Transfer wait times?

[teamRR]

OK, so no first hand and no cite, just a go take to someone and hear their "opinion". You know what they say about opinions.
And lawyers are not "credentialed people who actually looks out for us". They are hired to fight on your behalf. I've got 2 very good ones in the family and they are quite honest about their profession. Of course they both specialize and don't just chase every ambulance. And they have "opinions" as well. And they are both mostly anti. So Lawyer and "opinion" makes them right. Right?

And I was pretty clear about the relative nature of the two systems, I never used the word "joke". You're just being hyperbolic.

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that the only situation you know of was a denial based on an inaccurate (or at least claimed to be) criminal record. Becaues the only effective difference between the two is the Identity portion and that isn't a big deal to fix. And in these cases the problem is getting the record fixed, which is the same for both. Remember, the NH POC actually uses the Fed system as one of it's checks.

Now if you care to stop dancing around the issue and actually provide facts, cites, meaningful real world examples, please go ahead, and I'll stop guessing at where you're coming from.

Oh, and I'll will be calling Penny to ask, who should I say suggested I call?

It is quite well known the fed process is terrible.

If you research her you will see she is a 2a activist, not because she is paid to be that way (although sure she is lawyer, but gets involved on her own accord too, carries)..

Similarly if you researched fed NICs appeals in practice you would see that the process starts with a letter sent that states nothing other than they found a matching record (not what record). Then they need fingerprints to give you details, then you challenge those details and wait, and wait, you cannot just go schedule an appointment with them. For long periods of time they have even shut down appeals or had average wait times in the ballpark of a year (which I tried to find but apparently they stopped publishing them).. the NRA and others have articles online all about these nightmares but you seem to think its smooth.

It was once different, but has been turned into bureaucratic process.

I know one person recently who walked out of a gun shop with his new Glock. Went back in an hour later for a rifle he just had to have, denial. Last I heard he had been waiting for 2 months.

Same records, yes, but why? Because NH is a smaller place and has different people doing it who are held to a different standard, who can't just hide behind a .gov organization, ie when you can go see their boss in person. The records are the same but require lawyer-like knowledge to decipher, ie is an annulled NH Felony prohibiting? Is a DUI in Kansas prohibiting? Is criminal trespassing a crime of domestic violence? What is a CWOF?

Or there are two Joe Smith's from Newtown CT, one is 41, one is 31, one is a felon. An ahole agent might just call them the same person.

You don't need my info to contact her, hell send her an email if you want.

 

[teamRR]

Just to be clear I'm also not saying NH POC makes less mistakes, have heard nightmares out of them too. The difference is their mistakes are much easier to challenge and correct.

I can't speak for personally challenging a denial but once had a 5+ day NH POC delay that (when contacted via lawyer) was changed to a proceed within about an hour, and I was even given an explanation that they indentified and corrected something erroneous. With the feds there is just no direct line into them like that, nor would they ever provide an explanation in that situation.

 

[42!]

It is quite well known the fed process is terrible.

So terrible fed process plus terrible NH process is somehow better? Remember, NH uses the same information the fed does plus more.

If you research her you will see she is a 2a activist, not because she is paid to be that way (although sure she is lawyer, but gets involved on her own accord too, carries)..

Are you quoting someone here. The use of ( ) and the indication that this is taken out of a longer statement (the use of .. ) and the last word just hanging there, all seems to indicate either a lack of english skills or you are pulling comments from someone else. Regardless, it's irrelevant to the argument, how about some facts or at least cite a source, telling me someone has an opinion that matches your own is weak.

Similarly if you researched fed NICs appeals in practice you would see that the process starts with a letter sent that states nothing other than they found a matching record (not what record). Then they need fingerprints to give you details, then you challenge those details and wait, and wait, you cannot just go schedule an appointment with them. For long periods of time they have even shut down appeals or had average wait times in the ballpark of a year (which I tried to find but apparently they stopped publishing them).. the NRA and others have articles online all about these nightmares but you seem to think its smooth.

I provided links to the process for both. You could do the same, if you have them.
If you're talking criminal records, then whatever would be a problem for a fed check will be a problem for NH since they use the same database. If you are talking about an identity issue where the question comes from the fed database, then it would be an issue for both checks, if it's identity and from another system NH checks then it would only be an issue for a NH check. I don't see the circumstances where something would be a fed check issue and not a NH check issue. Conversely, I do see how a NH check issue may not be a fed check issue.

It was once different, but has been turned into bureaucratic process.

