do the same thing. Rational conversation would appearto take a back seat after events like we’ve just had.
 
Last edited:
Tinkermatic said:
I appreciate your generosity. While I certainly have some ammo to shoot and train with, I’ve nowhere near what most would consider a starting point. I’m not overly worried, yet. However, the realization that certain events and election cycles can and have previously impacted ammunition availability, caught me slightly off guard. It was enough to prompt me to do an actual inventory to determine exactly where I stand. I don’t think it’s carelessness, as someone mentioned, but perhaps naïveté. I might regret asking but, if things get ugly, what are we talking about? Empty Walmart cases and sky-high prices? Do people just start hoarding everything on the just in case? Can’t say I blame them. If I had the means, I’d probably do the same thing. Rational conversation would appearto take a back seat after events like we’ve just had.
Click to expand...

To answer your your two questions: Yes, empty shelves and sky high prices.....it just happened a few years ago.

"Rationality" regarding one's ammo supply means trying to stay one step ahead of the predictable shortages.

The only conversation you need to have is with yourself, and it should not include the words "should I buy".... it should be "how much can I afford to buy this week/month".
 
I'm going the other way on this. There will be a lot of shouting, lot of anger, lot of momentum for new gun laws and protests against gun owners from the left. Though I don't think it's going to go very far. As with other times this has happened it will eventually fall the last page of the news and fizzle out. There are a lot of grass root Rs from deep south states that constituents would string up if they voted for gun control. Because of that I don't see the Senate voting for any major gun control bills. It's basically political suicide for many politicians. If there is anything we can count on it's the ability for a politician to only be concerned about keeping his/her seat in Congress.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
I'm going the other way on this. There will be a lot of shouting, lot of anger, lot of momentum for new gun laws and protests against gun owners from the left. Though I don't think it's going to go very far. As with other times this has happened it will eventually fall the last page of the news and fizzle out. There are a lot of grass root Rs from deep south states that constituents would string up if they voted for gun control. Because of that I don't see the Senate voting for any major gun control bills. It's basically political suicide for many politicians. If there is anything we can count on it's the ability for a politician to only be concerned about keeping his/her seat in Congress.
Click to expand...
I agree..........now Mr.Bloomberg walks into the room.....
 
My guess is the Democratic-media-firearm prohibition bloc will fall out of love with ERPOs in short order or claim they are far from enough.
Trump says he wants to take guns away from people in crisis. Will that work?
In his response to mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, President Trump called for an expansion of state laws that temporarily prevent someone in crisis from buying or possessing a gun.

A flurry of states have recently passed such laws, known as extreme risk protection orders. They allow a court to intervene when someone shows warning signs of impending violence. Although the laws are widely supported by gun control groups and mental health advocates, others note that the measures alone won’t solve the nation’s gun violence epidemic.

Speaking Monday from the White House, Trump said the shooter in the Parkland, Fla., massacre last year “had many red flags against him, and yet nobody took decisive action; nobody did anything. … We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process.”
Click to expand...
Trump backs 'red flag' gun laws. What do they actually do?
Among the solutions floated by President Donald Trump: red flag gun laws.

"We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms and that if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process," Trump said in televised remarks from the White House on Monday morning. "That is why I have called for red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection orders."
Click to expand...
The President did not elaborate further on what he meant in Monday's speech, so it is not clear if he was proposing a federal red flag law, endorsing an expansion of red flag laws across more states or simply advocating for better enforcement of the laws currently on the books.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
more does need to be done to abolish gun control. let people defend themselves. might make these idiots think twice and if they don't then hopefully any loss of life is kept to a minimum as in just the perp is dispatched.
 
Gun Free Zones and psychotropic drugs all seem to be a recurring theme in these. Maybe not all, but a damn high percentage if it was random.

Two things that never get addressed.

How about this, you can declare any place you want GFZ, you also have to provide armed security and access control.

If you go on these drugs, you get Yellow Flagged (a pause of 3 or 6 months) until you get stabilized and can buy a gun.

In the interest of ‘compromise’ do away with NFA and reciprocity.
 
GM-GUY said:
If you go on these drugs, you get Yellow Flagged (a pause of 3 or 6 months) until you get stabilized and can buy a gun.
Click to expand...

Lol.

On whose say-so? Those doctors most NESers won’t even talk about guns with?

Now you’re trusting them to put their necks out and certify someone can carry? No gun owner would ever seek mental health treatment again.

