Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

[MaverickNH]

Like 18 hrs of training. Missing 2 days of pay and paying someone for that 18 hrs of training on top of that!

What takes 18hr to teach? Aspects of gun safety and lawful use of firearms might be a half-day for a raw beginner. Nobody gets "good" at either in another day or two. You get exposed to the proper practices and information, parrot safe gun handling and pass a written test, and retain some to none of what you learned with no further practice and training.

It like driving a car - if you pass the mandated content tests, you’re good for life - and may drive well or terribly thereafter. The state‘s role is to make you an accountable driver, not a good driver. That would be the limit of a state’s role in requiring training for licensing. Somebody effs-up with a gun, it doesn’t matter whether they are practicing Constitutional Carry in a state with such an option or whether they passed a star-mandated 18hr class with flying colors - they are fully accountable for what they do with their gun.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Meh.

I‘m fine shall issue permits. We have so many more important issues — may issue permitting being taken down, “sensitive places”, reciprocity, etc.

I'm not. I used to be. I'm not now. Because this is what happens. I suspect there wasn't the votes to go no-permit at the USSC. So they settled. But "history" of 2A is NOT permitted. NOT. mASSachusetts didn't run out in 1791 and set up a gun permitting scheme.

I'd be very happy if someone kept pushing it and the Supreme's reviewed it and thought, "you know, they're never going to grant the right otherwise, so we HAVE TO make it Con-Carry."

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1YpKkgbNYVoKj

YehnowshejusttalkswithoutmovinghermoufflikePeteCeterasingszzzzz. What a terrible woman to have to listen to. I'd rather listen to Trump blather for a half hour than her for 1 minute. It's unlistenable. Did she go to the Thurston Howell, III School of Annoying Speaking?

What takes 18hr to teach? Aspects of gun safety and lawful use of firearms might be a half-day for a raw beginner. Nobody gets "good" at either in another day or two. You get exposed to the proper practices and information, parrot safe gun handling and pass a written test, and retain some to none of what you learned with no further practice and training.

It like driving a car - if you pass the mandated content tests, you’re good for life - and may drive well or terribly thereafter. The state‘s role is to make you an accountable driver, not a good driver. That would be the limit of a state’s role in requiring training for licensing. Somebody effs-up with a gun, it doesn’t matter whether they are practicing Constitutional Carry in a state with such an option or whether they passed a star-mandated 18hr class with flying colors - they are fully accountable for what they do with their gun.

TBF, back 25 years or so ago when I took my TWO FREAKING DAY course at Taunton R&P, there were some people that needed the ENTIRE HOUR to answer the 50 questions with an open book and 8-10 hours of "instruction." I was probably done in 10 min, got my live fire done and moved on. Some people were STILL TAKING THE TEST when I left. I don't know if they weren't good at tests or had a reading disability or just had no idea what a gun was. It was scary. LOL

 

[M1911]

I'm not. I used to be. I'm not now. Because this is what happens. I suspect there wasn't the votes to go no-permit at the USSC. So they settled. But "history" of 2A is NOT permitted. NOT. mASSachusetts didn't run out in 1791 and set up a gun permitting scheme.

We’ve got bigger fish to fry.

 

[pdm]

May-issue, AWBs, "approved" lists, area restrictions (aka "sensitive locations"), then permits to merely own, the permits at all, then NFA.

 

[Hoover]

I'm not. I used to be. I'm not now. Because this is what happens. I suspect there wasn't the votes to go no-permit at the USSC. So they settled. But "history" of 2A is NOT permitted. NOT. mASSachusetts didn't run out in 1791 and set up a gun permitting scheme.

I'd be very happy if someone kept pushing it and the Supreme's reviewed it and thought, "you know, they're never going to grant the right otherwise, so we HAVE TO make it Con-Carry."


YehnowshejusttalkswithoutmovinghermoufflikePeteCeterasingszzzzz. What a terrible woman to have to listen to. I'd rather listen to Trump blather for a half hour than her for 1 minute. It's unlistenable. Did she go to the Thurston Howell, III School of Annoying Speaking?



