Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

It was "this" which I was asking about. So, maybe a couple months then? It has been a couple months since September, which is why I asked.

Sure, and I want it all to be over too, but the truth is that nobody here has the answer you're looking for. All of us are guessing.

Based on how Bruen was worded, it's fair to say that it's impossible for the SAFE Act, as passed, to be upheld by any Federal court who's bothering to abide by Bruen.

The real question you're asking is, "How long before a Federal court with jurisdiction upholds Bruen and strikes down the SAFE Act?" That, I'm afraid, none of us can answer. But it WILL happen. If the lower courts find a way to weasel out of doing so, SCOTUS itself will weigh in. That will take longer, but in many ways that would be the best outcome for all Americans.
 
It was "this" which I was asking about. So, maybe a couple months then? It has been a couple months since September, which is why I asked.
Frustrated Headache GIF by Kelly Clarkson

The wheels of justice move slowly.

Again, normally we'd be looking at years to decades.

"Relatively quickly" would be less than that. Like a year.

Part of being adults is learning to delay gratification. We need to accept that nothing will change overnight. We need to accept that anything worth doing is going to be arduous.

This is worth doing. It's worth doing right. That means it's going to take time.

Even the big, red button of "shoot the MFers" will take time. And then you'll have to write a new Constitution (or equivalent) and get people to sign on to it. The last time we did that, it took 26 years and even then we had to replace the original document.
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Sure, and I want it all to be over too, but the truth is that nobody here has the answer you're looking for. All of us are guessing.
Thanks. It would have been a lot shorter and easier to say it wasn't resolved, nothing newer.

Thanks anyhow.
 
Thanks. It would have been a lot shorter and easier to say it wasn't resolved, nothing newer.

Thanks anyhow.

...okay.

Look, when it IS resolved? This thread will blow up. Then there will be four or five dupe threads that spring up around the same time. Until then? I have no doubt the updates will come to this thread first. Otherwise, the answer will always be "not yet; it's still working its way through the courts."
 
And where was the NRA in all of this? Wrapping presents to put under the Christmas tree for Wayne?

There were multiple lawsuits, another is in federal court in Oregon. They may be involved in that one, I’m not sure. I know the NRA is involved in mag, AWB and other cases in California. The NRA was behind the NYSRPA vs bruen case. The NRA definitely isn’t as active as FPC or the SAF but there are probably 100 or more active cases across the country right now, I’m sure the groups talk and coordinate. No point in all the groups filing the same type of lawsuit in a particular state.
 
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One of the lawyers involved in it.

Kosta Moros - "Another comment Benitez made was he was surprised,,, @ACLU didn't even bother to get involved here given the interference with so many critical rights."

It should at this point be a surprise to no one that the ACLU has no interest in civil liberties outside of those claimed by its political left donors and their deviant special interest groups.

🐯
 
The ACLU is, and has been since it's founding, a Communist front group with the goal of using the Constitution to undermine the Republic.

It should at this point be a surprise to no one that the ACLU has no interest in civil liberties outside of those claimed by its political left donors and their deviant special interest groups.

🐯
 
What the hell does this even mean?
They treat the Constitution like a suicide pact trying to leverage one part against another to blow the entire document up. Usually by twisting the original meaning of the text to do so. I.E. using the 1A in a twisted fashion to compel speech or forbid religion. The ACLU is at its heart a bunch of filthy self loathing commies trying to bring down the system and society so that they can replace it with the death cult of Marx.
 
They treat the Constitution like a suicide pact trying to leverage one part against another to blow the entire document up. Usually by twisting the original meaning of the text to do so. I.E. using the 1A in a twisted fashion to compel speech or forbid religion. The ACLU is at its heart a bunch of filthy self loathing commies trying to bring down the system and society so that they can replace it with the death cult of Marx.
Can you give examples?

I have strong feelings about their choice of cases (e.g.: they never take or support 2A cases) but I can’t think of an example where they advocate compelled speech or forbid religion.

There have been cases where they were against one group forcing its religion on another; but if you see that as oppression of the first group you don’t understand freedom of, or from, religion.

Compelled speech? I got nothing.
 
