Sudbury townwide ban on agenda

[40 Creedmoor fan]

It’s worth watching the video. The anti’s came out and stated we ultimately want to change the 2nd Amendment to only allow the military to possess firearms.
Although appalling, the clarity was amazing to hear out loud.

Do you mean the Guns-n-Gadgets video, or was there another one?

 

[rogersmithiii]

Moms, Everytown and the rest are well organized, well funded, and very tenacious.

They are not a trivial opponent, and are relentless in attacking guns from every angle possible.

Here's my question.

In every situation, you have 10% on either side that have made up their minds, and will not change their positions for any reason. That leaves 40% on each side who can be persuaded.

The problem is that the media, tech, and the rest have isolated each side, preventing messages from reaching them that don't line up with what the tech personal data machine has decided you are. Take Google for instance. If a progressive and a Republican search "quiche", both people with get different search results that Google has curated to fit what it thinks they want to see.

The question is how to reach the opposing 40%? The mainstream media on either side won't present fair and balanced coverage. The tech media like Facebook, Instagram, Google, Twitter and the rest filter, shadowban and manipulate.

How do you reach the other side with calm, rational information?

 

[HARRYM]

Moms, Everytown and the rest are well organized, well funded, and very tenacious.

They are not a trivial opponent, and are relentless in attacking guns from every angle possible.

Here's my question.

In every situation, you have 10% on either side that have made up their minds, and will not change their positions for any reason. That leaves 40% on each side who can be persuaded.

The problem is that the media, tech, and the rest have isolated each side, preventing messages from reaching them that don't line up with what the tech personal data machine has decided you are. Take Google for instance. If a progressive and a Republican search "quiche", both people with get different search results that Google has curated to fit what it thinks they want to see.

The question is how to reach the opposing 40%? The mainstream media on either side won't present fair and balanced coverage. The tech media like Facebook, Instagram, Google, Twitter and the rest filter, shadowban and manipulate.

How do you reach the other side with calm, rational information?

I would respectfully disagree with your numbers. I believe it's 40% on either side that have made up their minds with the battle over who sways the remaining 20%. The margin of error is very tight and getting tighter. The whole country is pretty much the same.

Good for Sudbury and to those who showed up and pushed back.

 

[rogersmithiii]

They don't want to live with the illegals, they want us to live with them.

The progressive wet dream is government, or corporations in bed with the government owning housing that is dense and urban. They get to choose your neighbors, and what kind of house you live in. No more escaping to the countryside or the burbs to get away from crime, graffiti, litter, and noise. They plan to bring all of that to the burbs to make all of us equally share in the misery.

There won't be any small business or self-employment. Everyone will work for the man. If you upset the corporate overseers, you'll lose your house, your kids will be taken away from you, and you will be destroyed.

The monetary system will be completely digital, giving them complete control over how you spend your money. No one will own cars. Everything will be public transit, and they will control where and when you can travel using that digital monetary system. Healthcare will be provided by the government, and the progressives will decide what healthcare you get, and how much.

No guns, no weapons, and only white males will be prosecuted for crimes to allow minority groups to take over. Self defense will be illegal. Tech will eliminate privacy, and everything will be watched by big brother.

They will control what you eat, what you read, watch or listen to, and everything else connected to your existence on this planet.

You may think I'm crazy, but I've read history, and I watch what's going on in the US today. I see striking similarities to what happened in Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela, Cambodia, and the rest when communists took over those countries. And most Americans seem to be oblvious.

 

[rogersmithiii]

I would respectfully disagree with your numbers. I believe it's 40% on either side that have made up their minds with the battle over who sways the remaining 20%. The margin of error is very tight and getting tighter. The whole country is pretty much the same.

Good for Sudbury and to those who showed up and pushed back.

Fine.

The question still stands. How do you reach those who can be reached? How do we stop the brainwashing of kids in the schools, and online media? IMHO, the kids are the real problem here. Easily impressionable young people are the ones who have fomented socialist / communist revolutions in every single place where that evil is taken hold.

And I'm sorry, but Republicans have been completely asleep at the switch on all of this.

 

[rogersmithiii]

The real attack will be when same ordinances will force you to share your own house with some undocumented migrants, because you’ve got too much square footage per person than government allows you to have.
The only freedom left in USA is a freedom to remain silent. Everything else will be exposed and punished mercilessly.

They are not demanding shared housing yet, but Maura and Andrea are hell bent on having you share your town and neighborhood, and they are starting their push with every MBTA town, and any towns adjacent.

 

[HARRYM]

Fine.