TBF, back 25 years or so ago when I took my TWO FREAKING DAY course at Taunton R&P, there were some people that needed the ENTIRE HOUR to answer the 50 questions with an open book and 8-10 hours of "instruction." I was probably done in 10 min, got my live fire done and moved on. Some people were STILL TAKING THE TEST when I left. I don't know if they weren't good at tests or had a reading disability or just had no idea what a gun was. It was scary. LOL

Next steps should be AWB, mag limits, sensitive spaces, lifetime ban for non violent criminal convictions, approved rosters

The excess fees, excess training etc will probably be gone at the circuit court level. NY, NJ, CA are going full retard and they’ll lose.

 

[FunYun]

We’ve got bigger fish to fry.

Its the only fish worth frying.

As soon as the state has no position between you and a weapon, all other laws become difficult to impossible to enforce.

The Second Amendment’s plain text thus presumptively
guarantees petitioners Koch and Nash a right to “bear”
arms in public for self-defense.

It clearly does not say I have a right to licenses.

 

[SFC13557]

Your suggestions are not how courts work nor will in these possible situations. The cases will be in federal court also and even judges as liberal as sotomayor won’t protect the govt officials as you suggest

I guess I didn't make myself clear, these States, NY, CA, NJ, etc. have declared SCOTUS decisions on guns, abortion, etc. illegitimate and refuse to obey them. They don't believe in The Constitution and Bill of Right's as written because they were written by a bunch of Rich, White slaveholders. They are daring the Feds to come after them and they won't respect Judicial rulings whether from Circuit Courts or the Supreme Court. Will the Federal Govt. go to WAR with these leftist States to enforce rulings? We know Joey Cones will bow to them but will a R Admin risk starting a Civil War over Leftist States thumbing their noses at Federal rulings, laws they don't agree with. The Posters here seem to believe eventually these States will comply under pressure, I believe they won't comply unless they are thrown in jail and even then they will unleash their shock troops to riot, burn and destroy our cities. The FBI/DOJ conspired in a Coup against the democratically elected President of the United States so what would happen if a R Admin ordered them to enforce a ruling against the Governor of NY on GUNZ?

 

[Hoover]

I guess I didn't make myself clear, these States, NY, CA, NJ, etc. have declared SCOTUS decisions on guns, abortion, etc. illegitimate and refuse to obey them. They don't believe in The Constitution and Bill of Right's as written because they were written by a bunch of Rich, White slaveholders. They are daring the Feds to come after them and they won't respect Judicial rulings whether from Circuit Courts or the Supreme Court. Will the Federal Govt. go to WAR with these leftist States to enforce rulings? We know Joey Cones will bow to them but will a R Admin risk starting a Civil War over Leftist States thumbing their noses at Federal rulings, laws they don't agree with. The Posters here seem to believe eventually these States will comply under pressure, I believe they won't comply unless they are thrown in jail and even then they will unleash their shock troops to riot, burn and destroy our cities. The FBI/DOJ conspired in a Coup against the democratically elected President of the United States so what would happen if a R Admin ordered them to enforce a ruling against the Governor of NY on GUNZ?

What is clear is you do not understand how courts work and the way they can enforce rulings.

Google Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis.

 

[M1911]

I guess I didn't make myself clear, these States, NY, CA, NJ, etc. have declared SCOTUS decisions on guns, abortion, etc. illegitimate and refuse to obey them. They don't believe in The Constitution and Bill of Right's as written because they were written by a bunch of Rich, White slaveholders. They are daring the Feds to come after them and they won't respect Judicial rulings whether from Circuit Courts or the Supreme Court. Will the Federal Govt. go to WAR with these leftist States to enforce rulings? We know Joey Cones will bow to them but will a R Admin risk starting a Civil War over Leftist States thumbing their noses at Federal rulings, laws they don't agree with. The Posters here seem to believe eventually these States will comply under pressure, I believe they won't comply unless they are thrown in jail and even then they will unleash their shock troops to riot, burn and destroy our cities. The FBI/DOJ conspired in a Coup against the democratically elected President of the United States so what would happen if a R Admin ordered them to enforce a ruling against the Governor of NY on GUNZ?

The SCOTUS rulings will be enforced and there will be no civil war. You are living in a delusional fantasy world.

 

[Garys]

It doesn't really matter how long it actually takes to teach the course. It matters how long the legislature says the course has to be.