Can you give examples?

I have strong feelings about their choice of cases (e.g.: they never take or support 2A cases) but I can’t think of an example where they advocate compelled speech or forbid religion.

There have been cases where they were against one group forcing its religion on another; but if you see that as oppression of the first group you don’t understand freedom of, or from, religion.

Compelled speech? I got nothing.
Um... the most famous example? Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission

You need to learn about the history of the ACLU and understand that they were deliberately formed as a subversive group to aid the CPUSA.

If you want to support real civil liberties lawfare groups that aren't commie scumbags:
 
Um... the most famous example? Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission

You need to learn about the history of the ACLU and understand that they were deliberately formed as a subversive group to aid the CPUSA.

If you want to support real civil liberties lawfare groups that aren't commie scumbags:

IJ gets most of my yearly donations already. I haven't found a single thing they do that annoys me. Two thumbs up.

I stopped giving money to the ACLU years ago because of their neglect of the 2nd amendment.


Just so I understand what you're saying: Do you believe the ACLU's work to prevent the government from silencing groups it dosn't like is un-American and subversive?

If so, that's the most un-American, authoritarian, statist thing I can think of. The first amendment's purpose is *EXACTLY* to prevent the government from silencing people they don't like. That's literally the reason it's there.

Nazis have the right to free speech, just like you do, and I do, and the Green Party, and the libertarian party, and The New York Times, and ZeroHedge, and Occupy Democrats and Breitbart and Daily Kos and InfoWars, and even communists.

No matter what you think of the Masterpiece Cake shop decision, that's a problem with the courts, not with whichever legal advocates the sides chose. It was SCOTUS who made the decision, not the ACLU.

The ACLU may have sprung up to defend the United States Communist Party's right to speech, but that's not their only gig.
 
Just so I understand what you're saying: Do you believe the ACLU's work to prevent the government from silencing groups it dosn't like is un-American and subversive?
They were created to stop the government from fighting communists and their 'work' to protect the speech of Nazis and the like is intentional to undermine the fabric and mores of society to the point all existing rules and order collapses so that the commies can waltz in relatively unopposed to erect their society. The most dangerous misconception in human existence is that evil can be reasoned with. Communists are always either stupid pawns or Luciferian evil.
 
They were created to stop the government from fighting communists and their 'work' to protect the speech of Nazis and the like is intentional to undermine the fabric and mores of society to the point all existing rules and order collapses so that the commies can waltz in relatively unopposed to erect their society. The most dangerous misconception in human existence is that evil can be reasoned with. Communists are always either stupid pawns or Luciferian evil.

Hmm.

I disagree that it's the Constitution's job to protect the "fabric and mores of society." I also think that if those fabric and mores are so weak that they're threatened by free speech, then they're not really a deep-seated part "of society."
 
Hmm.

I disagree that it's the Constitution's job to protect the "fabric and mores of society." I also think that if those fabric and mores are so weak that they're threatened by free speech, then they're not really a deep-seated part "of society."
Franklin's remarks about the Constitution only being suitable for a virtuous people.
 
Franklin's remarks about the Constitution only being suitable for a virtuous people.

Well, yes. But there are many, many kinds of virtue, not necessarily ones you'd agree with.

I'll also point out that "Franklin's remarks" are not the foundation of our Republic. The Constitution is.
 
Well, yes. But there are many, many kinds of virtue, not necessarily ones you'd agree with.

I'll also point out that "Franklin's remarks" are not the foundation of our Republic. The Constitution is.

In the mid-1700s those destined to become our Founders were still struggling with questions on how a government could survive if non-virtuous men could be citizens, vote and hold office. Back then, working the land or plying a trade was considered the mark of a virtuous man. But many men simply labored, with no land or significant property holdings. They might be good men, but did not meet the Classical Greek/Roman standard of virtue. There remained distrust that democracy would be ruinous such men acted on baser instincts. The Constitution staked out the high ground in declaring the people as sovereign, even if it took almost two centuries to include all citizens as The People.

