Transfer wait times?

[GreyEyes]

Anybody waiting on paperwork to go through from a gun shop purchase/transfer? I filled out a 4473 on Saturday and am still waiting to hear back. I got in touch on Monday and they still hadn't heard and they said to hold tight, but I'm not sure what the new norm is.

This is a pistol transfer in NH, so I'm not sure if the hold up is state or federal.

I don't want to pester the shop when I know they're flat out right now, but can anyone here give me a sense of what waits are like nowadays? Bonus points for anyone on the front lines, shop owners or employees.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

A Federal 4473 is more or less instantaneous. The hangups in states like NH or RI with second, non-instant checks are on the state end. Most gun shops now are adopting policies like "don't call us, we'll call you when its ready."

 

[daekken]

My FFL said every transfer he does is delayed right now.
I assume the three day policy is still in effect, although it's still up to the FFL whether or not to proceed after that (I know some shops won't complete the transfer until they get an approval from NICS).

ETA: For a NH pistol transfer I'd expect a long wait, yes. I regularly wait 45 mins or more when it's not a panic.

 

[slap shot]

i think the state police portion of NH pistol approvals is the big delay

 

[one-eyed Jack]

My NH FFL son tells me that his last pistol sale took from one afternoon till the next morning for the state OK. That was just the other day. Not too bad. Jack.

 

[drgrant]

Anybody waiting on paperwork to go through from a gun shop purchase/transfer? I filled out a 4473 on Saturday and am still waiting to hear back. I got in touch on Monday and they still hadn't heard and they said to hold tight, but I'm not sure what the new norm is.

This is a pistol transfer in NH, so I'm not sure if the hold up is state or federal.

I don't want to pester the shop when I know they're flat out right now, but can anyone here give me a sense of what waits are like nowadays? Bonus points for anyone on the front lines, shop owners or employees.

It's state, NH does a state poc for handguns, that has like 3? people working in it so those transfers frequently get backed up now with runs on the gun shops, etc. If you're tight with the shop if its gone beyond 3 business days they might do a default proceed, but it depends on the shop.

-Mike

 

[teamRR]

My NH checks go through pretty quick normally, ie 5 minutes.

Last one during this panic was put in around 6 pm and the FFL called me w/ a gtg the next day at about 2 pm.

Also though have heard of others (not sure of which POC) going days and days to complete, FFL said some taking 2 weeks.

 

[teamRR]

It's state, NH does a state poc for handguns, that has like 3? people working in it so those transfers frequently get backed up now with runs on the gun shops, etc. If you're tight with the shop if its gone beyond 3 business days they might do a default proceed, but it depends on the shop.

-Mike

Mike, the current FFL I use, at least in the beginning for me and not sure after a half dozen transfers what they would do now, does not transfer upon default proceed but also does not make that information public..

On an aside, though I understand why and that it is well within their rights to do so, it kinda bugs me. I think it's information they should give up front by policy, not when a new customer pays to ship 5 guns there + the transfer fee and then receives a delay..

I thought this latest place was kinda odd in that regard, previous 2 FFLs I used religiously transferred upon default proceed.

Is this a recent shift in FFLs? Do they tend to have different policies even, ie transfer after a week versus 3 business days, or do you think most still use default proceed when they can?

 

[slap shot]

My NH checks go through pretty quick normally, ie 5 minutes.

Last one during this panic was put in around 6 pm and the FFL called me w/ a gtg the next day at about 2 pm.

Also though have heard of others (not sure of which POC) going days and days to complete, FFL said some taking 2 weeks.

long guns yes, my experience with handguns is not 5 minutes

 

[teamRR]

long guns yes, my experience with handguns is not 5 minutes

I specifically meant handguns, the NH POC.

 

[GreyEyes]

Just wanted to update on this. Just got word that my check just went through. Almost 2 weeks later. Not sure if this is the norm now it I just got unlucky.

 

[drgrant]

Mike, the current FFL I use, at least in the beginning for me and not sure after a half dozen transfers what they would do now, does not transfer upon default proceed but also does not make that information public..

On an aside, though I understand why and that it is well within their rights to do so, it kinda bugs me. I think it's information they should give up front by policy, not when a new customer pays to ship 5 guns there + the transfer fee and then receives a delay..

I thought this latest place was kinda odd in that regard, previous 2 FFLs I used religiously transferred upon default proceed.

Is this a recent shift in FFLs? Do they tend to have different policies even, ie transfer after a week versus 3 business days, or do you think most still use default proceed when they can?

I don't have enough data to give a good answer on this. Every dealer is different. I don't think this has really changed much over time. If I was going to start throwing bets on the table though, large shops, box stores (like bass pro etc) probably don't do default proceeds at all and only transfer on a confirmed proceed.

I specifically meant handguns, the NH POC.

