Toddler Kills Self with Gun Found in Parents' Car

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, it was Down South.

Down South there are some very serious differences in their gun laws that make the original story quite plausible.

- Many states do NOT require any permit to have a loaded gun in a vehicle as long as it is in a glove box/other compartment. [Do NOT try this in MA even with a LTC-A/ALP.]

- Many Southern States prohibit bringing a gun in anyplace that sells liquor. I am told that many "convenience marts" (part of most gas stations) sell liquor in the South. Thus, people must put the gun in a glove box/other compartment while going into the store even if just paying for gas.

- Kids "loose" in cars is more common that folks in MA may like to believe. There may not be any laws mandating child seats in cars down there (I don't know). Last week when I came out of Costco's there was an extended family of ~5 adults and 3+ kids (all under 2' tall) that also were heading to their cars. One vehicle was a small SUV (seats 4-5 max) and 3 adults and 3 kids got in. Guaranteed that there were no child seats in that vehicle. Two adults headed off to another vehicle that I couldn't see.

There have been a few times when my Wife and I purposely met up at the gas station, bringing both cars there simply to gas up. There may be something suspicious here or it may be nothing at all.

Yes, parents are responsible to keep the gun away from the little ones. Time will tell what really happened here.

 

[C-pher]

Yes, it was Down South.

Down South there are some very serious differences in their gun laws that make the original story quite plausible.

- Many states do NOT require any permit to have a loaded gun in a vehicle as long as it is in a glove box/other compartment. [Do NOT try this in MA even with a LTC-A/ALP.]

I think that you are correct, if I remember correctly (I went to school at Ole Miss) you could have a loaded gun in your vehicle as it was an extension of your personal property. I don't know if the laws have changed as I left the South back in 94. So things might not be the same.

- Many Southern States prohibit bringing a gun in anyplace that sells liquor. I am told that many "convenience marts" (part of most gas stations) sell liquor in the South. Thus, people must put the gun in a glove box/other compartment while going into the store even if just paying for gas.

This also is correct...many bars, including Fridays, Applebee's have signs that read something to the effect of no firearms are allowed where Alcohol is served. I don't remember about Quicky Marts, as I don't know if it's considered "served" as it's not an open container.

- Kids "loose" in cars is more common that folks in MA may like to believe. There may not be any laws mandating child seats in cars down there (I don't know). Last week when I came out of Costco's there was an extended family of ~5 adults and 3+ kids (all under 2' tall) that also were heading to their cars. One vehicle was a small SUV (seats 4-5 max) and 3 adults and 3 kids got in. Guaranteed that there were no child seats in that vehicle. Two adults headed off to another vehicle that I couldn't see.

I'm pretty sure that it's a law in every state now that you have to have a child seat.

 

[Nickle]

Here's an Alternate Scenario:

Dad and Mom get into a knock-down, drag out fight.

Mom grabs kid and splits; Dad gives chase.

Dad catches Mom at the gas station and the fight resumes.

While Dad tries to drag Mom out of her car and into his, one pulls a gun and they struggle for control of it.

BANG!

Blaming the now-dead kid is easier than the truth.

Just a possible interpretation of events.

Sounds much more probable than the official one, for sure.

 

[KMaurer]

Fair to say that it's Mr. and Mrs. Robinson????

Objection! Assuming facts not in evidence.

Poor kid. Criminally careless and dumb parents.

Ken

 

[dwarven1]

Yes, it was Down South.

Down South there are some very serious differences in their gun laws that make the original story quite plausible.

- Many states do NOT require any permit to have a loaded gun in a vehicle as long as it is in a glove box/other compartment. [Do NOT try this in MA even with a LTC-A/ALP.]

Strangely enough, I was just reading an article that explained that a car in Lousiana is considered an extension of one's home, so a gun is perfectly legal as long as you keep it in the car without a carry permit.

 

[06LemansC6]

I can think of a number of reasons a 3yo might be out at that hour. Returning from a flight is one of them.

The real issue here is that a 3yo shouldn't be able to get hold of a gun, especially with a round chambered (and don't give me the BS about 'my 3yo blah blah blah'). The parents should be up for manslaughter charges.

I couldn't agree more. We have had our children out that late on occasion albeit not often. Most often it would be when we have dinner at family or friends house. We have also had some flights at odd hours quite possibly due to delays. It pisses me off when it is assumed that something must be astray if you have your own children out at an hour that may not be considered acceptable to some. They are my kids I don't need to answer to anyone as to why I may have them at any given place at any given hour. Simply put it isn't anyone else's business as to why.

The parents should at the very least be charged with manslaughter and child endangerment.

 

[matt]

Sad.

Whatever happens to them, they've received their punishment.

Not even close. A parent wreckless, selfish, and stupid enough to allow that access to loaded gun is deserving of more punishment than just loosing thier child.

 

[Underwhere]

What was a 3 year old doing unsupervised in a car at Midnight?

 

[C-pher]

Objection! Assuming facts not in evidence.

Poor kid. Criminally careless and dumb parents.

Ken

Hey, it was more of a question than a statement.

