The 10mm Hi Point carbine is quite possibly one of the better 10mm carbines out there, even if it is cucked with proprietary mags. The reason being there aren't that many other 10mm PCC's around. There's the TNW, uses Glock mags, and just looks bland and unfun to shoot full power 10mm in such a light weight carbine.
It's easy to be the best when you're basically the only thing available.
The reason there aren't other options is there is no demand. The Hi Point engineer guy probably just sold it because its probably a couple of machining options different from their .45 model. So "why not?" at that point.
BTW, I hear the Hi Point 10mm runs .40 just fine.
I'm sure it does but sure thats a hi point owner type of thing.
It's obvious that people don't want 10mm in 1911's
Nah, it's more obvious that most gun buyers don't want 10mm period. The 1911 sales lacking is just emblematic of lack of demand for the caliber in general.
and some people either don't like Glocks or don't want to pay the price for the Glock in 10mm. It doesn't surprise me that the Glock is the best selling 10mm, it's only been on the market for 30+ years continuously, that tends to help.
If they can't afford a Glock then they have bigger problems. Especially if they're talking about launching 10mm out of it. I agree with the rest of that statement. Ergonomically the guns are a nightmare for some people, I get that part of it. People with oddly shaped hands, a G29 or G20 will beat them up a bit. That said, you had guns on the market like the witness 10mm, the XD 10mm, and now the smith 10mm, and they all are/were softer than fresh dog poop in sales. And none of those guns are/were terribly expensive.
But, offering alternative options in a less popular caliber can change the status quo.
I hate to break it to you, but it won't. It won't even make a dent. Just like the smith, just like the XD 10mm, the earlier witness steel guns, etc. The market is pretty fixed and not
expanding. This Taurus offering will change absolutely nothing about that. It'll give a handful of people another 10 to play with, but this isn't some radical paradigm shift. This is like
claiming that because Hyundai showed up it was going to change the entire car industry.
The part you are having difficulty with is just how small the existing 10mm market is. It's tiny. You know how they show those things about space with the relative size of the planets vs one another? And earth is usually this pin prick thing that you can barely see or maybe is the size of a pea? That's 10mm in a "gun universe" perspective view.
Sure, it's small, but it's apparently profitable enough that ammo manufacturers are able to make it for less than .45 ACP. That's not because they're using less lead, they're running off enough because demand is there.
Lol... 10mm demand is minimal bordering on the bottom of all sales. 10mm was one of the last calibers to disappear during the covid onslaught in 2020. I could reliably buy 10mm up until like the end of the summer.... at reasonable prices (relative to what 10mm usually costs) The same could not be said for most of the others.
Also no ammo manufacturer in their right mind is going to leave money on the table with 10mm if they don't have to compete over sales. Not sure if you realize this, but I would bet
nearly anything that the ammo industry is similar to other industries where the profit margins on less common stuff are cranked up a bit because they know the consumers in that segment will literally just pay the extra because they need the ammo more than they need to flint. 10mm is one of those calibers that is never going to move out of that pocket. The manufacturers have determined that people who buy commercial 10mm are not that price sensitive.
10mm hasn't had much time or success to sell that many pistols the past 30 years, it's kind of tough to build up a base for any handgun caliber that's been around for 50 or 100 years like 9, .45, .38, .357, and .44 have,
Using your shitlogic (TM) .44 mag should be cheap then, no? It's not, its pretty expensive despite being around forever. I mean the bullet doesn't weigh any more than a .45 does.... the reality is things like .44 mag and 10mm are priced the way they are because they can get the money for it. Nothing will ever change that because those calibers are well out of the mainstream by hundreds of miles.
As another example.... .38 SPL has been around forever, at one time it was DOMINANT, and is still popular amongst revolver shooters. It's crazy expensive now for what it
is. (actually since I started shooting, I think 38 has actually gone WAY up vs 9mm in relative terms in price. ) Why? Because the base will pay it. . The industry is not going to turn away free cash.
Even 38 though is still way higher ranking than 10mm auto is, in terms of raw sales. During covid BS 38 disappeared like 9mm, 380, 45 and even 40 did. 10mm outlasted even 40 because... nobody was buying it. Then eventually the enthusiasts like ourselves were like "shit, I better go clean up gun store X before someone figures it out) and then poof, the last of the pre covid 10mm was gone.
even ones like .25 and .32 are on the strugglebus because companies have stopped making them due to a change in consumer belief they're not good enough.