Not relevant, they are both bureaucratic processes. I'll leave out my "Back in the day stories" if you will.

I know one person recently who walked out of a gun shop with his new Glock. Went back in an hour later for a rifle he just had to have, denial. Last I heard he had been waiting for 2 months.

Remember how I said I won't bring up any unsupported stories, because without proof they are nothing but that, stories. And this is nothing but that, a story. If you want to provide some supporting evidence, otherwise it's nothing. And the fed process has a default proceed, he hasn't just been waiting 2 months, only the NH system allows for that.

Same records, yes, but why? Because NH is a smaller place and has different people doing it who are held to a different standard, who can't just hide behind a .gov organization, ie when you can go see their boss in person.

A smaller organization that cost the taxpayers of NH for a service that is already provided by the fed. It just flushes money down the drain and employs people in unnecessary positions.
And the multi-day delays and the complete outages are are 100% because of the NH system. My last rifle, bought last week in the middle of this craziness was approved in real-time, at the same time NH checks were running 3-4 DAYS out. And if you think they answer to anyone, you have never had to deal with them directly.

The records are the same but require lawyer-like knowledge to decipher, ie is an annulled NH Felony prohibiting? Is a DUI in Kansas prohibiting? Is criminal trespassing a crime of domestic violence? What is a CWOF?

It doesn't take a lawyer to figure this out, Have you come down on the wrong side and you're trying to make it sound like a grey area? And a CWOF, really, Continued Without a Finding, sounds like english to me.

Or there are two Joe Smith's from Newtown CT, one is 41, one is 31, one is a felon. An ahole agent might just call them the same person.

The agent, NH or fed, who doesn't know you thinks they might be the same person, so doing their job makes them an ahole. You're right, in either case they will want proof. Cooperate and it will go smoothly, be an ahole and well people don't usually react well to that. Of couse in the fed system you can get a PIN and it won't happen again. Not so in the NH system.

You don't need my info to contact her, hell send her an email if you want.

That's ok, I'll call. Since you don't want to stand up for your own suggestion, I'll just tell her it was teamRR on NES. I'm not afraid for her to know my name, even if you are.

Just to be clear I'm also not saying NH POC makes less mistakes, have heard nightmares out of them too. The difference is their mistakes are much easier to challenge and correct.

I can't speak for personally challenging a denial but once had a 5+ day NH POC delay that (when contacted via lawyer) was changed to a proceed within about an hour, and I was even given an explanation that they indentified and corrected something erroneous. With the feds there is just no direct line into them like that, nor would they ever provide an explanation in that situation.

So you actually had a problem with the NH check, they were going to just let it sit as a default denial, something they CAN'T do on a fed check, you even had to hire a lawyer. And because they fed you a bunch of BS you're all happy with them. If you've ever been OKed in the fed system than the erroneous information, if here really was any, was in their system not the fed.

So you go on about how great they are for fixing a problem with their own system, that would not have been a problem in the fed system...... I guess if they screw up more you'll like them even more.

 

[teamRR]

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Let me try to simplify it for you:

NH appeals process: make an appointment, go deal with it in person

Fed appeals process: works similar to NFA, file paperwork, wait, wait, wait, deal with a faceless organization. Could take a year.

Some of countless articles on the subject, that you probably won't believe because it's not first hand, but I'm trying..

Lawsuit Filed over FBI’s Willful Failure to Process NICS Denial Appeals

If they’re going to mandate we get approval from their system, it’s on them to make sure adequate resources are allocated to rectify errors.

www.ammoland.com

Man who spent $10K to get NICS record fixed refused attorney's fees by court :: Guns.com

An Ohio man who sued the federal government over a stagnant background check appeal on a gun purchase was told he was not entitled to get his fees back.

www.guns.com

NRA-ILA | No Way Out: Feds Stop Processing NICS Denial Appeals

Feds Stop Processing NICS Background Check System Denial Appeals

www.nraila.org

Even if it takes longer I'd rather have a local and accountable organization performing this function; I wish they were POC for all checks.

 

[teamRR]

Permits and Licensing, Support Services - Division of State Police, NH DOS

Permits and Licensing, Support Services - Division of State Police, NH Department of Safety

www.nh.gov

Justice Information Bureau
Permits and Licensing Unit

Pistol / Revolver

Explosives

Security / Detectives


PUBLIC COUNTER (for in-person requests)
MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY
8:15AM-4:00PM
ROOM 106


Hand Gun/”other” DENIALS: The Division of State Police is responsible for conducting criminal background checks for handgun and “other” purchases only. If you were denied a handgun or “other” purchase, a letter will be sent out to your home address, explaining the reason for denial. Please give at least two weeks for this letter to be delivered. If further clarification is needed, please contact the GUN LINE DENIAL # at 603-223-3873 x 4 at which time you will be prompted to leave a message. A return call will be returned no later than the next business day. If needed, an appointment to review your denial will be set up with one of our staff members at that time.PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THE COUNTER WITHOUT AN APPOINTMENT.

