He's talking about if the online portal transaction fails.
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I'm without words on this one.
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transaction reporting responsability...
- Thread starter milktree
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There is at least one legal way in which a person would own a firearm that is not recorded in an eFA-10 transaction, and that firearm could legally be sold and there would be no flag.
For example: a MA resident buys a gun. FA 10 system records the purchase transaction. MA resident moves to NH, sells gun to NH resident. FA 10 system has no record of this transaction. New NH owner moves to MA, brings gun and gets LTC. FA 10 system still has no record of the new owner owning the gun, as far as MA knows it is still "registered" to the original owner. If the new owner sells the gun, FA 10 system will record sale.
Can they generate a list and come knock on your door? Yes, and they will. Will that list be accurate? Not necessarily. Use the search function, people on here have seen what the state thinks they have and it hasn't always matched up
tl;Dr version: is the FA-10 system a de facto registry? Yes, but there are loopholes and it does not work as "well" as an actual registry does. I grew up in a state with actual firearm registration, and that's a different thing
When you sell a firearm to an FFL they do not give you anything other than a bill of sale and no EFA-10 is entered into the system. This there is no "transfer record" to transfer the firearm from you to anybody else. The same holds true if you transfer a firearm out of state through an FFL... there is no MA EFA-10 filed.
Questions for the legal gurus:
I just waded through MGL 140 s128A, and got confused by the legalese.
It seems to say that the seller may sell to, among others, a federal FFL, but, even then must do the portal pre-check and transaction registration.
1. Does this mean that the seller is responsible even though when selling to a Mass dealer, the dealer seems to do the transaction registration?
2. Does this also mean that a sale of a long gun out-of-state must, according to Mass law wording, be allowed and registered through the portal?
I just waded through MGL 140 s128A, and got confused by the legalese.
It seems to say that the seller may sell to, among others, a federal FFL, but, even then must do the portal pre-check and transaction registration.
1. Does this mean that the seller is responsible even though when selling to a Mass dealer, the dealer seems to do the transaction registration?
2. Does this also mean that a sale of a long gun out-of-state must, according to Mass law wording, be allowed and registered through the portal?
don't not check none of the double negatives.
er...
There's a lot of "section squirrel shall not apply to acorns not of the nut family who are not unlicensed by section beaver" language.
i.e. there's a "dealer as defined by MA law" exception.
Neither MA or non-MA dealers are going to do an eFA-10 thru the portal for a gun that they purchase/put on consignment/trade-in from you, period.
Jason Guida when he was FRB Director insisted that FA-10s MUST be done in these cases, but admitted that dealers laughed at him when he told them that and thus it fell on us to do so after a sale/trade to a dealer. Then the portal happened which will NOT allow said electronic transaction unless you have a MA DEALER # to put on said e-form. Paper forms are non-existent, thus it's a catch-22 to expect anyone to do this.
At this point my answer is to not worry about it and merely staple your dealer receipt to your copy of the FA-10 from when you purchased the gun and call it done.
Jason Guida when he was FRB Director insisted that FA-10s MUST be done in these cases, but admitted that dealers laughed at him when he told them that and thus it fell on us to do so after a sale/trade to a dealer. Then the portal happened which will NOT allow said electronic transaction unless you have a MA DEALER # to put on said e-form. Paper forms are non-existent, thus it's a catch-22 to expect anyone to do this.
At this point my answer is to not worry about it and merely staple your dealer receipt to your copy of the FA-10 from when you purchased the gun and call it done.
While we're at it:
128B says anyone who obtains a gun *not* from another LTC holder or MA dealer must report its details within seven days, using the language, "must report in writing", but *nothing* about the portal.
It doesn't even say, "on forms provided by...."
The obvious reading (and I know there's no case law) is that person to person sales within the state require the use of the online portal, but any other acquisitions (inheritance, out of state purchases of long guns or C&R guns, home made/home built guns) just need to be reported in writing. That could mean "serialized FA10", or "PDF FA10", or even "in crayon on construction paper".
Link to the statute:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section128B
128B says anyone who obtains a gun *not* from another LTC holder or MA dealer must report its details within seven days, using the language, "must report in writing", but *nothing* about the portal.
It doesn't even say, "on forms provided by...."
The obvious reading (and I know there's no case law) is that person to person sales within the state require the use of the online portal, but any other acquisitions (inheritance, out of state purchases of long guns or C&R guns, home made/home built guns) just need to be reported in writing. That could mean "serialized FA10", or "PDF FA10", or even "in crayon on construction paper".
Link to the statute:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section128B
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
I have a headache. Jack.
