The future generation is scaring me...

[Cato]

I don't think that video games change the attitude or behavior of the kids who play them. Quite the opposite.

Manufacturers of video games simple fill a demand, they do not create one. There has been a breakdown in the moral fabric of our society for a long time. The types of video games that kids play are a result of this values and morals change not the cause.

 

[bolt]

Never mind that think of the education level. All the .gov wants is TAXPAYERS.

 

[DickWanner]

What about the opposite? I think that real guns/training have made me better at video games


Seriously though, as a 24yo intructor I'm one of the few young intructors that I know. We almost have an obligation as 19-25 aged shooters to help educate our peers and younger peers becuase we have that age relation to them that a someone 30+ wouldn't have. I for one will never turn down knowledge to anyone willing to receive it.

 

[GunGrey]

So while at the range that I frequent, there were two younger kids there giggling and fooling around with a ruger 10/22. They were also all 'tacticooled' out, wearing cheap assault vests, empty thigh-rigs, 3-day assault packs. I had my AR15 and Glock 19, which they seemed to be interested in. They approached me after a while and asked if they could try it. I asked if they had ever shot one before, which one responded, "oh, I unlocked all the accessories for the M4 and in my 7th prestige in Modern Warfare 2. I know how to use it." Needless to say, I quickly took my rifle back and had to painfully explain to them how to use it correctly. Upon shooting my rifle, they started complaining how loud it was.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've noticed an increasing amount of younger kids who think that, by playing video games, they're somehow firearm experts. Granted, I myself am only 22. But it's still a scary thought, knowing that these kids will someday undoubtedly be buying firearms soon.

This is why I go to the range on weekday mornings if can go at all, the fudds are most likely working and the ninjas are still asleep from playing video games all night. I suggest you follow suit.

Now you mentioned they had thigh rigs on, where they even shooting any pistols? Thats just has poser written all over it. And I cant believe he dropped the COD stats on you like they actually mean somthing. The only thing COD has done for me is make me want more firearms. Best thing to do when you see this people is just to pretty much stay away cause they are more than likely doing somthing idiotic.

Now im just about 21 and I cannot stand people around my age, especially when it comes to firearms and politics. As im writing this theres a fricken tool sitting next to me in the computer lab, who just made a comment about the picture in the under 1000$ battle rifle thread. I kinda hate college execept for the parties, women and classes. `

 

[Crettis]

...

Now im just about 21 and I cannot stand people around my age, especially when it comes to firearms and politics. As im writing this theres a fricken tool sitting next to me in the computer lab, who just made a comment about the picture in the under 1000$ battle rifle thread. I kinda hate college execept for the parties, women and classes. `

Agreed. All my close friends are a lot older than me, save one or two from high school.

 

[massaiga]

I currently have a young daughter. At the time of this story she was just over two years old. She is currently coming up on her third birthday.

In an attempt to find television programming that my wife and I could tolerate while still being "age appropriate" for our daughter we started watching Avatar: The Last Airbender in the evenings. For those of you that are unfamiliar this a cartoon with an official rating of "TV-Y7". It caries this rating due to "mild fantasy violence". If this cartoon were a movie it would likely carry a "PG" or "PG13" rating.

We knew that this was theoretically a little bit past her target age but we figured she could handle it. She is a very smart child who functions well beyond her age. Her entire life she has been playing with toys marked "3+" when she was only 18 months etc. because she mastered and got bored with "18mo" toys when she was 6 months old. She talks so well that most strangers think she is a very small 5 year old. She reads and writes at a "Dr Zeus" level. She can count to 20. Etc. All of these things made my wife and I comfortable with the programming level. Our daughter loved the show and it was interesting enough that my wife and I could actually enjoy watching it.