 

[42!]

Permits and Licensing, Support Services - Division of State Police, NH DOS

Permits and Licensing, Support Services - Division of State Police, NH Department of Safety

www.nh.gov

Justice Information Bureau
Permits and Licensing Unit

Pistol / Revolver

Explosives

Security / Detectives


PUBLIC COUNTER (for in-person requests)
MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY
8:15AM-4:00PM
ROOM 106


Hand Gun/”other” DENIALS: The Division of State Police is responsible for conducting criminal background checks for handgun and “other” purchases only. If you were denied a handgun or “other” purchase, a letter will be sent out to your home address, explaining the reason for denial. Please give at least two weeks for this letter to be delivered. If further clarification is needed, please contact the GUN LINE DENIAL # at 603-223-3873 x 4 at which time you will be prompted to leave a message. A return call will be returned no later than the next business day. If needed, an appointment to review your denial will be set up with one of our staff members at that time.PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THE COUNTER WITHOUT AN APPOINTMENT.

Right, that's the link I gave you <confused>.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

ATF Audits Reveal 1-in-4 NH Gun Line Background Checks Are Wrong

The results of two federally conducted audits performed by the FBI, revealed that the NH Department of Safety's "Gun Line" was repeatedly found guilty of misuse of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System,

www.ammoland.com

ATF Audits Reveal 1-in-4 NH Gun Line Background Checks Are Wrong

New Hampshire – -(AmmoLand.com)- New Hampshire House Bill 109 – calling for Universal Background Checks for every purchase of a firearm – will wrongfully deny even more Granite Staters their rights! It is sponsored by NH Democrat Representative Katherine Rogers [yes, the same Democrat Rep who pleaded guilty to assault the day before Christmas 2017].

After Right to Know Requests were filed, the results of two federally conducted audits performed by the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division, revealed that the NH Department of Safety's “Gun Line” was repeatedly found guilty of:

1) Misuse of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS); and,
2) Entering “invalid” records in NICS
Out of a statistical sample – a SAMPLE – of 400 entries into NICS by the NH Gun Line, the ATF audits found that 109, a whopping 27.25%, were wrongly entered, and sent to NICS without valid documentation.*1,2

Bear in mind, the ACCEPTABLE “threshold” of error for one of these audits – called the “Integrity of NICS Index Records Policy” – is 10%.

New Hampshire's Gun Line errors were nearly 3 times the acceptable 10% “integrity threshold” and the only recourse for persons affected is a lengthy and costly appeal process while the bureaucrats responsible for the error suffer no consequences at all.
As the anti-gunners like to say: “If only one person’s life is saved”, then how can it be acceptable for even 1 person's rights to be wrongfully denied?

Would it be acceptable to NH, the feds or anyone else for that matter if 10% of Granite Staters were denied their fundamental right of free speech, much less 27% of them?

 

[teamRR]

ATF Audits Reveal 1-in-4 NH Gun Line Background Checks Are Wrong

The results of two federally conducted audits performed by the FBI, revealed that the NH Department of Safety's "Gun Line" was repeatedly found guilty of misuse of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System,

www.ammoland.com

ATF Audits Reveal 1-in-4 NH Gun Line Background Checks Are Wrong

New Hampshire – -(AmmoLand.com)- New Hampshire House Bill 109 – calling for Universal Background Checks for every purchase of a firearm – will wrongfully deny even more Granite Staters their rights! It is sponsored by NH Democrat Representative Katherine Rogers [yes, the same Democrat Rep who pleaded guilty to assault the day before Christmas 2017].

After Right to Know Requests were filed, the results of two federally conducted audits performed by the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division, revealed that the NH Department of Safety's “Gun Line” was repeatedly found guilty of:

1) Misuse of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS); and,
2) Entering “invalid” records in NICS
Out of a statistical sample – a SAMPLE – of 400 entries into NICS by the NH Gun Line, the ATF audits found that 109, a whopping 27.25%, were wrongly entered, and sent to NICS without valid documentation.*1,2

Bear in mind, the ACCEPTABLE “threshold” of error for one of these audits – called the “Integrity of NICS Index Records Policy” – is 10%.

