Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

Picton said:
This.

We're in a new era. Bruen changed everything.
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We hope so. I think so many of us are so used to the court decisions not meaning anything when it comes to the Pols following those rulings that we are having a hard time believing they will after Bruen. I hope you guys are right in how this will play out. It will be a welcome change if you are.
 
cstockwell said:
We hope so. I think so many of us are so used to the court decisions not meaning anything when it comes to the Pols following those rulings that we are having a hard time believing they will after Bruen. I hope you guys are right in how this will play out. It will be a welcome change if you are.
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Me too. I obviously don't know the future.

This ruling was FAR more comprehensive than I think most RKBA activists imagined it would be. Thomas swung for the fences and got it over onto Landsdowne St.

With that said, it's not a panacea. It'll still take many court cases to work out all the kinks. But the Bruen framework guarantees that restrictive states will eventually become MUCH less restrictive.
 
Picton said:
This.

We're in a new era. Bruen changed everything.
Click to expand...

Once Ginsburg died, that was the break in the levee. There is a 6 judge block and that gives them the ability to write good opinions, not the watered down ones when they needed to hold Kennedy in the 5-4 majority.

Look at what SCOTUS did with Dobbs, they reversed the precious roe abomination. They’ll finally end affirmative action in college admissions this term. They’re not timid, they have the votes and they’re going to protect their decisions.
 
cstockwell said:
We hope so. I think so many of us are so used to the court decisions not meaning anything when it comes to the Pols following those rulings that we are having a hard time believing they will after Bruen. I hope you guys are right in how this will play out. It will be a welcome change if you are.
Click to expand...

McConnell has made it his main mission to remake the courts. They stacked a lot of really good judges on the circuit courts and of course the 3 SCOTUS picks. SCOTUS was always 3 or 4 conservatives and Sandra day O’Connor and/ or Kennedy. There isn’t a swing justice like Kennedy looking for a mediation between sides now. Heller and McDonald would have been much stronger but they needed to hold Kennedy to be the 5th. Kavanaugh replaced Kennedy, he was in the dissent in an AWB case from DC. And Barrett is on the opposite side from Ginsburg.

The current court and lower courts are not remotely like the past ones, it’s so very different because of those things.
 
Even if they have to drag the Chief along with them.

Hoover said:
Once Ginsburg died, that was the break in the levee. There is a 6 judge block and that gives them the ability to write good opinions, not the watered down ones when they needed to hold Kennedy in the 5-4 majority.

Look at what SCOTUS did with Dobbs, they reversed the precious roe abomination. They’ll finally end affirmative action in college admissions this term. They’re not timid, they have the votes and they’re going to protect their decisions.
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MaverickNH said:
What takes 18hr to teach? Aspects of gun safety and lawful use of firearms might be a half-day for a raw beginner. Nobody gets "good" at either in another day or two. You get exposed to the proper practices and information, parrot safe gun handling and pass a written test, and retain some to none of what you learned with no further practice and training.

It like driving a car - if you pass the mandated content tests, you’re good for life - and may drive well or terribly thereafter. The state‘s role is to make you an accountable driver, not a good driver. That would be the limit of a state’s role in requiring training for licensing. Somebody effs-up with a gun, it doesn’t matter whether they are practicing Constitutional Carry in a state with such an option or whether they passed a star-mandated 18hr class with flying colors - they are fully accountable for what they do with their gun.
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I'm reminded of some recent "protecting and serving" videos, where an officer barks at a driver that they should have known the law because they passed a test to get a DL, when the law in question is something only passed recently.

I haven't been tested on traffic laws since 1977, but I will be renewed for however long I can pass the vision test and pay the fee.

This is a great argument against licensing, whether it's guns or cars: just hold people responsible for their personal actions.
 
Garys said:
That was deleted from the bill after the police chiefs inundated the legislators with complaints about the very thing that you mentioned. Plus, I think it changed to the chief or his representative, but I'm not completely sure.

I'm not sure what a "mASSwhole" is, but I'm sure you can 'splain it to us.

NOTHING is foregone when it comes to courts and appeals.
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I did not read that. LOL. Looks like I need some of my own medicine. ;)

And you're a mASSwhole. I'm a mASSwhole. We live in this stupid state despite evidence to the contrary b/c we love the state. Just not many of hte people. ROFL!!!!
 