It’s somewhat remarkable that the US survived the 20th century, as the notions of sovereign citizenship and the virtuous man shifted. Many now equate residents with citizens, making the latter responsible for the former. Far fewer citizens own land (a home) and property of value (durable goods) now than 50 years ago and very few non-citizen residents do either - half are 1-2 paychecks away from the poorhouse. But government provides a “safety net” of dependence for almost half of the population through economic value transfers (deductions & aid), courtesy of the other half of the population and increasing government debt. Today’s serfs serve the government as master, collecting EBTs on their iPhones.

What were once rights of virtuous men has almost inverted, with rights the symbols distinguishing virtuous men from others who could care less. As long as government maintains that “safety net” as a cradle-to-grave cycle of dependence, rights are what government tells them they have.
 
We could, in theory substitute "pays taxes" for owning land or practicing a trade. Those on any form of government assistance forfeit the right to vote. If they return to being taxpayers their right to vote is restored. Heinlein proposed some form of government service such as military, peace corps, civilian construction corps, etc., to qualify.

In the mid-1700s those destined to become our Founders were still struggling with questions on how a government could survive if non-virtuous men could be citizens, vote and hold office. Back then, working the land or plying a trade was considered the mark of a virtuous man. But many men simply labored, with no land or significant property holdings. They might be good men, but did not meet the Classical Greek/Roman standard of virtue. There remained distrust that democracy would be ruinous such men acted on baser instincts. The Constitution staked out the high ground in declaring the people as sovereign, even if it took almost two centuries to include all citizens as The People.

It’s somewhat remarkable that the US survived the 20th century, as the notions of sovereign citizenship and the virtuous man shifted. Many now equate residents with citizens, making the latter responsible for the former. Far fewer citizens own land (a home) and property of value (durable goods) now than 50 years ago and very few non-citizen residents do either - half are 1-2 paychecks away from the poorhouse. But government provides a “safety net” of dependence for almost half of the population through economic value transfers (deductions & aid), courtesy of the other half of the population and increasing government debt. Today’s serfs serve the government as master, collecting EBTs on their iPhones.

What were once rights of virtuous men has almost inverted, with rights the symbols distinguishing virtuous men from others who could care less. As long as government maintains that “safety net” as a cradle-to-grave cycle of dependence, rights are what government tells them they have.
 
In the mid-1700s those destined to become our Founders were still struggling with questions on how a government could survive if non-virtuous men could be citizens, vote and hold office. Back then, working the land or plying a trade was considered the mark of a virtuous man. But many men simply labored, with no land or significant property holdings. They might be good men, but did not meet the Classical Greek/Roman standard of virtue. There remained distrust that democracy would be ruinous such men acted on baser instincts. The Constitution staked out the high ground in declaring the people as sovereign, even if it took almost two centuries to include all citizens as The People.

It’s somewhat remarkable that the US survived the 20th century, as the notions of sovereign citizenship and the virtuous man shifted. Many now equate residents with citizens, making the latter responsible for the former. Far fewer citizens own land (a home) and property of value (durable goods) now than 50 years ago and very few non-citizen residents do either - half are 1-2 paychecks away from the poorhouse. But government provides a “safety net” of dependence for almost half of the population through economic value transfers (deductions & aid), courtesy of the other half of the population and increasing government debt. Today’s serfs serve the government as master, collecting EBTs on their iPhones.

What were once rights of virtuous men has almost inverted, with rights the symbols distinguishing virtuous men from others who could care less. As long as government maintains that “safety net” as a cradle-to-grave cycle of dependence, rights are what government tells them they have.

This is why I always support the idea of a good education. You have to beat the liberals where they are not where they are not. The power brokers are not in factories or assembly plants, they're sitting in the corporate HQ counting their stock options.
 
We could, in theory substitute "pays taxes" for owning land or practicing a trade. Those on any form of government assistance forfeit the right to vote. If they return to being taxpayers their right to vote is restored. Heinlein proposed some form of government service such as military, peace corps, civilian construction corps, etc., to qualify.

Do sales tax and excise tax and property tax and gas tax and state income tax and road use tax count?


It wasn't always that way, but today in 2022 ACLU stands for American Civil Liberals Union.

What did it stand for originally?
 
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