New Hampshire's Gun Line errors were nearly 3 times the acceptable 10% “integrity threshold” and the only recourse for persons affected is a lengthy and costly appeal process while the bureaucrats responsible for the error suffer no consequences at all.
As the anti-gunners like to say: “If only one person’s life is saved”, then how can it be acceptable for even 1 person's rights to be wrongfully denied?

Would it be acceptable to NH, the feds or anyone else for that matter if 10% of Granite Staters were denied their fundamental right of free speech, much less 27% of them?

We have talked about this article before, but the ASSumption everyone jumps to is that the problem is false denials, they don't actually tell us that.

The author jumped to that conclusion and also does not seem to understand anything about the NH appeals process, which is way easier than the feds and fairly reasonable for any government agency (ie make an appointment and send your lawyer there if you want).

To me it actually sounds as likely the state police are correcting bad NICs records in violation of how the feds want it done, or even giving proceeds without the documentation the feds want or something. We really have no idea.

"1) Misuse of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS); and,
2) Entering “invalid” records in NICS
Out of a statistical sample – a SAMPLE – of 400 entries into NICS by the NH Gun Line, the ATF audits found that 109, a whopping 27.25%, were wrongly entered, and sent to NICS without valid documentation.*1,2"

 

[teamRR]

Edit: this time reading article I see the actual government report.

NH was in compliance on all fronts (ie is NOT giving false denials) with the exception of details provided in criminal record updates, ie missing things like tattoos and court case details in what they entered. The article seems credulous or intentionally misleading - has nothing to do with false denials.

 

[42!]

NH system:
1. goes down because they don't have the infrastructure the fed does
2. uses the same databases the fed does, plus more
3. long delays when busy, which happens often
4. can keep you waiting indefinitely, as least until you hire a lawyer and take them to court
5. NH taxpayers pay for all this and for the fed system

Fed system:
1. Massive infrastructure, far more reliable that state system
2. any problem found in their DB would be a problem for the state as well
3. short wait time even when the entire country is submitting record amounts of checks
4. max 3 day wait then it's a defaut proceed
5. already paying for it, no extra cost to NH taxpayers

teamRR goes on about the difficulty in fixing problems, but the reality is that the problem is with the original record, and it would be a problem with either system. And the record must be corrected at the source, not at the NH state or Fed NCIS level. So the difficulty would be the same either way.
The only difference is in the identity portion. And while it may bother teamRR, the fed system to clear this up isn't all that bad. Providing the option social security number on the 4477 would prevent most of these, and if not you submit you finger prints. And get a PIN. And it doesn't happen again.

The real problem is correcting an incorrect record. It's the same with either system. And how bad it is depends on how bad the record it.

 

[teamRR]

NH system:
1. goes down because they don't have the infrastructure the fed does
2. uses the same databases the fed does, plus more
3. long delays when busy, which happens often
4. can keep you waiting indefinitely, as least until you hire a lawyer and take them to court
5. NH taxpayers pay for all this and for the fed system

Fed system:
1. Massive infrastructure, far more reliable that state system
2. any problem found in their DB would be a problem for the state as well
3. short wait time even when the entire country is submitting record amounts of checks
4. max 3 day wait then it's a defaut proceed
5. already paying for it, no extra cost to NH taxpayers

teamRR goes on about the difficulty in fixing problems, but the reality is that the problem is with the original record, and it would be a problem with either system. And the record must be corrected at the source, not at the NH state or Fed NCIS level. So the difficulty would be the same either way.
The only difference is in the identity portion. And while it may bother teamRR, the fed system to clear this up isn't all that bad. Providing the option social security number on the 4477 would prevent most of these, and if not you submit you finger prints. And get a PIN. And it doesn't happen again.

The real problem is correcting an incorrect record. It's the same with either system. And how bad it is depends on how bad the record it.

There are multiple problems with what you are saying here but most glaringly you have #4 backwards, it is easier to resolve problems within the state of NH than with the feds because the state does not hide, sure you can hire a lawyer (which is how I approach anything related to .gov) but it's not needed. Hiring an attorney to go talk to the state police POC is not a suit..

And NH can go fix the problem, as they did in my situation (and now my typical NH check is 5 minutes, literally)..

On the other hand, if the feds are just refusing to process your appeal, or are just not accepting the truth, you are completely screwed. I don't know of anyone actually having to sue NH over this - I pointed out multiple instances of this happening with the feds. Imagine being in that situation where you just can't do anything other than suing the FBI?