Hoover said:
McConnell has made it his main mission to remake the courts. They stacked a lot of really good judges on the circuit courts and of course the 3 SCOTUS picks. SCOTUS was always 3 or 4 conservatives and Sandra day O’Connor and/ or Kennedy. There isn’t a swing justice like Kennedy looking for a mediation between sides now. Heller and McDonald would have been much stronger but they needed to hold Kennedy to be the 5th. Kavanaugh replaced Kennedy, he was in the dissent in an AWB case from DC. And Barrett is on the opposite side from Ginsburg.

The current court and lower courts are not remotely like the past ones, it’s so very different because of those things.
Click to expand...

I believe that by the time that the last Congress ended, McConnell only had 4 judge positions left open on the federal bench to fill. So Biden had basically nothing except back filling for left wing judges that wanted to retire.
 
Picton said:
With that said, it's not a panacea. It'll still take many court cases to work out all the kinks. But the Bruen framework guarantees that restrictive states will eventually become MUCH less restrictive.
Click to expand...
Or that states where carry permits were somewhat available will have additional no-go zones. The concept is not new - when Michigan went from may to shall issue it added a few places off limits to permit holders.
 
I can't disagree with you on that. I was thinking about how much I loved the MA that I grew up in and miss it. The problem is that the MA I grew up in and loved is not really hear any longer. Plus, my kids and grand kids are in the south and it's a PITA to get anywhere from the NE corner of the country. Two days to drive to SC, four days to drive to TX. Not that that is how we normally travel, but we have done it a few times.

I expect that if Maura wins, it will just get worse. Ironically, it will likely be the legislature that restrains here. The Speaker and Senate President like to remind whoever the Governor is WHO really controls what goes on in the state.

Dennis in MA said:
I did not read that. LOL. Looks like I need some of my own medicine. ;)

And you're a mASSwhole. I'm a mASSwhole. We live in this stupid state despite evidence to the contrary b/c we love the state. Just not many of hte people. ROFL!!!!
Click to expand...
 
VetteGirlMA said:
I believe that by the time that the last Congress ended, McConnell only had 4 judge positions left open on the federal bench to fill. So Biden had basically nothing except back filling for left wing judges that wanted to retire.
Click to expand...

Yep. It’s VERY easy to see whom the partisan hack judges were, suddenly in February 2021 many liberal judges suddenly wanted to retire. They had a lefty POTUS and senate. Hack like fletcher, berzon, graber from the 9th circuit all took senior status.

I think there were onlyn2 or 3 circuit court openings when trump left, a few judges sided late in 2020. One on the 1st, 2nd and 7th. The guy on the 1st was based in Puerto Rico and serving on the 1st circuit court of appeals. He was 93 or so and hadn’t even taken senior status, that’s ridiculous. The one on the 2nd got cancer and died. The one on the 7th wanted to retire a few years ago but insisted on a certain former clerk replacing him. Trump refused to let the guy pick his replacement, correct by trump, so the guy reminded his retirement, stayed and died after trump couldn’t replace him.
 
"Do you buy tinfoil by the case or pallet?""

The Civil War has begun, the leftists have empowered their foot soldiers to commit violence on their behalf without consequences. Picton wrote he doesn't care until they show up in his front yard. By then it's too late my friend.

How many PD Department's in Ma. have faced repercussions for denying, hassling LTC applicants? Boston, Brookline, Medford? Yes, some have been sued and how did that work out for the plaintiff's? The Brookline COP was recently fired for sexual harassment, NOT for denying citizens their 2A rights.

"See how it’s working out for Kim Davis. She’s going to be personally liable. Anyone arrested can file suit, qualified immunity won’t save them."

Gay marriage and she was a low level county clerk who acted on her own, apples and oranges.

I guess the issue is many posters still expect State's to respect/obey Court decisions they publicly reject. You guys think we still live in the United States, I don't. We are a fractured country that is dividing into political factions, the tipping point was the election of Donald Trump. After the Red wave in 2 weeks the Leftists will be doubling down on intimidation and threats and for the next 2 years, leading up to the 2024 elections, the country will be a verbal and physical battleground. I don't believe NY, CA, NJ, etc. will cave to Court decisions ruling against their attacks on Bruen, it would signal weakness to their fanatical followers.