The NH handgun poc is all over the place. Every day is different. At the beginning of this BS it was "days for a lot of
people" now its apparently not so bad. Might still not be instant depending on the day. In NH the gun show weekends and black fridays are typically always bad.

-Mike

 

[teamRR]

I don't have enough data to give a good answer on this. Every dealer is different. I don't think this has really changed much over time. If I was going to start throwing bets on the table though, large shops, box stores (like bass pro etc) probably don't do default proceeds at all and only transfer on a confirmed proceed.



The NH handgun poc is all over the place. Every day is different. At the beginning of this BS it was "days for a lot of
people" now its apparently not so bad. Might still not be instant depending on the day. In NH the gun show weekends and black fridays are typically always bad.

-Mike

Thanks for that, last place I frequented until they just annoyed me by gouging during busy times and discouraging transfers, was very straight laced and strange about things (ie buy a few guns at once and they kinda approached it with suspicion) - but they religiously transferred upon default proceed..

Place I go to now is very non judgy about things, even if you ask detailed questions that might be considered interesting (ie "so if I send you 4 pistol lowers does that mean you have to fill out the special form, or are those still "other", how about if prior to transfer we remove the pistol tubes? - could we avoid a special form that way?").. but they will make people wait weeks on a delay..

To me it would seem like as a business owner FFL, eventually if .gov can't get out of their own way you would be very inclined to transfer after a week but not always the case.

 

[Class3NH]

Just wanted to update on this. Just got word that my check just went through. Almost 2 weeks later. Not sure if this is the norm now it I just got unlucky.

When this whole Panic Thing started around March 17th, and people were buying like crazy, The NH NICS system went down......They had 2-3 Clerks working there, and then added 3-4 Troopers, and the NH system still crashed... Maine went down shortly after that too. Been huge delays ever since that time. Delays also happen when your State sends the request for a Check on your POB...(State where you were born) My ONLY delay of my buying guns in 45 years was a few years back... I was buying a NH Handgun, and Mass (where I was born) wasn't answering the phones to confirm my P O B... I got Proceeded the next day....

 

[slap shot]

Thanks for that, last place I frequented until they just annoyed me by gouging during busy times and discouraging transfers, was very straight laced and strange about things (ie buy a few guns at once and they kinda approached it with suspicion) - but they religiously transferred upon default proceed..

Place I go to now is very non judgy about things, even if you ask detailed questions that might be considered interesting (ie "so if I send you 4 pistol lowers does that mean you have to fill out the special form, or are those still "other", how about if prior to transfer we remove the pistol tubes? - could we avoid a special form that way?").. but they will make people wait weeks on a delay..

To me it would seem like as a business owner FFL, eventually if .gov can't get out of their own way you would be very inclined to transfer after a week but not always the case.

Curious which NH dealer is gouging during busy times.

 

[teamRR]

Curious which NH dealer is gouging during busy times.

Ahh if it was recent I would post it for everyone to see but this was a couple years ago, and I did actually like the employees there. For all I know now it's run totally differently.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Did a handgun transfer (NH) on a Saturday at about 4pm. Got called the next day about noon. This was 2 weeks ago. (end of March 2020).

 

[kingson]

I have been doing a bunch of transfers lately. A few weeks ago it was taking about 2 days for the State Police to get back to me for the approvals for handguns. I have done one or two just about every day this week and it's down to a day for them to get back to me. It sucks to have to tell the customers that they have to come back the next day to get there guns.

 

[42!]

I'm at a loss as to why we don't toss out the NH system and just do the fed. I know why it came to be, just don't know why it still is.

 

[teamRR]

I'm at a loss as to why we don't toss out the NH system and just do the fed. I know why it came to be, just don't know why it still is.

One very good reason is NH POC appeals can be processed in a matter of a few weeks directly with the state police, ie you can make an appointment for doing this in person. Sounds minor until you get denied (or get a perpetual delay every time)..

Some folks actually get a proceed vis the state poc but a denied via feds - basically NH does it better (even when mistakes are made they fix them without fingerprints and months of waiting/red-tape).

NH POC is extremely important to keep around.

 

[42!]

One very good reason is NH POC appeals can be processed in a matter of a few weeks directly with the state police, ie you can make an appointment for doing this in person. Sounds minor until you get denied (or get a perpetual delay every time)..

Some folks actually get a proceed vis the state poc but a denied via feds - basically NH does it better (even when mistakes are made they fix them without fingerprints and months of waiting/red-tape).

NH POC is extremely important to keep around.

Some points.
There may be a perpetual delay on the NH check, I don't know, but there is not on the fed. On the fed it's a default proceed.

I've only got anecdotal information but it's my understanding if you get a deny on the fed you can appeal, and then get a PIN which pretty much clears up the issue. I'd like to hear from those who actually got delayed on a fed check and what it took to clear it up.