In the heat of this wuflu stuff my NH check was put in just before the shop closed on fri night, sat at about 1 pm I got the call. Fed checks were not happening any faster.

The NH system isn't bad at all and gives those who need it (which could be anyone at anytime really) a local avenue for resolving problems.

 

[drgrant]

There are multiple problems with what you are saying here but most glaringly you have #4 backwards, it is easier to resolve problems within the state of NH than with the feds because the state does not hide, sure you can hire a lawyer (which is how I approach anything related to .gov) but it's not needed. Hiring an attorney to go talk to the state police POC is not a suit..

And NH can go fix the problem, as they did in my situation (and now my typical NH check is 5 minutes, literally)..

Did you have a problem with some kind of NH based legal disposition or a problem that originated somewhere else? This makes a
big difference. If it's an issue that the feds wouldn't have flagged you for you're congratulting them for fixing a problem you might
not have had otherwise.

Will the state of NH go to bat for a citizen to unf*** a bad fed NICS entry? If they don't have that level of interfacing with the
people running the upstream systems, then they add no value here.

Fed checks were not happening any faster.

Not sure if serious there are digital fed nics checks that are pretty much instantaneous. Any of the shops that are bigger than a
filing cabinet have that software now. The feds have several approved systems they let FFLs use. Any FFL with a brain that can
afford it has bought into it because it reduces errors and expedites the checks.

The NH system isn't bad at all and gives those who need it (which could be anyone at anytime really) a local avenue for resolving problems.

IMHO it's horrendous and needs to go, but it's worthless talking about it because there won't be a chance to do it unless the NH house flips red on the next interval. The only reason it existed at all was to give NH residents a wallhack against the ancient, now deprecated 3 day brady wait period; it's long outlived its usefulness.

-Mike

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Not sure if serious there are digital fed nics checks that are pretty much instantaneous. Any of the shops that are bigger than a
filing cabinet have that software now. The feds have several approved systems they let FFLs use. Any FFL with a brain that can
afford it has bought into it because it reduces errors and expedites the checks.

According to their website, the e-file for checks runs 24 hours a day. I don't know why more places (in NH anyway) don't use it. The only place that I recall doing it that way was at a chain store. The others all call it in by phone. The time that someone did that differently for a handgun was Sig. They have you fill out a form with the relevant information and fax it into the NH POC. I like this better, since you're not in the middle of the shop with someone calling out all of your information, and the caller and the POC person don't have to go back and forth about "How do you spell his name?" with one or the other one messing it up.

 

[teamRR]

Did you have a problem with some kind of NH based legal disposition or a problem that originated somewhere else? This makes a
big difference. If it's an issue that the feds wouldn't have flagged you for you're congratulting them for fixing a problem you might
not have had otherwise.

Will the state of NH go to bat for a citizen to unf*** a bad fed NICS entry? If they don't have that level of interfacing with the
people running the upstream systems, then they add no value here.

To answer your question, really don't know what they fixed, information was not provided - but moving forward it was a big difference in speed for me.

They might not be able to fix say a confusing record that gets you hung up from another state (hell maybe they can I don't know), but if that record was interpreted in error (which I think are probably 90% of denials - mistakes by agents when identifying prohibiting factors) I believe you can get yourself a proceed to buy your gun(s) by appealing through the NH POC a lot faster and more reliably than via the feds. Or another way to put it, a fed denial is a much larger pain in the balls to appeal.

There are NH gun owners out there who "always buy a pistol" for one reason or another - seems stupid for those who believe their check is a sure bet, but not everyone is so lucky, and not everyone wants to go sending fingerprints into .gov to fix such problems.

For sure the best system would be no background checks, or a way to pull up all your own matches in NICs, but I don't see that on the horizon.

 

[42!]

To answer your question, really don't know what they fixed, information was not provided - but moving forward it was a big difference in speed for me.

They might not be able to fix say a confusing record that gets you hung up from another state (hell maybe they can I don't know), but if that record was interpreted in error (which I think are probably 90% of denials - mistakes by agents when identifying prohibiting factors) I believe you can get yourself a proceed to buy your gun(s) by appealing through the NH POC a lot faster and more reliably than via the feds. Or another way to put it, a fed denial is a much larger pain in the balls to appeal.

There are NH gun owners out there who "always buy a pistol" for one reason or another - seems stupid for those who believe their check is a sure bet, but not everyone is so lucky, and not everyone wants to go sending fingerprints into .gov to fix such problems.