The story line of the show is very engaging for a children's show and we ended up enjoying it. But after watching an episode every day for about six weeks we started to notice that our daughter was starting to display some tendencies towards physical violence. She started kicking on the changing table. She started being physically aggressive when she had been bad and we were punishing her. A few times when she was acting her age and not getting what she wanted she even declared "No! I'm fighting you!" Clearly my daughter had picked up that violence was an acceptable way to resolve conflict. We had a few stern conversations with her; we applied the appropriate discipline; but most importantly my wife and I recognized the possible connection between the programming we were exposing her to and her behavior change. We changed our viewing habits and were a little more careful about what we exposed her to. In a very short amount of time my daughter's behavior improved. All in all I think we are doing a decent job of bringing her up.

Now I think that there is no Black and White here and clearly with age we develop a better ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality but this experience has taught me a simple lesson. What we see on TV, in the movies and in video games effects us. Period. Clearly these things effect a two year old way more that a twenty year old. But if you think that you can blow the heads off of highly realistic video game avatars with lots of blood and gore all day long and expect that there is zero effect on you... you are just fooling yourself.

I'm not saying that playing Doom will make you go on a murderous rampage at high school. I'm not saying it corrupts the youth. I'm not saying that anything other than this simple truth: EVERYTHING we as human beings experience leaves it's mark on our psyche. Whether the person experiencing it can tell the difference between reality and fantasy most likely has a large effect on how big a mark the experience leaves... but images of graphic violence will always be just that. We can argue about how big a mark the experience leaves, but big or small it does leave a mark. Maybe the mark left on an adult is so small it is not worth talking about... but clearly this is not the case for a two year old. So where is the dividing line? I think it is all shades of gray and the answer to that one is different for every person on the planet.

-MS

 

[bpm990d]

Lt.Col. Grossman is also an anti-gun kinda guy. I don't take anything he says too seriously. His theories have more holes than swiss cheese that have been machine gunned with an Uzi.

B

 

[cekim]

I currently have a young daughter. At the time of this story she was just over two years old. She is currently coming up on her third birthday.

In an attempt to find television programming that my wife and I could tolerate while still being "age appropriate" for our daughter we started watching Avatar: The Last Airbender in the evenings. For those of you that are unfamiliar this a cartoon with an official rating of "TV-Y7". It caries this rating due to "mild fantasy violence". If this cartoon were a movie it would likely carry a "PG" or "PG13" rating.
....
We can argue about how big a mark the experience leaves, but big or small it does leave a mark. Maybe the mark left on an adult is so small it is not worth talking about... but clearly this is not the case for a two year old. So where is the dividing line? I think it is all shades of gray and the answer to that one is different for every person on the planet.

-MS

Dude...

At 2yo kids' brains are really not capable of that sort of thing (even very smart ones need more context of life to deal with that). I know what you are talking about with "age appropriate material" (which BTW will continue to be a problem as you try to find books for her when she's reading well beyond grade level - its gotten better, but trying to find literary complexity without sex and violence is not just a job its an adventure).

BUT, no 2yo is not going to be able to handle that well. Some of them freak out at Barney and clowns... Their imaginations run wild and scare the crap out of them because they don't have a basic working knowledge of the boundaries of reality. It's not that they cannot distinguish Barney from a real dino, its that they have no idea whether such a creature exists and assume (as a function of evolution) that large unfamiliar things are going to eat them...

The issue is not whether things that we see and do are incorporated into our brains - of course they are. The issue is what do we do with that information?

The answer is that the other things that we know are not 'unlearned' from that experience. In the case of the 2yo, you are talking about dumping garbage on a blank slate... Not the same issue is what happens to an older child...

 

[massaiga]

BUT, no 2yo is not going to be able to handle that well.

In retrospect I agree with that and hence, we no longer watch it every night.

The issue is not whether things that we see and do are incorporated into our brains - of course they are. The issue is what do we do with that information?

The answer is that the other things that we know are not 'unlearned' from that experience. In the case of the 2yo, you are talking about dumping garbage on a blank slate... Not the same issue is what happens to an older child...

Agreed. But we all grow up at a different pace and some of us never grow up at all. Additionally I think that there are parts of the subconscious which never "grow up" in the sense we are talking about.