When Texas first approved permits for concealed carry, they mandated a 16 hour course which included a range qualification. Over time that has been progressively reduced to 4-6 hours. Of course it's somewhat moot as they now have Constitutional Carry.

South Carolina requires a course covering the following,

• Must included information on the statutory and case law of South Carolina relating to handguns and to the use of deadly force
• Must include information on handgun use and safety
• Must include information on the proper storage practice for handguns with an emphasis on storage practices that reduces the possibility of accidental injury to a child
• Must involve the actual firing of the handgun in the presence of the instructor

There is a written exam at the end of the class and a range qualification required.

What takes 18hr to teach? Aspects of gun safety and lawful use of firearms might be a half-day for a raw beginner. Nobody gets "good" at either in another day or two. You get exposed to the proper practices and information, parrot safe gun handling and pass a written test, and retain some to none of what you learned with no further practice and training.

It like driving a car - if you pass the mandated content tests, you’re good for life - and may drive well or terribly thereafter. The state‘s role is to make you an accountable driver, not a good driver. That would be the limit of a state’s role in requiring training for licensing. Somebody effs-up with a gun, it doesn’t matter whether they are practicing Constitutional Carry in a state with such an option or whether they passed a star-mandated 18hr class with flying colors - they are fully accountable for what they do with their gun.

 

[MaverickNH]

SCOTUS Gun Watch – Week of 10/24/22

firearmslaw.duke.edu

" Howling v. Maryland. In Howling, the petitioner was convicted of a state-level offense of possessing a gun after a disqualifying conviction for a crime of violence (simple assault) 17 years prior. Howling challenges, in part, the fact that Maryland’s pattern jury instructions for the gun possession offense lack any mens rea requirement. While there is no direct Second Amendment challenge, the petition for certiorari contends that “Petitioner Howling’s case, at least as a matter of public interest and public policy, has increased ‘Certworthiness’ in light of this Court’s recent Bruen decision,” and suggests that Bruen indicates the Court should view with suspicion state laws that criminalize gun possession without requiring a determination of mens rea of prohibited status."

I read this as suggesting Bruen might be seen to expect an intention of wrongdoing in possession by a prohibited person. There are plenty of reasons why some PPs might possess a gun, including self-defense. That said, short of catching a PP in possession of a gun in the midst of wrongdoing, any PP could claim possession for self defense. I don't see where this could be going, unless the whole PP status thing goes away, which is doubtful.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I think some of you missed reading the actual Bruen decision and forgot to see what cases the Supremes shipped back to lower court for review. AWB/Mag will fall in light of Bruen. It's a foregone conclusion. The SC doesn't remand for review if they think you got the decision right.

Sensitive spaces WAS ALREADY COVERED. At some point, you're going to hit a judicial wall of "yeah, STFU - you can't enforce that." It's also a foregone conclusion.

Next is licensure.

I'm sure all of you mASSwholes have forgotten how they changed our lic from 6 year to 3 this summer. Three. They can't handle the # of licenses every SIX years, let alone double the capacity.

 

[scottco]

I think some of you missed reading the actual Bruen decision and forgot to see what cases the Supremes shipped back to lower court for review. AWB/Mag will fall in light of Bruen. It's a foregone conclusion. The SC doesn't remand for review if they think you got the decision right.

Sensitive spaces WAS ALREADY COVERED. At some point, you're going to hit a judicial wall of "yeah, STFU - you can't enforce that." It's also a foregone conclusion.

Next is licensure.

I'm sure all of you mASSwholes have forgotten how they changed our lic from 6 year to 3 this summer. Three. They can't handle the # of licenses every SIX years, let alone double the capacity.

I thought that didn’t make it …stayed the same?

 

[bfm]

I'm sure all of you mASSwholes have forgotten how they changed our lic from 6 year to 3 this summer. Three. They can't handle the # of licenses every SIX years, let alone double the capacity.

Didn't forget it, but I missed the memo somehow. That sucks. When they extended it to 6 years it was a lot easier to deal with.

 

[Garys]

That was deleted from the bill after the police chiefs inundated the legislators with complaints about the very thing that you mentioned. Plus, I think it changed to the chief or his representative, but I'm not completely sure.