So Supreme Court Judge Hoover, when do you expect the next NY Governor to instruct Mayor Adams to start issuing unrestricted NYC LTC licenses?
2023, 24, 25. 2030?
 
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SFC13557 said:
"Do you buy tinfoil by the case or pallet?""

The Civil War has begun, the leftists have empowered their foot soldiers to commit violence on their behalf without consequences. Picton wrote he doesn't care until they show up in his front yard. By then it's too late my friend.

How many PD Department's in Ma. have faced repercussions for denying, hassling LTC applicants? Boston, Brookline, Medford? Yes, some have been sued and how did that work out for the plaintiff's?

"See how it’s working out for Kim Davis. She’s going to be personally liable. Anyone arrested can file suit, qualified immunity won’t save them."

Gay marriage and she was a low level county clerk who acted on her own, apples and oranges.

I guess the issue is many posters still expect State's to respect/obey Court decisions they publicly reject. You guys think we still live in the United States, I don't. We are a fractured country that is dividing into political factions, the tipping point was the election of Donald Trump.

So Supreme Court Judge Hoover, when do you expect the next NY Governor to instruct Mayor Adams to start issuing unrestricted NYC LTC licenses?
2023, 24, 25. 2030?
Click to expand...

After personally seeing the cluster-mistake that was covid in 2020 in a gun shop, first hand viewing no less, I'm just about at the point where I would tell someone if things get really bad and violence erupts, arm yourself any way you can and keep yourself safe. Fuc* all the bullsh*t when the world starts slipping sideways. That will be the day that constitutional open carry will be the law of the land whether dems want it or not. I'm sure plenty of decent dems would carry as well for the sake of their families. The cops will be useless if society breaks out into violence. They will be hopelessly outnumbered. I hope and pray that this never happens, ever, but we have a president with the brain of potato and will say all kinds of insane nonsense for what? Who knows.
 
"The cops will be useless if society breaks out into violence. They will be hopelessly outnumbered. I hope and pray that this never happens, ever, but we have a president with the brain of potato and will say all kinds of insane nonsense for what? Who knows."

As I've stated the FBI/DOJ/DC Govt. are infected with Dem/Liberal swamp rats who participated in an undercover coup against President Donald Trump because he threatened their existence. Do we really expect them to enforce a Supreme Court ruling that the Leftists/Swamp/DC, NYC, CA Leftists vehemently oppose? THEY run the Country as of now, not the people.
Remember the Biden Admin refused to condemn the "protests" at Supreme Court Justices houses and the harassment of Conservative Pols in public places. This is called intimidation of your opponents and sending a message. The Biden Admin is anti-2A and will do all they can to support States that obstruct enforcement of the Bruen decision.
 
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Violence??? What are the liberals going to do? Speed-slap us to death???? As we saw in PortVille during the BLM sit-in, the Kumbaya Patrol can get it's asses kicked by a few gangbangers awful fast.
 
Dennis in MA said:
Violence??? What are the liberals going to do? Speed-slap us to death???? As we saw in PortVille during the BLM sit-in, the Kumbaya Patrol can get it's asses kicked by a few gangbangers awful fast.
Click to expand...
So Antifa and the Anarchists are unarmed? Who was throwing Molotov cocktails at Cops, Police Stations? Who was burning down city centers? Recently Antifa has been showing up at "White Supremacist" rallies armed. Remember Andy Ngo? He was violently assaulted in Portland by Antifa thugs and NO ONE was arrested/prosecuted even thou it all was on tape. They don't need AR's to accomplish their mission, they have numbers and are not stupid.
Also there's no way in hell Antifa exists without inside help. Have any of them been arrested? Has the FBI infiltrated their ranks like they do/did with the Oath Keepers? Proud Boys? Mafia? Black Panther's? Has the Govt. even attempted to stop them from rioting and committing violence against their fellow Americans? Negative!
 
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SFC13557 said:
"Do you buy tinfoil by the case or pallet?""

The Civil War has begun, the leftists have empowered their foot soldiers to commit violence on their behalf without consequences. Picton wrote he doesn't care until they show up in his front yard. By then it's too late my friend.

How many PD Department's in Ma. have faced repercussions for denying, hassling LTC applicants? Boston, Brookline, Medford? Yes, some have been sued and how did that work out for the plaintiff's? The Brookline COP was recently fired for sexual harassment, NOT for denying citizens their 2A rights.