The only point I was making is that exposure to violent media has an effect on a person. For some people the effect will be very small, for others the effect could be substantial. But to say "I head shoot noobs all day long and I have not turned into a monster, therefor there is no effect." is shortsighted.

-MS

 

[soloman02]

"The America's Army series of free-to-play PC first-person shooters that double as recruitment tools has cost the US government $32.8 million over 10 years, according to data obtained through a GameSpot Freedom of Information Act request. "

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6242635.html

I loved AA when it was good (Version 1.4 to 2.7). I will say though that even though AA showed me the proper ways to load, arm, and reload an M16 (which is the same for an AR-15 minus the selector switch), it was not the real thing and I did not have any of the motor skills required to use an ar15 like a pro. I did have a familiarity with the firearm before using it though because I had seen the loading and reloading animations countless times. Even so, seeing it done countless times NEVER substitutes actual time using the firearm.

 

[wolf223]

not to derail this video game thread.. there ARE great American's in the "young" (which is highly subjective) category. go to your local VA, College, Restaurant, Mall ect.. you know, places OTHER than the Arcade, Range & Gun Show..

you'll see them. working, in school, in the military ect

 

[Bill Nance]

It's nothing new. Men have thought they were somehow genetically ingrained with knowledge of firearms since forever.

I'm constantly amazed at the lack of knowledge out there among every age group and every level of "experience" around guns.

I've seen people who have been around guns and hunting for their entire lives routinely show complete disregard for basic safety. They've just been lucky. A couple of those guys wound up in my class. One guy had the temerity to be offended when I grabbed the muzzle of a rifle that was about to sweep me and yelled at him. He wanted to show me his new gun.

There will always be stupid, careless people.

 

[MichaelJR]

If there's one thing about the kids younger than I that video games have reinforced(I'm 25), is that due to the video games.....they do not negotiate with terrorists, especially while on a kill streak. UAV activated.

 

[cekim]

If there's one thing about the kids younger than I that video games have reinforced(I'm 25), is that due to the video games.....they do not negotiate with terrorists, especially while on a kill streak. UAV activated.

Hacker!

 

[drgrant]

I'm not advocating banning violent media. I'm saying that it affects your psychological state. To say it doesn't have a measurable effect is ignorant.

What does that mean? That, by itself is a pretty vacant statement- in psychological terms that's like saying "the sky is blue" Without quantifying the statement, it doesn't do much but state the obvious.

I can take a dump in the morning and it might affect my psychological state. I might see a horrible car accident. I might have a pleasant conversation with a female. I might be sick. All of those things can have an effect on my psychological state. Further, they could be positive or negative influences. Or a combination of both.

Further, How could you reliably test for it? I don't think you really can effectively test "violent video games influencing real world violent tendencies" without putting people in a situation where they have to commit actual violent acts, up to and including causing the death of another human being. There are obviously real world moral/ethical limitations in psychology against doing so. To conduct a proper experiment would require that one go WAY beyond the things like the stanford/milgram experiments, for example. The only way you could probably do it and get reliable results without resorting to barbarism is via some sort of virtual reality simulator. Without tricking the person into believing they are in reality, you can't eliminate the effect of the person being influenced by the fact that the results are not real - it's a classic human condition problem.

There are lots of variables at play here, too. Obviously a young child is going to be influenced differently than a teenager or an adult, as their brains are all at different stages of development. Even children at the same age might have completely different levels of maturity and understanding. There's also simply no way to "control out" lots of things, too, for example, nature vs nurture, etc, etc. Cekim's example of the hardcore gamer kid going 110% emo clam/wussbag after firing a gun is a classic example of this. Every person is completely different.

FWIW if you can show me some interesting research on the subject that doesn't look like it was expelled straight from Jack Thompson's or Tipper Gore's rear end, I think it would be an interesting read, although I'd likely still remain pretty skeptical. Most of the crap that's out there is based on exposing someone to a "game" for some period f time and then making them take some sort of a test designed to prove the taker is now "more violent" as a result of having played the game.