I'm not sure what a "mASSwhole" is, but I'm sure you can 'splain it to us.

NOTHING is foregone when it comes to courts and appeals.

I think some of you missed reading the actual Bruen decision and forgot to see what cases the Supremes shipped back to lower court for review. AWB/Mag will fall in light of Bruen. It's a foregone conclusion. The SC doesn't remand for review if they think you got the decision right.

Sensitive spaces WAS ALREADY COVERED. At some point, you're going to hit a judicial wall of "yeah, STFU - you can't enforce that." It's also a foregone conclusion.

Next is licensure.

I'm sure all of you mASSwholes have forgotten how they changed our lic from 6 year to 3 this summer. Three. They can't handle the # of licenses every SIX years, let alone double the capacity.

 

[Hoover]

The SCOTUS rulings will be enforced and there will be no civil war. You are living in a delusional fantasy world.

This stuff is like 2016 when a few were saying Obama wouldn’t leave the WH, he’d declare martial law, etc.

The only federal circuit court of appeals overwhelmingly filled with democrat nominated judges is the 1st circuit and 4th the rest are nearly 50/50 or like the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th stacked with conservatives. And SCOTUS was a 6-3 strong ru,ing in NYSRPA vs bruen

 

[SFC13557]

The SCOTUS rulings will be enforced and there will be no civil war. You are living in a delusional fantasy world.

By whom?
You don't seem to understand our enemies and I'm not talking about Pols like Newsom, Hochul, Chuck and Nancy. Their violent Leftist foot soldiers already demonstrated their power and ideology with the Summer of Love in our cities in 2020. The Country changed the minute after Trump was elected President, that's when the Leftists and the swamp declared war on the Country. Not my delusional fantasy, their words not mine.

 

[SFC13557]

This stuff is like 2016 when a few were saying Obama wouldn’t leave the WH, he’d declare martial law, etc.

The only federal circuit court of appeals overwhelmingly filled with democrat nominated judges is the 1st circuit and 4th the rest are nearly 50/50 or like the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th stacked with conservatives. And SCOTUS was a 6-3 strong ru,ing in NYSRPA vs bruen

Negative, Obama and the Dem Pols are swamp creatures who will protect their jobs at all costs.

 

[Dadstoys]

I guess I didn't make myself clear, these States, NY, CA, NJ, etc. have declared SCOTUS decisions on guns, abortion, etc. illegitimate and refuse to obey them. They don't believe in The Constitution and Bill of Right's as written because they were written by a bunch of Rich, White slaveholders. They are daring the Feds to come after them and they won't respect Judicial rulings whether from Circuit Courts or the Supreme Court. Will the Federal Govt. go to WAR with these leftist States to enforce rulings? We know Joey Cones will bow to them but will a R Admin risk starting a Civil War over Leftist States thumbing their noses at Federal rulings, laws they don't agree with. The Posters here seem to believe eventually these States will comply under pressure, I believe they won't comply unless they are thrown in jail and even then they will unleash their shock troops to riot, burn and destroy our cities. The FBI/DOJ conspired in a Coup against the democratically elected President of the United States so what would happen if a R Admin ordered them to enforce a ruling against the Governor of NY on GUNZ?

Look at down south when blacks were denied civil rights.
Some of those folks down there were sure that no court would ever force them to allow blacks to..
Go to white schools
Vote
Eat at lunch counter next to them.
Drink out of the same water fountain.
Sit in the front of the bus.
And God forbid EVER marry a white girl.
Wrong on all counts.

Our modern day civil rights deniers I'm sure are as confident as those were back then.

 

[Picton]

Their violent Leftist foot soldiers already demonstrated their power and ideology with the Summer of Love in our cities in 2020.

I couldn't possibly care less about their "violent Leftist foot soldiers" until they come onto my property or threaten my family.

Nothing that happened that summer would outweigh a SCOTUS decision. I think you're talking about governors declaring martial law and suspending habeas corpus, which would take a riot the likes of which I've never seen. And I was in LA in '92, which made the riots of a couple summers ago look like a picnic.