Strangely enough, I was just reading an article that explained that a car in Lousiana is considered an extension of one's home, so a gun is perfectly legal as long as you keep it in the car without a carry permit.

Basicly what I said above...but that article pisses me off. Almost glad that I left NOLA...well, at I was in Jefferson Parish, so I had to deal with JP cops. And I found them to be much more fair than NOPD.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What was a 3 year old doing unsupervised in a car at Midnight?

Well, what if you are gassing up the car? Do you take your 3 year old out of the car and let him run around the gas station? Hold him in your arms as you pump gas?

Inquiring minds want to know what you would do?

 

[06LemansC6]

What was a 3 year old doing unsupervised in a car at Midnight?

I still fail to see how the time of day is relevant.

 

[kiver]

Well, what if you are gassing up the car? Do you take your 3 year old out of the car and let him run around the gas station? Hold him in your arms as you pump gas?

Inquiring minds want to know what you would do?

Personally....I pull into the gas station and pay at the pump...If its a cash deal, I pull both children out of thier car seats and drag them into the gas station with me. It's a real pain in the ass but I trust absolutly no one...especially at midnight. And I would never leave an unsecured firearm in the car...EVER

 

[Len-2A Training]

Personally....I pull into the gas station and pay at the pump...If its a cash deal, I pull both children out of their car seats and drag them into the gas station with me. It's a real pain in the ass but I trust absolutely no one...especially at midnight. And I would never leave an unsecured firearm in the car...EVER

Yes, but if you pay at the pump, gas up the car yourself . . . do you drag the kids out of the car while you are pumping gas.

My point is that you can be 3' away from your kid and they can still get in deadly trouble.

 

[Garys]

Ok, but for the kid to have that last name...one of them had to be. Otherwise they wouldn't be his parents.

Which doesn't mean that they are married. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the fact that they had the kid out at Midnight weighs towards them not being married.

 

[06LemansC6]

I HAVE TO ASK.....Why does everyone keep pointing out the time of day. Why does it matter that it was MIDNIGHT. How can any conclusion be drawn about anything based on it being midnight??? Please enlighten me.

 

[Garys]

Here's an Alternate Scenario:

Dad and Mom get into a knock-down, drag out fight.

Mom grabs kid and splits; Dad gives chase.

Dad catches Mom at the gas station and the fight resumes.

While Dad tries to drag Mom out of her car and into his, one pulls a gun and they struggle for control of it.

BANG!

Blaming the now-dead kid is easier than the truth.

Just a possible interpretation of events.

Very plausible. Wasn't there a case in Boston not too long ago where a small kid got shot and the family tried to blame it on another kid in the family? I forget the details, but I'm sure someone here remembers it.

 

[dwarven1]

Which doesn't mean that they are married. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the fact that they had the kid out at Midnight weighs towards them not being married.

Uh... OK, I guess that means that MY parents weren't married because I sure remember being in the car with them late at night on trips!

Seriously... WTF is this fetish about the kid being out late with HIS PARENTS?

 

[C-pher]

Well, what if you are gassing up the car? Do you take your 3 year old out of the car and let him run around the gas station? Hold him in your arms as you pump gas?

Inquiring minds want to know what you would do?

My kids stay in thier seats while I'm gassing up. The only reason they would be out of their seats is if there's no "Pay at the Pump." I won't go inside the store and leave them in the car alone. Even if it's a "quick" stop.

 

[Garys]

Uh... OK, I guess that means that MY parents weren't married because I sure remember being in the car with them late at night on trips!

Seriously... WTF is this fetish about the kid being out late with HIS PARENTS?

Because when I see kids out late at night, it's generally with unsavory characters. For example, I'll see someone with a baby in a stroller in the theater district at 1 in the morning. From the adults appearance, they aren't coming from a nearby hotel and taking a cranky kid out for a stroll. Or I'll see three or four kids with one adult walking around in the same area during the middle of the night. It's out of place activity. Which doesn't automatically make it suspicious because you have to take the totality of the circumstances into account.

A three year old kid would normally be home at that time of night. The times my kids were out that late we were coming home from a trip, not just casually going out to get gas.

It's the time and circumstances, not just the time. You have to put the entire picture together and the time is one piece of it.

 

[06LemansC6]

Anyone remember the young woman that got killed by a bouncer in NYC? It kept getting brought up that she was out alone at 3 in the morning. Almost as if she was asking to get killed because she was out alone at such an hour. Why not just let .gov put a curfew on all activity at night? It is pretty sad when an adult is thought to be in the wrong for being out at after midnight in America. Apparently it is even worse if an adult decides to take their own children out past an hour that others deem as appropriate.

I remember when my niece was an infant. She was very colicky. One of the few things that would help soothe her was strapping her into her car seat and going for a ride. Something my brother and sister-in-law often did. Quite frequently during hours that apparently many folks feel is inappropriate to do during such late night hours.

 

[jairadio]

Another shocking event for all gun owners.

Personally I think anyone with a firearm, especially in a motor vehicle, should have the gun in a holster on his person only. No matter what time of day it is.

Forget under the seat, forget in the glove box, forget in the console.

The whole tragic result could have been avoided with using just plane common sense.