I've had several long wait times, days, with the NH check. Sometime systems issue, other they are just slow. Never had those with the fed.

And finally is the cost to taxpayers, like me and you. The NH system is redundant to the fed system, they actually run you against the fed system as well as their own, so anything that causes a problem on the fed will also be a problem on the NH, and we are paying for both and we don't need to.

 

[teamRR]

Some points.
There may be a perpetual delay on the NH check, I don't know, but there is not on the fed. On the fed it's a default proceed.

I've only got anecdotal information but it's my understanding if you get a deny on the fed you can appeal, and then get a PIN which pretty much clears up the issue. I'd like to hear from those who actually got delayed on a fed check and what it took to clear it up.

I've had several long wait times, days, with the NH check. Sometime systems issue, other they are just slow. Never had those with the fed.

And finally is the cost to taxpayers, like me and you. The NH system is redundant to the fed system, they actually run you against the fed system as well as their own, so anything that causes a problem on the fed will also be a problem on the NH, and we are paying for both and we don't need to.

A fed appeal requires fingerprints, and sometimes a year or more, and there is no way to say present them with a lawyer without actually suing the FBI. Some people have to actually sue and spend tens of thousands to get them to acknowledge basic information. It's not a reasonable process.

NH on the other hand, make an appointment, go see them, bring a lawyer if you want, if you are right you can buy guns a few weeks later. Very important to keep this.

 

[42!]

A fed appeal requires fingerprints, and sometimes a year or more, and there is no way to say present them with a lawyer without actually suing the FBI. Some people have to actually sue and spend tens of thousands to get them to acknowledge basic information. It's not a reasonable process.

NH on the other hand, make an appointment, go see them, bring a lawyer if you want, if you are right you can buy guns a few weeks later. Very important to keep this.

What you heard or first hand experience? Because I'm looking for first hand experience, or at least a cite. Because I've hear otherwise, I just don't put it out there because it's not first hand and I can't prove it.

Oh wait, here's the fed process fed appeal process looks pretty straight forward. Since the NH check runs a fed check, about the only thing that could be different is the identity check. And the fed does say fingerprints may make it faster, but they are optional. And it's a one time thing, once you get a PIN it's done.

And right out of the gate the NH process takes longer, you have to wait for up to 2 weeks for a letter from them just to get started. On the Fed side, you request an appeal and the must respond in 5 days. NH appeal process

And if you think NH has some super high-tech reliable system I can tell you you're wrong.

 

[teamRR]

Here's my reccomendation if you actually care to understand it.

On Monday call Penny, leave a message that basically says some idiot on northeast shooters says fed NICs appeals are a joke and NH POC is important and you just want to hear her opinion.

This is one of the credentialed people who actually looks out for us btw..

Now maybe you still won't be swayed, I don't know, but she will have more than one experience with it (a waaaaay understatement).

Take notes, report your findings.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

NH: And once again, I'll get on my soapbox. Let's push for an enhanced permit that allows the NICS exemption. It was not optional where I lived before (one permit for all), but some states have given people the option of an enhanced one. No one wanted one at first, since they were all scared that they wouldn't get Con-Carry in NH. Well, now we have it. Others felt that an "enhanced" version would become the norm for everyone. The states that have created an enhanced, have kept the basic one.

Enhanced is only good for 5 years (NH varies slightly in actual length). It requires fingerprints, and took up to 60 days [vs. the 14 day time limit for issuance in NH - not that that has stopped some departments from taking longer (Chief was on vacation) ]. However, every time it was crazy (and even when not), I just walked in, filled out my 4473, put down my permit number and walked out in 5 minutes. Just a thought.

 

[wilson911]

NH: And once again, I'll get on my soapbox. Let's push for an enhanced permit that allows the NICS exemption. It was not optional where I lived before (one permit for all), but some states have given people the option of an enhanced one. No one wanted one at first, since they were all scared that they wouldn't get Con-Carry in NH. Well, now we have it. Others felt that an "enhanced" version would become the norm for everyone. The states that have created an enhanced, have kept the basic one.

Enhanced is only good for 5 years (NH varies slightly in actual length). It requires fingerprints, and took up to 60 days [vs. the 14 day time limit for issuance in NH - not that that has stopped some departments from taking longer (Chief was on vacation) ]. However, every time it was crazy (and even when not), I just walked in, filled out my 4473, put down my permit number and walked out in 5 minutes. Just a thought.

Yes! More permits! I'm sure that's the most reasonable solution. I'm always telling my friends that what this state needs is more permits. Instead of pushing to actually fix a problem, having the government implement enhanced permitting would really be smart, because indont see how that system could be abused or corrupted.