For sure the best system would be no background checks, or a way to pull up all your own matches in NICs, but I don't see that on the horizon.

This is both revealing and important.
Your position is based on being denied by the NH POC. they didn't even tell you why which tells me it wasn't a record or even an identity problem, it was their own screw up. You had to hire a lawyer to get them to fix it. And now you call them good for fixing their own screw up, which would not have even happened under the fed system. "Thank you sir may I have another".
Seriously, if they didn't tell you what the problem was, then it was their screw up.

And the NH system has defined hours, and even if the have an electronic system, no one uses it. Fed is electronic and call in, and everyone uses the electronic.

And if you think an agent interprets every filing, on either system, on the first pass, you are sadly mistaken. They punch the info the are given, and get back a yes or no. Data Entry drones don't make decisions.

The NH POC had a purpose, but that went away a long time ago.

 

[teamRR]

This is both revealing and important.
Your position is based on being denied by the NH POC. they didn't even tell you why which tells me it wasn't a record or even an identity problem, it was their own screw up. You had to hire a lawyer to get them to fix it. And now you call them good for fixing their own screw up, which would not have even happened under the fed system. "Thank you sir may I have another".
Seriously, if they didn't tell you what the problem was, then it was their screw up.

And the NH system has defined hours, and even if the have an electronic system, no one uses it. Fed is electronic and call in, and everyone uses the electronic.

And if you think an agent interprets every filing, on either system, on the first pass, you are sadly mistaken. They punch the info the are given, and get back a yes or no. Data Entry drones don't make decisions.

The NH POC had a purpose, but that went away a long time ago.

Wasn't a denial was a delay, albeit a 5 day one, and I didn't have to hire a lawyer, but for the one hour of their commission it was certainly effective and well worth it to me.

Again if that was the feds I would have been more screwed because there is no such quick painless fed process and the FFL of interest does not transfer upon default proceed.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

And the NH system has defined hours, and even if the have an electronic system, no one uses it. Fed is electronic and call in, and everyone uses the electronic.

Yes, and it's all very hush, hush. Can't find out anywhere what hours they are actually available to conduct the checks. Kind of annoying, since if they're not open why bother going in for a check at that time?

 

[kingson]

Yes, and it's all very hush, hush. Can't find out anywhere what hours they are actually available to conduct the checks. Kind of annoying, since if they're not open why bother going in for a check at that time?

The NH handgun check is open from 9am-8pm Monday through Saturday and Sunday 9am-6pm

 

[42!]

Wasn't a denial was a delay, albeit a 5 day one, and I didn't have to hire a lawyer, but for the one hour of their commission it was certainly effective and well worth it to me.

Again if that was the feds I would have been more screwed because there is no such quick painless fed process and the FFL of interest does not transfer upon default proceed.

Wrong, if had been Fed you would have already had your gun for 2 days and would have needed to do NOTHING. Fed is a max 3 day default proceed.

You're promoting the NH POC as better because they fixed their own screw up after making you wait 5 days and you had to go to them. And it was something that would not have even happened under the fed check.

 

[42!]

The NH handgun check is open from 9am-8pm Monday through Saturday and Sunday 9am-6pm

Except when it goes down for an entire day because they F'd up one of their own switches.

 

[teamRR]

Wrong, if had been Fed you would have already had your gun for 2 days and would have needed to do NOTHING. Fed is a max 3 day default proceed.

You're promoting the NH POC as better because they fixed their own screw up after making you wait 5 days and you had to go to them. And it was something that would not have even happened under the fed check.

No you are wrong on that, you are assuming the FFL transfers upon default proceed - which this one does not. Some do, some don't, some do only for their close circle.

And it definitely happened via fed checks. Difference is I had no easy recourse to fix it (apply for vpin, send prints - f#$% no.) . Because of the NH POC this got fixed for me without BS federal process. And I am not alone, which is why I wanted you to talk to a more experienced person on the subject.

You seem to have huge faith in the fed government, I do not. I would always rather see things like this handled in state. I get that feds can do it more efficiently but prefer having better fail safes in place.

There was a bill on the table at one point that spelled out a better process for fed NICs appeals - gave hard time limits on responses and allowed one to bring suit in their local district fed court. Didn't go anywhere of course, but with something like that in place I would agree with you - given the current process, no.

 

[teamRR]

This bill is related, guarantees attorney fees paid, requires resolution within 60 days, and requires a hearing in front of a judge, but lacks the local district court part I read in another or previous version..