Linking a civil right to your mental health status is a VERY slippery slope. I get that mental health is a component of all these “solutions,” but I’m opposed to anything that would prevent people from seeking help if they need it.

And I’m not sure there’s a way to reconcile the two.
 
Tinkermatic said:
I appreciate your generosity. While I certainly have some ammo to shoot and train with, I’ve nowhere near what most would consider a starting point. I’m not overly worried, yet. However, the realization that certain events and election cycles can and have previously impacted ammunition availability, caught me slightly off guard. It was enough to prompt me to do an actual inventory to determine exactly where I stand. I don’t think it’s carelessness, as someone mentioned, but perhaps naïveté. I might regret asking but, if things get ugly, what are we talking about? Empty Walmart cases and sky-high prices? Do people just start hoarding everything on the just in case? Can’t say I blame them. If I had the means, I’d probably do the same thing. Rational conversation would appearto take a back seat after events like we’ve just had.
Click to expand...

You pretty much nailed the what happens part. The speed with which panic buying happened after Sandy Hook was mind blowing. The next morning my local gun shop was standing room only. All AR's were gone along with all the ammo. All 9mm, .45acp. and .308 ammo were gone as well as every double stack handgun and 1911's. It was crazy. There wasn't one guy there that I knew. It was out of town guys panic buying.
 
Last edited:
CatSnoutSoup said:
Trump’s opposition will not thank him for any “gun control” he might support.

Conflict is their bread and butter...



:emoji_tiger:
Click to expand...


I'd like to think that this is only the morally bankrupt Left that does this. But I've contributed to many campaigns over the years across the country. Every time something happens, I get a pile of emails asking for donations. It's not a Left or Right issue. It's an integrity issue.

60 Min (I think) did a GREAT piece a year or two ago on how much time Congresscritters have to spend - IN WASHINGTON - raising $ for themselves. It's utterly shocking. The DNC and GOP have offices dedicated to them sitting down and effectively COLD CALLING big donors for $. It's all about getting more $ for the cause.

We lived in a true Republic 200 years ago when Congressfolk were in DC for a couple of months a year. Keep in mind the Constitution only says they have to meet ONCE a YEAR.
 
Picton said:
Lol.

On whose say-so? Those doctors most NESers won’t even talk about guns with?

Now you’re trusting them to put their necks out and certify someone can carry? No gun owner would ever seek mental health treatment again.

Linking a civil right to your mental health status is a VERY slippery slope. I get that mental health is a component of all these “solutions,” but I’m opposed to anything that would prevent people from seeking help if they need it.

And I’m not sure there’s a way to reconcile the two.
Click to expand...

You are underscoring the fact that this country is going in a wrong direction. Instead of banning video games and crazies we should have a civil defense in schools, eliminate stupid laws and regulations, and make everyone into a responsible gun owner. Only then we will be able to face evil. Yes, incidents and accidents will still happen but people will not live under false expectations coming from a stupid idea that if we will eliminate video games we will eliminate shooting by idiots.
 
M60 said:
I have no problem with you poking back. lol.You're comparing apples to oranges here. Bump stocks are not ammunition, or guns. I also doubt that flashlights will ever be banned, or the way that we hold them in place.
Why would you buy a shotgun, that causes you to need to buy a extension tube, in the first place, when you can buy one that has a extended magazine installed on it from the factory? My Mossberg 590 A1, Remington 870 and Benelli M1Super 90 were all manufactured with extended magazines. Obviously they aren't that hard to find. I have three and all from different manufacturers.
Click to expand...
You’re missing the point. Entirely...

To circle back to video games: the amount of shit talking and violence committed in the games I’ve played would convince anyone that I should be in a mental hospital due to my exposure to it. And yet here I am, a normal-ish, working, tax paying, adult.
 
Last edited:
Picton said:
Lol.

On whose say-so? Those doctors most NESers won’t even talk about guns with?

Now you’re trusting them to put their necks out and certify someone can carry? No gun owner would ever seek mental health treatment again.

Linking a civil right to your mental health status is a VERY slippery slope. I get that mental health is a component of all these “solutions,” but I’m opposed to anything that would prevent people from seeking help if they need it.

And I’m not sure there’s a way to reconcile the two.
Click to expand...

That is a problem, agreed. But doctors handing out serious meds like candy is too. Some of these have known side effects of thoughts of harm to self and others. Relying on a doctor to get permission is a bad idea - but the amount of people on these meds that do stupid harmful things is too.

Where does this land I don’t know. The good thing is Trump is the whipping boy right now in the hopes Harris will get in and go EO on a gun ban.