The question still stands. How do you reach those who can be reached? How do we stop the brainwashing of kids in the schools, and online media? IMHO, the kids are the real problem here. Easily impressionable young people are the ones who have fomented socialist / communist revolutions in every single place where that evil is taken hold.

And I'm sorry, but Republicans have been completely asleep at the switch on all of this.

Before retirement I worked with a Liberal Twit who would straight up tell me that the Left was just waiting for us old guard folks to die off. We will win in the end he would say.

There is no Republican Party BTW so don't hold your breath waiting for them to show up.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Before retirement I worked with a Liberal Twit who would straight up tell me that the Left was just waiting for us old guard folks to die off. We will win in the end he would say.

There is no Republican Party BTW so don't hold your breath waiting for them to show up.

That's my concern. They've had access to the kids since the 60s.

The sad thing is that Khrushchev told us what the communists were going to do way back then, and we all ignored it.

The question remains. How do we fight back using legal, peaceful means?

 

[HARRYM]

That's my concern. They've had access to the kids since the 60s.

The sad thing is that Khrushchev told us what the communists were going to do way back then, and we all ignored it.

The question remains. How do we fight back using legal, peaceful means?

I would be a very rich man if I knew that answer.

 

[BarnBuilder]

Before retirement I worked with a Liberal Twit who would straight up tell me that the Left was just waiting for us old guard folks to die off. We will win in the end he would say.

There is no Republican Party BTW so don't hold your breath waiting for them to show up.

That's Because

 

[MetroWest]

Do you mean the Guns-n-Gadgets video, or was there another one?

It's not posted yet, but the town has an on-demand video archive of TM and other meetings here:

Castus VOD Widget

sudbury.vod.castus.tv

The firearms article was presented during the last 50 minutes of TM session two on 5/2/23

They are way beyond the "common sense gun law" arguments, and are very clear that they want to ultimately eliminate the individual right to possess a firearm in the US.

 

[MetroWest]

The question remains. How do we fight back using legal, peaceful means?

The left is committed to spend time (serving on boards and committees, running for local, state, and federal office, etc.) and money to get want they want.
Tip O'Neil said "all politics are local"
We just want to be left alone but that's not the way it works anymore.
People on our side need to be willing to invest the time to counter their actions and messages. Being a moderate / conservative public voice goes a long way in countering their playbook.

 

[EJFudd]

And I'm sorry, but Republicans have been completely asleep at the switch on all of this.

There is no Republican Party BTW so don't hold your breath waiting for them to show up.

Once again, more bashing of the Republican Party because they are not always able to stop the majority DimocRATS.

Dims are evil as Hell, but they stick together like glue no matter what. "R's" just like to criticize and bash each other.

Hmmm. I wonder why we keep losing?

 

[Optimator]

It’s worth watching the video. The anti’s came out and stated we ultimately want to change the 2nd Amendment to only allow the military to possess firearms.
Although appalling, the clarity was amazing to hear out loud.

The older man who was maybe the 3rd to last speaker who espoused this idea did not have a fundamentally sound argument.

My recollection is that he started off by citing his 47 years of legal experience as the basis of his appeal to authority fallacies, and also deriding the fella who was a member of the Hudson Rod and Gun club. He went off on a tangent that RKBA is not absolute, but did not reconcile that with how it applied to Article 55, then contradicted Town Counsel's opinion by saying that Article 55 was legally justifiable, when in reality, it was potentially a legal nightmare that might cost the town a good amount of money to defend in court. Also telling that logic left the building was that he cited that Framingham has 11 gun stores, and Natick also had several... how would disallowing a gun store in Sudbury have any meaningful impact on gun violence if a perpetrator could easily drive 5-20 minutes south and pick a gun up?

 

[9mmcarbineguy]

May 1 meeting. "Banning sale, assembly and/or manufacture of firearms/components thereof , ammunition and explosives in ALL zoning district in th town of Sudbury."............

This article was defeated during last night's town meeting since it was potentially unconstitutional, would be hard to monitor and enforce due to its vagueness, and would in all probabality have been litigated in court costing the town substantial legal fees. Luckily several people spoke out about it and ultimately the "Select Board" voted 3 to 2 not to support it. The Town Counsel, Lee S. Smith from KP Law provided the town with an opinion that the article was likely unconstitutional and would probably be rejected my the Massachusetts Attorney General.

 

[MetroWest]

The older man who was maybe the 3rd to last speaker who espoused this idea did not have a fundamentally sound argument.