There is a reason this is being pushed.

Text - H.R.1817 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Firearm Due Process Protection Act

Text for H.R.1817 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Firearm Due Process Protection Act

www.congress.gov

 

[42!]

No you are wrong on that, you are assuming the FFL transfers upon default proceed - which this one does not. Some do, some don't, some do only for their close circle.

No assumption made. That's on your FFL not the Fed system. The system says they can proceed, if your chosen FFL thinks you're too sketchy to do that, that's between you and your chosen FFL. Don't drag this into it.

And it definitely happened via fed checks. Difference is I had no easy recourse to fix it (apply for vpin, send prints - f#$% no.) . Because of the NH POC this got fixed for me without BS federal process. And I am not alone, which is why I wanted you to talk to a more experienced person on the subject.

Wait, now you are saying it's happened on a fed check as well, and you know why. And you know how to fix it permanently by just getting a vpin. But you choose to not do that and then gripe about it. BTW I know more than a few in MA who got their vpin before ever being delayed or denied and just wrote it on the back of their LTC. It's not a big deal, you're creating a problem to gripe about.

You seem to have huge faith in the fed government, I do not. I would always rather see things like this handled in state. I get that feds can do it more efficiently but prefer having better fail safes in place.

Nope, no faith in them whatsoever. I've worked closely with the fed on fed contracts, and I came away thinking most of them are a pure waste of O2. And I work with the state people now on a daily basis, and while some seem to try, the group as a whole is incapable of doing this any better. But we pay extra for the privlege of the state screwing it up, and I don't see any point to that. And what failsafe? The state can simply ignore you, just not respond, it's on you to chase them.

There was a bill on the table at one point that spelled out a better process for fed NICs appeals - gave hard time limits on responses and allowed one to bring suit in their local district fed court. Didn't go anywhere of course, but with something like that in place I would agree with you - given the current process, no.

But the state, with the same lack of accountability, and having no limit on a delay (something the fed does not have), that's ok with you?

Again, they didn't say why they blocked you because it was their mistake. And because they fixed it AFTER you got an attorney involved, you say how great they are. Seriously?

 

[teamRR]

No assumption made. That's on your FFL not the Fed system. The system says they can proceed, if your chosen FFL thinks you're too sketchy to do that, that's between you and your chosen FFL. Don't drag this into it.

Wait, now you are saying it's happened on a fed check as well, and you know why. And you know how to fix it permanently by just getting a vpin. But you choose to not do that and then gripe about it. BTW I know more than a few in MA who got their vpin before ever being delayed or denied and just wrote it on the back of their LTC. It's not a big deal, you're creating a problem to gripe about.


Nope, no faith in them whatsoever. I've worked closely with the fed on fed contracts, and I came away thinking most of them are a pure waste of O2. And I work with the state people now on a daily basis, and while some seem to try, the group as a whole is incapable of doing this any better. But we pay extra for the privlege of the state screwing it up, and I don't see any point to that. And what failsafe? The state can simply ignore you, just not respond, it's on you to chase them.

But the state, with the same lack of accountability, and having no limit on a delay (something the fed does not have), that's ok with you?

Again, they didn't say why they blocked you because it was their mistake. And because they fixed it AFTER you got an attorney involved, you say how great they are. Seriously?

The state doesn't just ignore people, so you never need to sue them, that's the difference - find an example of someone suing NH over refusal to process an appeal or failing to "see the light" after a mistake was made. I don't think such exists - but it exists on the fed level, I provided those examples.

And having to send fingerprints into the feds to buy a gun is not a reasonable process - how is that reasonable?

 

[granitestater]

You guys are argueing over which is the better infringement New Hampshire or FBI? it is well known that New Hampshire has NEVER been instant. Always has taken at least 15 minutes usually closer to an hour because of the manner in which they input the data and run the check.

Enhanced permit will only be optional for a short period of time until some anti gun state rep decides it might be a good a idea to require everyone to get fingerprinted. No more optional every one in a data base.

the only proper and constitutional solution is to fully repeal instant check and go back to the way things were before 1998. Anything else is simply agreeing to have your rights infringed.

 

[42!]

The state doesn't just ignore people, so you never need to sue them, that's the difference - find an example of someone suing NH over refusal to process an appeal or failing to "see the light" after a mistake was made. I don't think such exists - but it exists on the fed level, I provided those examples.

And having to send fingerprints into the feds to buy a gun is not a reasonable process - how is that reasonable?