"See how it’s working out for Kim Davis. She’s going to be personally liable. Anyone arrested can file suit, qualified immunity won’t save them."

Gay marriage and she was a low level county clerk who acted on her own, apples and oranges.

I guess the issue is many posters still expect State's to respect/obey Court decisions they publicly reject. You guys think we still live in the United States, I don't. We are a fractured country that is dividing into political factions, the tipping point was the election of Donald Trump. After the Red wave in 2 weeks the Leftists will be doubling down on intimidation and threats and for the next 2 years, leading up to the 2024 elections, the country will be a verbal and physical battleground. I don't believe NY, CA, NJ, etc. will cave to Court decisions ruling against their attacks on Bruen, it would signal weakness to their fanatical followers.

So Supreme Court Judge Hoover, when do you expect the next NY Governor to instruct Mayor Adams to start issuing unrestricted NYC LTC licenses?
2023, 24, 25. 2030?
Click to expand...

Lighten up Francis.

The Boston, Brookline, Medford etc are not post NYSRPA, those places are issuing licenses. There are no restricted licenses in Massachusetts now, post NYSRPA.

Houchul has no power over adams, they are dally elected officials. There are 5 or 6 lawsuits against NY right now and the judges are issuing TROs against most of what Ny passed. A lot of these NY, NJ, AWB, mag limits, etc will be struck down and dead within the next year or two (including time for the appeal in the circuit courts)

Heck, biden and Obama nominated judges in Colorado put TROs on local AWBs. A Clinton judge in WV struck down laws against defaced serial numbers. A Texas federal judge struck down the ban on 18-20 year olds owning handguns.


You’re living in a pre NYSRPA vs bruen world, come into the present and future. Post NYSRPa is a completely different environment in the courts. Don’t trust me, listen to the gun control legal people and how panicked they are. They’re shocked at the dozen or so court fights and how the anti side is losing them all.
 
Hoover said:
The courts will strike that law down, let them pass it and lose in court.
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I thought you said they wouldn’t even think about doing something that would violate rights? Now you are saying they will but a court will strike it down? I thought the court already did? So what you are saying is that despite the ruling, it will be circumvented or ignored and you’ll need another court ruling, which will then be circumvented or ignored and require another ruling, which will…

You guys keep proving your own positions wrong.

“We’re post Bruen, things are different! See this example of how things are exactly the same!”
 
xtry51 said:
The correct question for her to ask in that situation is, "If you support $2 fees for 2A, do you support me passing a law that charges $2 for you to register to vote?"
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Concur
But I would ask it of both registering and voting - it may only take $50 to register but the cost to print, secure, count and retain ballots is very high and not everyone chooses to vote so it also should have an associated fee.
Taking it that train of thought to the conclusion, a person should be required to pass a knowledge test on each ballot question and candidate so we know they are knowledgeable enough to make an informed decision.
 
xtry51 said:
The correct question for her to ask in that situation is, "If you support $2 fees for 2A, do you support me passing a law that charges $2 for you to register to vote?"
Click to expand...
Plenty of states already have defacto charges to vote. That charge being the cost of the needed ID.

I think voter ID is probably a good thing. However, I also think that if we require it we should provide free state ID's (not DLs). Would solve all sorts of problems.

But since (R)'s are cheap as f*** except when Trump hands out Trumpbucks and (D)'s are running one hell of a scam neither party wants free ID access.
 
Bonesinium said:
I thought you said they wouldn’t even think about doing something that would violate rights? Now you are saying they will but a court will strike it down? I thought the court already did? So what you are saying is that despite the ruling, it will be circumvented or ignored and you’ll need another court ruling, which will then be circumvented or ignored and require another ruling, which will…

You guys keep proving your own positions wrong.

“We’re post Bruen, things are different! See this example of how things are exactly the same!”
Click to expand...

You don’t follow well.

SCOTUS indicated some objective requirements would be constitutional in the post NYSRPA shall issue licensing. The restrictions NY enacted have not been ruled on in court. Once they are struck down by courts, then states will not try to enforce such restrictions and if they do, they’ll face 1983 suits.

As I said, once these cases are resolved in court, the states would not enforce them or they’d do it at their own peril just like the marriage situation with Kim Davis
 
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