I totally agree it's up to the parent to raise their child. It's also the parents choice if they want their children to be exposed to numerous acts of real or pretend violence via the media.

Yes, but realize past some point or another that it;'s possible for whatever shielding that is going on to have a negative effect. We live in a society where there are a bunch of moonbats that prance around going "violent videogames are bad because all violence is bad" constantly proselytizing the "violence is always bad" mantra, which basically sets kids up for various forms of personal failure.

I'm obviously not saying parents should start telling their 5 year old why a LEO or Soldier (or for that matter, joe citizen) had a good reason to kill someone, and then show him/her a video of the bloody corpse of the bad guy that just got killed, but there are some moonbat parents out there that keep up this charade with their kids well into adolescence. That's' why we see idiots quoted in newspapers that say stupid things like "Well, why didn't they just shoot the guy in the leg!!!?!?!?"

Also, some people do not have properly aligned moral compasses. That's the whole reason we have police and a justice system.

Agreed, and some of them are simply bats**t insane- eg, their moral compass is "missing" never mind misaligned.

Some of you guys are so paranoid that when someone says "you know that may not be good for you" you think the person wants the government to regulate and prohibit such acts.

It's because it first starts with "xyz is bad" and then someone says it often enough and then, like goebbels big lie theory, it starts to become the truth, and then eventually some idiot legislator believes those people, and then bans whatever XYZ is unless there are a substantial number of people around who are interested in defending XYZ.

We're "paranoid" about this kind of thing for a damned good reason. Every time some alarmist comes up with a new form of "moral panic" (which is what the "videogames are bad" crap is) dumb laws and prohibitionist crap usually follows it. This sort of thing is no different than the "playing that judas priest record backwards" stuff or death metal music making people violent, or many many years ago, the "knife control movement" induced by "gang" hysteria. Gun control was larded on us as a result of the "moral panic" caused by prohibition era gangbangers, and then the panic had "fluffers" like the JFK/RFK/MLK assasinations, among other things. Then people started prancing around going "buh wuh weah waaah guns are bad!!!! waaah!" like a bunch of morons.

The end result is that the fetish people having with banning things or trying to blame them for some problem, is that whatever it is, is not usually caused by the thing itself but rather the "lets ban stuff" discussion is a smokescreen or a cop out for some bigger problem that nobody wants to talk about, because its "too hard" or "too complicated". People want to blame things but they don't want to talk about how johnny's parents are scumbags or how some public school committee is completely incompetent. Objects are easy to blame for nearly any problem because they generally don't talk back or don't put up a fight.

-Mike

 

[ARV]

after reading these comments, I thought back to the last time I took the FAL and AK to the range...I think my performance was woefully inadequate...think I'll go fire up the PS3 and check back here after my skills are up to Navy Seal standards

 

[bolt]

They NEED to be kicked out @ 18 after HS, or given room and board they pay for @ home while in further education. 0r working at McDeees making 280.00 a week paying parents 33% for room and board. Or enlist, hey thats 3 options, pick one! I did. PS3^ pffffft^ That'll help you in life

 

[Rob Boudrie]

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."

Socrates

 

[cekim]

Socrates

Yeah, but a couple hundred years after he said that - look what happened... (sarcasm intended on the long timeline...)

 

[ARV]

I did. PS3^ pffffft^ That'll help you in life

Its pretty much my dvd/blueray player. Get bored with games after about 5 minutes. but it has been fun to take a couple friends to the range and show them game vs. reality.

 

[speedy]

Reaching out to the kids, even if they look like little tough guys, and you want to beat the cr** out of them is important. You won't be able to make an impact on all of them, but I bet most will remember the cool guy that let me fire his cool gun and gave me all this advice and tips. Need to plant that seed of encouragement. It may grow to be a NES member,LOL. Especially if they do not have a very supportive home. In that case the parents need the cr** beaten out of them. Young kids went to war for us and kicked but and still kicking but. I fear the Retards that kept MA the same, well mostly.