It really sucks to be reading this needless bullshit because someone has their head up their ass.

 

[06LemansC6]

Another shocking event for all gun owners.

Personally I think anyone with a firearm, especially in a motor vehicle, should have the gun in a holster on his person only. No matter what time of day it is.

Forget under the seat, forget in the glove box, forget in the console.

The whole tragic result could have been avoided with using just plane common sense.

I agree. Since I have children my gun is either on my person or in the safe. No exceptions.

 

[dwarven1]

I remember when my niece was an infant. She was very colicky. One of the few things that would help soothe her was strapping her into her car seat and going for a ride. Something my brother and sister-in-law often did. Quite frequently during hours that apparently many folks feel is inappropriate to do during such late night hours.

Excellent point; I have a couple of friends who's daughter is soothed in just such a way.

Any way you slice it, though, there's some serious negligence involved in leaving a gun where a three-year-old can get at it. I don't care how well behaved Jose's kids are, a three-year-old has NO BUSINESS being in arm's reach of an unsecured, loaded handgun. As has been tragically proven. Safe storage laws have nothing to do with it, either - it's common sense, which is all too uncommon, apparently. [sad2]

 

[kiver]

Yes, but if you pay at the pump, gas up the car yourself . . . do you drag the kids out of the car while you are pumping gas.

My point is that you can be 3' away from your kid and they can still get in deadly trouble.

My kid could be three feet away from me at anytime and be in danger...I am not denying accidents happen....this is negligence. And when I gas up the kids are both snuggly in thier five point restraints on thier car seats....and they know how mad daddy gets if they try to get out of them.

 

[Len-2A Training]

My kids stay in thier seats while I'm gassing up. The only reason they would be out of their seats is if there's no "Pay at the Pump." I won't go inside the store and leave them in the car alone. Even if it's a "quick" stop.

I agree 100%. That's why I pointed it out.

- If you are at the pump, most responsible thing to do is keep the kids buckled in, within the car.

- If you have to go inside the store (and another adult isn't in the car), the most responsible thing to do is take the kids with you.

Another shocking event for all gun owners.

Personally I think anyone with a firearm, especially in a motor vehicle, should have the gun in a holster on his person only. No matter what time of day it is.

Forget under the seat, forget in the glove box, forget in the console.

The whole tragic result could have been avoided with using just plane common sense.

It really sucks to be reading this needless bullshit because someone has their head up their ass.

You can think what you'd like, but many Southern States have laws that prohibit carry (at least w/o permit) in a car, but specifically ALLOW storage under seat/in console/in glovebox w/o permit.

You can't use MA rules/laws to parse an event in another state w/o regard to their rules/laws.

 

[06LemansC6]

You can think what you'd like, but many Southern States have laws that prohibit carry (at least w/o permit) in a car, but specifically ALLOW storage under seat/in console/in glovebox w/o permit.

You can't use MA rules/laws to parse an event in another state w/o regard to their rules/laws.

Then they should get a CCW or don't put the gun and children in the same car at the same time. As a parent it becomes your job to keep your kids as safe as you can. There is no reason this should ever happen.

 

[kiver]

I agree 100%. That's why I pointed it out.

- If you are at the pump, most responsible thing to do is keep the kids buckled in, within the car.

- If you have to go inside the store (and another adult isn't in the car), the most responsible thing to do is take the kids with you.



You can think what you'd like, but many Southern States have laws that prohibit carry (at least w/o permit) in a car, but specifically ALLOW storage under seat/in console/in glovebox w/o permit.

You can't use MA rules/laws to parse an event in another state w/o regard to their rules/laws.

Mississippi car seat laws....under 4 car seat is reqired by law
http://babyproducts.about.com/od/statecarseatlaws/qt/miss_cps.htm


leaving an unsecured loaded firearm in a car with a 3 yo kid...no excuses..pure negligence whether it is law or not

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'll readily agree that it was parental negligence at work here, probably on multiple levels (car seat, where/how gun was stored, etc.).

I just wanted to point out that CCW "may not" have been an option here and one must understand the laws where something happens to make sense of what the "right thing" should have been.

 

[jairadio]

LENS Quote-You can think what you'd like, but many Southern States have laws that prohibit carry (at least w/o permit) in a car, but specifically ALLOW storage under seat/in console/in glovebox w/o permit.

I know what I am doing will prevent a child, as is this case, ending up in a morgue. That's how I handle my firearm.

 

[C-pher]

Another shocking event for all gun owners.

Personally I think anyone with a firearm, especially in a motor vehicle, should have the gun in a holster on his person only. No matter what time of day it is.

Forget under the seat, forget in the glove box, forget in the console.

Then they should get a CCW or don't put the gun and children in the same car at the same time.

OK, coming from a point of view as a Southerner.

Many states don't have a CCW law. Therefore carrying is illegal. So, you're saying, that because I have a child, I should break the law.

When, as was pointed out, a car is an extension of my home. Therefore storage in my car is legal.


Now, before you freak out...I'm not saying that that gives them the right to do it irresponsibly. But, none the less....just because I have children...I'm to break the law. Knowing that safe storage of a firearm in a vehicle is legal?