You admitted that they ignore you until you got a lawyer. That's being ignored.
You cited two cases, one regarding suppressors, so not relevant, and the other about not getting legal fees after withdrawing the case, it doesn't work that way, also not relevant and wouldn't be any different with the state.

I guess I just don't give a shat abou fingerprints anymore, after two FFLs, two Local PD background checks, another Fed check, a NH state check, oh wait I almost forgot NH passed them on for yet another fed check, I'm pretty sure I am who I say I am...... And that list doesn't even include the one time I was arrested.
Get over it, you're just looking for an excuse. I'll bet if you put your social # on the 4477 it would go through no problem, oh but wait, you can't go giving that number to the fed........who issued it in the first place.

 

[42!]

You guys are argueing over which is the better infringement New Hampshire or FBI? it is well known that New Hampshire has NEVER been instant. Always has taken at least 15 minutes usually closer to an hour because of the manner in which they input the data and run the check.

You are correct. The argument is about which is the better, or easier, or at least cheaper, system. The fact that any system exists is a separate issue, and probably a lot simpler.

 

[teamRR]

You admitted that they ignore you until you got a lawyer. That's being ignored.
You cited two cases, one regarding suppressors, so not relevant, and the other about not getting legal fees after withdrawing the case, it doesn't work that way, also not relevant and wouldn't be any different with the state.

I guess I just don't give a shat abou fingerprints anymore, after two FFLs, two Local PD background checks, another Fed check, a NH state check, oh wait I almost forgot NH passed them on for yet another fed check, I'm pretty sure I am who I say I am...... And that list doesn't even include the one time I was arrested.
Get over it, you're just looking for an excuse. I'll bet if you put your social # on the 4477 it would go through no problem, oh but wait, you can't go giving that number to the fed........who issued it in the first place.

I did not need to have a lawyer contact them, could've done it myself, but I chose to - and the $150 I paid for them to contact the state was more than worth it. And I always put my SS on there, like your prints - they got it already.

Maybe I could've picked better cases, but neither is irrelevant. Because they left him no choice the guy spent $10,000 in the process of suing the feds then they reversed their stance (because a judge was going to reverse it for them if not).. And NFA has no additional prohibiting factors over a regular background check (other than doing the form right).. just another false denial and .gov dancing around allowing a real appeals process.

The way it ought to work is you get denied, you automatically get a hearing with a judge if you want one, within a few weeks, near where you live. NH has a process closer to that than the feds

Obviously you prefer speed to the ability to resolve problems, I prefer a more straightforward way to resolve worst case scenarios to speed: for me, call a lawyer, let them handle it, is preferable to filling out forms and hoping they listen - any such problem arising in NH I am confident will be fixed, feds not so confident about.

 

[granitestater]

I did not need to have a lawyer contact them, could've done it myself, but I chose to - and the $150 I paid for them to contact the state was more than worth it. And I always put my SS on there, like your prints - they got it already.

Maybe I could've picked better cases, but neither is irrelevant. Because they left him no choice the guy spent $10,000 in the process of suing the feds then they reversed their stance (because a judge was going to reverse it for them if not).. And NFA has no additional prohibiting factors over a regular background check (other than doing the form right).. just another false denial and .gov dancing around allowing a real appeals process.

The way it ought to work is you get denied, you automatically get a hearing with a judge if you want one, within a few weeks, near where you live. NH has a process closer to that than the feds

Obviously you prefer speed to the ability to resolve problems, I prefer a more straightforward way to resolve worst case scenarios to speed: for me, call a lawyer, let them handle it, is preferable to filling out forms - any such problem arising in NH I am confident will be fixed, feds not so confident about.

New Hampshire still allows residents to remove their social security number from their drivers records. Also, even if they have it, the FFL does not and does not need it. Data security.

but as I said above, this entire scheme needs to be repealed.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Enhanced permit will only be optional for a short period of time until some anti gun state rep decides it might be a good a idea to require everyone to get fingerprinted. No more optional every one in a data base.

In the 15 states where enhanced is optional, they have not made it mandatory. Even in Fudd/Libtard VT with all of their infringements, because of the 1902 State Supreme Court decision they haven't even instituted any kind of permit system (none needed - none issued).

Getting fingerprinted is nothing other than an inconvenience. The ATF needed to contact me once about a firearm sale. I had no public record at the time (not on any property, voting roll, phone book or anything else. (This was pre-Google days, since anyone can find anybody now). They called and went so far as to ask if I was still working at a certain location, although no one except for my spouse (and the employer) had that info. If they want you, or want to know who you are, they will.