Lol how about no.... They're on the strugglebus because they are objectively terrible and nobody wants 25s or 32s. f***,. that... noise.
There are a whole host of reasons why those are basically dead calibers, but the primary one is because they are a terrible value prop vs a small .380 .
Actually they are probably far worse selling than 10 is, if only because 10mm is actually useful/marginally relevant.
I don't think anyone would say 10mm isn't enough gun for a dollar or two more a box than .45 is.
Nobody will say that ever because the people shopping for .45s are buying .45s and they don't care about 10mm. It's basically invisible to
most of them.
The holdup is it's not as cheap as 9mm,
It will never be as cheap as 9mm.
I'm not sure why you have trouble comprehending this fact.
$200 guns haven't been available for it like 9mm has had, and it doesn't have the 110 year headstart that .45 pistols have had that get passed down.
It's more complicated than that, also keyed into the fact that both of those are still prominent law enforcement calibers. 10mm was... for 10 seconds.
Even *puke* .40 S&W will continue to outsell 10mm, basically forever. Because .40 still is an LE caliber, and it has an installed base of probably millions of
guns. Oh and that gem of a cartridge didn't appear long after 10mm either.
When I talk to guys in their 20s and 30s there's a few calibers they talk about for pistols, 5.7 is first, 10mm is the second. Their focus is capacity and power, the 5.7 has the capacity, the 10mm has the power.
And both are basically novelties, for different reasons. Although you could at least argue that 10mm is infinitely more useful.
What stops them from buying into both is the ammo situation with 5.7 and 10mm it's lack of good, affordable options.
That is literally never going to change on the ammo front for either one of those. The market is not going to move for a couple of
hipsters. That's like a hipster approaching me at a cigar shop and going :
Hipster: "I would buy Torpedo shaped cigars if it wasn't cost inefficient relative to a toro"
Me: "I get it... but they're not going to leave money on the table because you and I think it's stupid. The market has already identified that it's not making that
vitola for price sensitive people, and that it would actually lose a lot of money by doing so. There are a ton of cigar sizes like this that harbor the same price inefficiency because of
the sales/marketing calculus involved in that price. The price involves more than simple supply/demand economics. "
The industry as a whole has basically NOTHING to gain by making 10mm cheap. It's not going to solve anything and will just make them less money. And those
weird hipsters you speak of that are cost sensitive are just going to buy something else. They're not going to go "if eeeeyey cant get a 10mm for $200 and ammo for 20 bux a
bawx then im not buying a gun at all!!!! *POUT* "
that simply is not reality.
I'll take your word for it that the S&W is shit, the Glock is tough for them to find at a good price (same probably goes for the Springfield), and everything else is a 1911.
I'll check in with these guys and see what they think on the Taurus 10mm.
Do they wear fedoras and have weird goatees?
Regardless these people do not represent mainstream handgun buyers. (the bulk of sales)
Let me put this out there nobody ever comes into a gun shop and says "what guns do you have in 10mm" they are more likely to say "do you have a G20/29/ smith / 1911 in 10mm"
whatever" because the avg 10mm buyer is not average to begin with, in any way. Even the boomer fudd that wants a 10mm is well outside of the median of all handgun buyers.
So, you think that if someone isn't willing to part with $300 on a pistol that they're probably only going to buy a couple boxes of ammo for, they shouldn't bother buying any guns?
Never said that, but rather that these people are usually idiots. Most of them are being cheap not on need (and anyone thats on a REAL budget is not looking beyond 9mm, basically ever) they're being cheap based on being skinflints. Unless the intent is to buy the thing and barely ever shoot it. Which there is a segment of people that do that, sure, most of these are boomers that might want a woods gun or something, but they're never going to shoot enough 10mm to alter that market. Taurus will sell some of these things but this isn't a gun that
a shop is going to buy 10 of at a time. And in the time all the 10mms in the store shelf rot, shitloads of (insert every other common caliber here) will sell exponentially more of.
Talk about elitist mentality. I'm sure if you had your way nothing under $500 for a gun would be allowed.
There's nothing elitist about it, someone who evalutes a gun choice strictly based on the base cost of the gun is usually but not always an imbecile, and a couple hundred bucks swing on a handgun in a non mainstream caliber that will never be inexpensive is kinda meaningless/noise. We're talking handguns under $1000 here, if someone really wants something in 10mm, the price discrimination factor isn't there. "I would buy a 10mm if the handguns were cheaper" said no one, ever. The gun price has literally never been part of the lack of demand for 10mm.