Face it. If nobody declared martial law over CHAZ/CHOP in Portland that summer, they never will.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Next steps should be AWB, mag limits, sensitive spaces, lifetime ban for non violent criminal convictions, approved rosters

Due process should also be an attack surface.

If the 2A is to be a "right of the first class", it must be subject to the constraints that exist on constraints of other rights. What other rights are there that can be taken away because you were found not guilty of an offense, but the person taking the right away can successfully argue in court that "evidence of guilt still exists"?

Perhaps allowing a RMV to suspend the driving license of someone who was accused of OUI, but found not guilty, would be a good start to licensing drivers and cars like guns.

 

[Hoover]

Negative, Obama and the Dem Pols are swamp creatures who will protect their jobs at all costs.

Do you buy tinfoil by the case or pallet?

 

[Mesatchornug]

Do you buy tinfoil by the case or pallet?

Bruh.

I'm ded.

 

[Bonesinium]

So SFC13557 says corrupt government will continue to ignore the constitution as they have always done and he’s the conspiracy theorist who’s delusional and not the people saying somehow this is the court ruling that will bring the lawlessness to an end?

 

[Hoover]

So SFC13557 says corrupt government will continue to ignore the constitution as they have always done and he’s the conspiracy theorist who’s delusional and not the people saying somehow this is the court ruling that will bring the lawlessness to an end?

Google Kim Davis Kentucky clerk, the courts and individual lawsuits will force compliance. When you ignore civil rights after a court case you open yourself up to personal liability. No cop or govt official is going to open themselves up like that.

Also, as more and more people have a chance to own and carry in NY, NJ, CA, etc, I think you’ll see a lot more push back from residents in those states. The left has lost the 2A war, they just don’t grasp it yet. These moves now are desperate and failing attempts.

 

[Bonesinium]

When you ignore civil rights after a court case you open yourself up to personal liability. No cop or govt official is going to open themselves up like that.

Lol. If you think that’s true you are the delusional one! That’s just hilarious!

 

[Hoover]

Lol. If you think that’s true you are the delusional one! That’s just hilarious!

See how it’s working out for Kim Davis. She’s going to be personally liable. Anyone arrested can file suit, qualified immunity won’t save them.

 

[Bonesinium]

See how it’s working out for Kim Davis. She’s going to be personally liable. Anyone arrested can file suit, qualified immunity won’t save them.

Three things.

One, that’s an example of someone doing what you said they wouldn’t.

Two, one example of one person being denied qualified immunity in one circuit over one specific issue neither provides general sweeping legal precedent for all types of rights violations nor precedent for anyone outside that one jurisdiction.

Three, it certainly doesn’t somehow mean all government actors are so deterred they’d now never think about violating someone’s rights. In fact that’s plainly untrue and easily proven, and I’ve posted literally hundreds of examples.

 

[Hoover]

Three things.

One, that’s an example of someone doing what you said they wouldn’t.

Two, one example of one person being denied qualified immunity in one circuit over one specific issue neither provides general sweeping legal precedent for all types of rights violations nor precedent for anyone outside that one jurisdiction.

Three, it certainly doesn’t somehow mean all government actors are so deterred they’d now never think about violating someone’s rights. In fact that’s plainly untrue and easily proven, and I’ve posted literally hundreds of examples.

Yeah, only one person refused to follow SCOTUS, Davis. The rest of the country followed SCOTUS.

There are maybe 5 or 6 states who are trying to ignore SCOTUS. Maryland may join them with the loon governor they’ll elect but hogan has been fine post NYSRPA. Thomas and the other 5 are not going to allow states to ignore a ruling. The court is 6-3, Ginsburg and wishy washy justices like Kennedy are no more. And lower courts of appeals are no going to be friendly to those governments

 

[Picton]

Yeah, only one person refused to follow SCOTUS, Davis. The rest of the country followed SCOTUS.

There are maybe 5 or 6 states who are trying to ignore SCOTUS. Maryland may join them with the loon governor they’ll elect but hogan has been fine post NYSRPA. Thomas and the other 5 are not going to allow states to ignore a ruling. The court is 6-3, Ginsburg and wishy washy justices like Kennedy are no more. And lower courts of appeals are no going to be friendly to those governments

This.

We're in a new era. Bruen changed everything.