 

[teamRR]

NH: And once again, I'll get on my soapbox. Let's push for an enhanced permit that allows the NICS exemption. It was not optional where I lived before (one permit for all), but some states have given people the option of an enhanced one. No one wanted one at first, since they were all scared that they wouldn't get Con-Carry in NH. Well, now we have it. Others felt that an "enhanced" version would become the norm for everyone. The states that have created an enhanced, have kept the basic one.

Enhanced is only good for 5 years (NH varies slightly in actual length). It requires fingerprints, and took up to 60 days [vs. the 14 day time limit for issuance in NH - not that that has stopped some departments from taking longer (Chief was on vacation) ]. However, every time it was crazy (and even when not), I just walked in, filled out my 4473, put down my permit number and walked out in 5 minutes. Just a thought.

Do you happen to know the list of issues preventing NH permits from working this way?

I didn't think it was fingerprints rather that it was a length of validity time, in addition to NH takes a strict stance on what constitutes prohibiting criminal records, limited to > 2 year carrying crimes for criminal records (excepting domestic convictions now days), while the feds require recent drug misdemeanors to be prohibiting for such permits (ie NH won't prohibit someone for recent misdemeanor drug possession).

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Yes! More permits! I'm sure that's the most reasonable solution. I'm always telling my friends that what this state needs is more permits. Instead of pushing to actually fix a problem, having the government implement enhanced permitting would really be smart, because indont see how that system could be abused or corrupted.

That's why it would be OPTIONAL. Reading is fundamental. None of the states that have offered it have made it mandatory if it was added on top of a "standard" one. If you don't want it, don't get it. Maybe you like to drive 3 hours to a place to buy something, and then have a delay and drive 3 hours home. Then take another day to drive 3 hours back up and then back home. There is no "solving the problem" since they are not going to get rid of the NICS check, why not allow those of us that choose to skip it?

Do you happen to know the list of issues preventing NH permits from working this way?

I didn't think it was fingerprints rather that it was a length of validity time, in addition to NH takes a strict stance on what constitutes prohibiting criminal records, limited to > 2 year carrying crimes for criminal records (excepting domestic convictions now days), while the feds require recent drug misdemeanors to be prohibiting for such permits (ie NH won't prohibit someone for recent misdemeanor drug possession).

New Hampshire people didn't want it, since they thought it would jeopardize Con-Carry, or that we could just get rid of the state POC. Doesn't matter - you'd still have to go through the Federal NICS anyway. You'd think that people that have delays or denials would especially be open to it, since once you have the permit. Once you have it, no one gets called. You just walk in, buy and walk out. It would require fingerprints to meet the requirements, but I've had to provide them for every other state that I have permits for, and every job I've had (no choice - no prints - no job or permit) so I'm already "registered" anyway.

 

[teamRR]

I agree if it could be legislated right it could be a good thing but also I see the skepticism about it, ie one day optional shall issue, few years later required and may issue. Once such is on paper its that much easier to make it required - not to mention .gov does not have fingerprint records for most of us and we prefer it that way..

I do like the concept that similarly as with the state POC one could seek relief from infringement within the state, ie instead of dealing with the feds one could apply for a permit and if denied erroneously then they could easily appeal locally or even bring suit in a local court if needed (this happens occasionally with the NH permit today and typically the plaintiff both wins and is awarded the permit plus all costs paid by the town with the infringing official).

 

[42!]

Here's my reccomendation if you actually care to understand it.

On Monday call Penny, leave a message that basically says some idiot on northeast shooters says fed NICs appeals are a joke and NH POC is important and you just want to hear her opinion.

This is one of the credentialed people who actually looks out for us btw..

Now maybe you still won't be swayed, I don't know, but she will have more than one experience with it (a waaaaay understatement).

Take notes, report your findings.

OK, so no first hand and no cite, just a go take to someone and hear their "opinion". You know what they say about opinions.
And lawyers are not "credentialed people who actually looks out for us". They are hired to fight on your behalf. I've got 2 very good ones in the family and they are quite honest about their profession. Of course they both specialize and don't just chase every ambulance. And they have "opinions" as well. And they are both mostly anti. So Lawyer and "opinion" makes them right. Right?

And I was pretty clear about the relative nature of the two systems, I never used the word "joke". You're just being hyperbolic.

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that the only situation you know of was a denial based on an inaccurate (or at least claimed to be) criminal record. Becaues the only effective difference between the two is the Identity portion and that isn't a big deal to fix. And in these cases the problem is getting the record fixed, which is the same for both. Remember, the NH POC actually uses the Fed system as one of it's checks.

Now if you care to stop dancing around the issue and actually provide facts, cites, meaningful real world examples, please go ahead, and I'll stop guessing at where you're coming from.

Oh, and I'll will be calling Penny to ask, who should I say suggested I call?