Wait a second. When you move a gun into this state, you have x number of days to file an FA 10. So the bolded part, that would be an illegal gun in MA, according to the letter of the law. I'm not aware of any legal way to have an unregistered gun. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
If I buy a rifle in NH, I could just not bother to register it here in MA, but pretty sure if it was found on my property for whatever reason, I'd be in trouble.
ETA: Furthermore, to be totally legal beagle, wouldn't you, if you move from NH to MA, you'd need to store your guns in NH, apply in your MA town, and wait for the license before bringing the gun with you. Unless there is some type of exemption for moving in. I think? Maybe? There is an exemption for service members returning from duty with their firearm, and a grace period, but I could be wrong about that too.
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Nope. If you move into MA with guns, the guns do not need to be FA-10ed. You would be unable to FA-10 them anyway because you wouldn't yet have an LTC. Any guns brought in after your move/after your LTC is issued fall under the 7 day FA-10 requirement.
You are wrong.
You have 7 days to register a gun you bring into MA.
Please explain to me how a new resident can do this within 7 days to comply with the law . . . when it takes months to get a LTC??????
You can't register anything without a LTC/FID #.
Therefore, MGL carved out this ONE exemption to the requirement to register all guns in MA.
Wow, Ok. So, you can move from NH with your guns onto MA, and not register them and not have a license. How long are you exempt?
What happens if you move into MA on day 1, a Saturday, with your guns. On day 2 Sunday, you belt your wife and she gets an emergency restraining order and tells the police you have guns. When the police arrive at your door, to take the guns, are they also arresting you for felony possession? Or just serving you the
restraining order?
Or do you just tell the cops that you were planning on applying for the ltc on day3, Monday?
I'm just curious.
The exemption applies for 60 days after moving. It also applies to MA residents who have been gone for at least 180 days. See https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129c
Section 128A (too big and convoluted to quote) includes the requirement to use the portal.
Really? Quote the bit where 128A applies to an inherited gun, or one bought out of state, or one you make yourself.
By my "not a lawyer, but I try to understand this stuff" reading:
128A is about transfers that take place in MA between individuals.
128B is bout all other acquisitions.
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I misread your post and assumed it was also about the seller's requirements.
Oh, come on, we've had way more disjointed threads than this! This is nothing!
This is on the portal, does it apply to the question (selling to a dealer or trading in to a dealer) I wonder? Thanks
6. I am selling my weapons to a licensed gun dealer. Do I need to file a record of that sale?
Yes! In order to comply with other provisions of the firearms laws, Massachusetts allows aperson to exceed the 4‐weapon‐per‐year sales limit only when selling weapons to a licenseddealer. (G.L. c. 140, § 128A)However, the reporting provisions apply to all transactions, whether or not the transfer is to adealer or to a private party. Consequently, a transaction record must be filed anytime a weaponis transferred.Apart from the criminal penalties associated for failing to report a weapon transaction, therequirement to file a transfer record for all weapon transactions makes practical sense. Anyinquiry into the true owner of a weapon always begins with the last owner on record. When aperson fails to file a transaction record, the transferred weapon remains in that person’s nameand a trace of the weapon will lead law enforcement to that person. Remember, the criminal penalties associated with failing to report a weapon transaction areimposed on the seller of the weapon, not the buyer. (G.L. c. 140, § 128A)Contact the FRB at [email protected] if you have questions as to whether or not you need torecord a transaction.
free, in that case (I agree with doing it) they should modify the online form to accept such transactions. As of my most recent check, if you don't have a MA DEALER # (similar to our LTC # but starting with "D") the online portal will not allow you to proceed. And no PDs stock hardcopy forms (only way to really do this), so you are SOL if you try.
Good point. It worked for me but only because I knew the ma dealer #. I traded in a Sig to FS. They gave me the yellow simple receipt. They did not do the efa 10, beth said no need to.
It was only months later, when I read another mind bending thread like this one, when I said to myself, myself why not if I try to do the efa 10 to reflect the transfer, even though FS did not. So I did and it worked of course. I just happened to hsve their ma dealer# on other forms from when I bought from them, like many of us. Thanks.
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We're talking about Massachusetts gun laws.
You can't really expect coherence or even consistency.
just ask the dealer for it and tell them why you need it, that's what I do and have done and the dealers have provided it. You can also find their number on any FA10 you got from them when you bought a gun at some point.
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
I agree. However try that at KTP and let me know how that works out for you.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Yeah, for the people interested in this bizarre practice of self-flagellation of reporting sales that go out to dealers, what do those weirdos do if they sell a gun to a remote FFL?
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Otherwise, the gun is STILL IN THEIR NAME ZOMG!!!!! -Mike