I also note how everyone is calling for Background Checks - guys, weren't these bought through dealers with the 4473 and fixed NICS done?

When you threaten to murder or rape & cut up people and you get suspended for a year in school - do you think that should be in your file? Ohh that's right, we don't want to ruin their lives and the education to incarceration train - like the Florida idiot.
 
Last edited:
GM-GUY said:
That is a problem, agreed. But doctors handing out serious meds like candy is too. Some of these have known side effects of thoughts of harm to self and others. Relying on a doctor to get permission is a bad idea - but the amount of people on these meds that do stupid harmful things is too.

....


When you threaten to murder or rape & cut up people and you get suspended for a year in school - do you think that should be in your file? Ohh that's right, we don't want to ruin their lives and the education to incarceration train - like the Florida idiot.
Click to expand...

It's that old security vs liberty debate.

Many people (sheep, mostly) want a secure (or "safe") society, first and foremost. The path of least resistance to a safe society is zero weapons, so that's their default setting. But that's not a free society, and people like me prefer to trade some safety for a bit more liberty.

Mental health complicates that, in the sense that a lot of people truly are disordered and really do benefit from treatment, including drugs. Others don't. I don't expect psychiatrists to be mind-reading supermen and know that in advance, which is why my interim solution is what 10th advocates above: civil defense, taught and reinforced at all levels.

That's not a perfect fix either, but giving the maximum amount of people the option to defend themselves strikes me as the only answer that blends safety with liberty. Plenty of people in mental health treatment are probably able to be perfectly safe with guns, including carry, if they're responding to their treatment properly. But, again, there's never going to be a way to be certain. 100% certainty is what antis think is possible, and it ain't.

As for idle threats in schools? That's just it. The vast majority are idle, and nobody's got the resources to track every twitter post to figure out which ones are something more. Schools try; the law even requires it. But it's impossible, so again, SA is the only answer right now until we come up with something better.

Sucks.
 
DarthRevan said:
You’re missing the point. Entirely...

To circle back to video games: the amount of shit talking and violence committed in the games I’ve played would convince anyone that I should be in a mental hospital due to my exposure to it. And yet here I am, a normal-ish, working, tax paying, adult.
Click to expand...

Lol. We seem to have only your word for that.
 
Picton said:
It's that old security vs liberty debate.

Many people (sheep, mostly) want a secure (or "safe") society, first and foremost. The path of least resistance to a safe society is zero weapons, so that's their default setting. But that's not a free society, and people like me prefer to trade some safety for a bit more liberty.

Mental health complicates that, in the sense that a lot of people truly are disordered and really do benefit from treatment, including drugs. Others don't. I don't expect psychiatrists to be mind-reading supermen and know that in advance, which is why my interim solution is what 10th advocates above: civil defense, taught and reinforced at all levels.

That's not a perfect fix either, but giving the maximum amount of people the option to defend themselves strikes me as the only answer that blends safety with liberty. Plenty of people in mental health treatment are probably able to be perfectly safe with guns, including carry, if they're responding to their treatment properly. But, again, there's never going to be a way to be certain. 100% certainty is what antis think is possible, and it ain't.

As for idle threats in schools? That's just it. The vast majority are idle, and nobody's got the resources to track every twitter post to figure out which ones are something more. Schools try; the law even requires it. But it's impossible, so again, SA is the only answer right now until we come up with something better.

Sucks.
Click to expand...

The real question to be asked is why is there so much mental illness? Ther HAS to be a reason for it as it was never as prevalent as it is now. I reject out of hand the notion that "its just noticed more now"...,bullshit! It's not anywhere near the same percentage of people as it was at any time in the past by a long shot.
 
Uzi2 said:
The real question to be asked is why is there so much mental illness? Ther HAS to be a reason for it as it was never as prevalent as it is now. I reject out of hand the notion that "its just noticed more now"...,bullshit! It's not anywhere near the same percentage of people as it was at any time in the past by a long shot.
Click to expand...
Ehh, better overall diagnosis than decades ago paired with people not hiding their ailments or faking being normal anymore. Yet at the same time there is more misdiagnosing for the sake of just feeding people’s kids with pills so they sit through a lecture.
 
Uzi2 said:
The real question to be asked is why is there so much mental illness? Ther HAS to be a reason for it as it was never as prevalent as it is now. I reject out of hand the notion that "its just noticed more now"...,bullshit! It's not anywhere near the same percentage of people as it was at any time in the past by a long shot.
Click to expand...

If that's the "real question," it's a question without a useful answer. There's no consensus, and most people are just using gut feelings there.

Me? I know diagnoses are a moving target as new DSMs come out, which is bound to change the level of reporting. I think we're overdiagnosed here in the states, but I also suspect a lot of other countries are underdiagnosed and just don't have anyone to do the reporting.

We have many doctors here who need employment, and many dollars just waiting to be made in our health-care industry. I'd guess a lot of that has to do with our overdiagnosis, but again, none of us has a clue really. To me, 10% seems like the "right" number of people in any given population who have enough of a chronic disorder to impair their daily life. But again, I have no clue.

I think we're approaching 20% now in the USA, with a lot more in short-term treatment. But not to worry; New Guinea reported zero mental illness last year, so everything there must be hunky-dory. Between us and New Guinea, the rate's only 10% or so! Yay, stats!

Highest rate of mental disorder reporting seems to be Greenland, up around 25%. Go figure.
 
jpk said:
Here's a question for our educators

Why whenever there's a school shooting that its a current/former student of THAT SCHOOL seeking to shoot/kill teachers and students that they know intimately?

These kids are not going to a mall or downtown area to commit these crimes

They are explicitly targeting their teachers and peers........its a very personal act.....much more so than what we saw in Tx/Oh........

Kids spend 8 plus hours a day under the supervision of educators......its a fair question no?
Click to expand...

How would anyone know?

If you can read the mind of a school shooter, you tell us. I certainly can't.
 
jpk said:
Its certainly a fair question Picton.

....every time there's a shooting educators blame the gun in some stunning display of logic /sarcasm

When are you and your peers going to start to look inwards for answers to why students are seeking to kill their fellow students and teachers?
Click to expand...

Really?

If anyone had that answer, you don't think it'd be all over the news? Nobody knows. That's not just "educators," that's LE, politicians, healthcare professionals, parents, and other students. Go ask them.

I know you tend to believe in precrime, but I'll be the one to tell you: it's a myth.
 
jpk said:
Gee,

I dont recall a pattern of kids targeting their Doctors, Local PD or politicians do you?

How about you make a commitment to bring it up at your next commie teacher meeting?
Click to expand...

Now you're just being a child again. Good luck with that.
 
Uzi2 said:
The real question to be asked is why is there so much mental illness? Ther HAS to be a reason for it as it was never as prevalent as it is now. I reject out of hand the notion that "its just noticed more now"...,bullshit! It's not anywhere near the same percentage of people as it was at any time in the past by a long shot.
Click to expand...

Remember, the state closed all of the state institutions. People like those that were hospitalized in the past, now walk the streets.
 
Uzi2 said:
The real question to be asked is why is there so much mental illness? Ther HAS to be a reason for it as it was never as prevalent as it is now. I reject out of hand the notion that "its just noticed more now"...,bullshit! It's not anywhere near the same percentage of people as it was at any time in the past by a long shot.
Click to expand...

Very good points!

The society requires happy smiling people. If you do not feel like smiling, there is a pill for ya!
Teachers, who can't possibly compete with internet and video games, require average pupils. Everybody else will get a pill.
Parents have no time to focus on their children. In order to get parents' attention, children become unruly. There is a pill against it!

Based on the pills consumption I would guess that 75% of our population is officially nuts. That number includes teachers, police, FBI, military.......Would you like to take guns away from them?

Scientifically we know very little about drugs which are being prescribed. Demand is faster than research. So, while you are munching on something happy, you may also slowly but surely leave normal life and become a mild nut.

Pills create artificial world. It is hard to resist such an adventure. This artificial world does not gel very well with the real world thus people are labeled as nuts. I know cases of 65-75 years old addicts who had a very productive lives but they became nuts after they got addicted to pills prescribed for various reasons by their doctors.
 

Similar threads

post trump, covid vax family relations: conservatives vs liberals
3 4 5
Replies
129
Views
3K
tuna
tuna
National Red Flag
Replies
3
Views
227
Matt_SERE
Matt_SERE
‘Unconstitutional’: DOJ Announces Red Flag Center For Gun-Grab Operation Against Americans
Replies
16
Views
625
Nick Fury
Nick Fury
Gun Control Debate Live Stream
Replies
18
Views
547
Bigfudge16
Bigfudge16
Thousands more gun dealers must run background checks on buyers as Biden administration moves to close 'doggone dangerous' loophole
Replies
4
Views
191
AJK129
AJK129
Back
Top Bottom