My recollection is that he started off by citing his 47 years of legal experience as the basis of his appeal to authority fallacies, and also deriding the fella who was a member of the Hudson Rod and Gun club. He went off on a tangent that RKBA is not absolute, but did not reconcile that with how it applied to Article 55, then contradicted Town Counsel's opinion by saying that Article 55 was legally justifiable, when in reality, it was potentially a legal nightmare that might cost the town a good amount of money to defend in court. Also telling that logic left the building was that he cited that Framingham has 11 gun stores, and Natick also had several... how would disallowing a gun store in Sudbury have any meaningful impact on gun violence if a perpetrator could easily drive 5-20 minutes south and pick a gun up?

I agree with your recollection. Unfortunately the lack of logic and lack of a sound argument doesn't matter to them.
The Sudbury Zoning Board of Appeals - a quasi-jurisdictional board that is supposed to follow the rule of law in their actions and deliberations voted unanimously to support the article. As did 35% of the attendees.
If it were just a zoning debate it would be one thing, but the sentiments that were expressed clearly showed their disdain for 2A and for 2A supporters.

 

[HARRYM]

Once again, more bashing of the Republican Party because they are not always able to stop the majority DimocRATS.

Dims are evil as Hell, but they stick together like glue no matter what. "R's" just like to criticize and bash each other.

Hmmm. I wonder why we keep losing?

Actually because we supported the Republican Party blindly we got roped into supporting RINOS, Globalists and NeoCons (myself included) and were told it was for the greater good.

And so here we are.

I'll sink or swim with MAGA and failing that I spend out my remaining days enjoying what time America and myself have left.

 

[drgrant]

Defeated but it will be back. I want to thank all the Sudbury residents that showed up in force. It was particularly telling that the select board opposed the article and more importantly that the town council thought this represents a total ban of firearm and ammo sales seen nowhere else in the US. He urged its defeat due to the litigation threat

Hopefully this point keeps getting brought up in regurgitation cycles of the same shit....

Moms, Everytown and the rest are well organized, well funded, and very tenacious.

They are not a trivial opponent, and are relentless in attacking guns from every angle possible.

Here's my question.

In every situation, you have 10% on either side that have made up their minds, and will not change their positions for any reason. That leaves 40% on each side who can be persuaded.

The problem is that the media, tech, and the rest have isolated each side, preventing messages from reaching them that don't line up with what the tech personal data machine has decided you are. Take Google for instance. If a progressive and a Republican search "quiche", both people with get different search results that Google has curated to fit what it thinks they want to see.

The question is how to reach the opposing 40%? The mainstream media on either side won't present fair and balanced coverage. The tech media like Facebook, Instagram, Google, Twitter and the rest filter, shadowban and manipulate.

How do you reach the other side with calm, rational information?

In mass in most places its festering commies, wouldn't surprise me if sudbury averages far left. In some regions you might have wobblies though which can be educated but it obviously takes legwork to see what one is fighting.

In mass it certainly is not 10%. In most places in MA 40 to 60 percent are going to be against you out of the gate. You're a little bit optimistic to the point of where somebody might accuse you of sniffing crack.... the best thing that can happen is if something like this happens in a 40% place you might have a chance of stopping it.

 

[drgrant]

And before somebody starts lecturing me about how many LTC holders there are in Mass remember a good portion of these people are f****** Moonbat fudds and are basically worthless. Trap on sundays fuddites don't care if gun shops get banned in their town they probably haven't bought a gun in a decade.....

 

[Blackbeard83]

And before somebody starts lecturing me about how many LTC holders there are in Mass remember a good portion of these people are f****** Moonbat fudds and are basically worthless. Trap on sundays fuddites don't care if gun shops get banned in their town they probably haven't bought a gun in a decade.....

So f'n true. Im friends with guy who has his hand guns, shotguns and even a pre ban AR but supports all this gun control sh*t... His thinking is "well I have mine so it wont affect me" type of attitude. I literally shaked my head and told him they will eventually come for his stuff too...

 

[drgrant]

So f'n true. Im friends with guy who has his hand guns, shotguns and even a pre ban AR but supports all this gun control sh*t... He thinking is "well I have mine so it wont affect me" type of attitude. I literally shaked my head and told him they will eventually come for his stuff too...

Then they start telling you about how they think the LTC process "really isn't that bad cuz the PD is friendly" etc. They can't wrap their head around the fact that most of the country doesn't require a special plastic card from gov to own/buy a gun and in a huge part of the US you can even carry a gun without a "LOICENSE" etc.

 

[M1911]

Then they start telling you about how they think the LTC process "really isn't that bad cuz the PD is friendly" etc. They can't wrap their head around the fact that most of the country doesn't require a special plastic card from gov to own/buy a gun and in a huge part of the US you can even carry a gun without a "LOICENSE" etc.

He likes that it is may issue and that it can be hard to get, because that makes him feel important.

 

[Blackbeard83]

Then they start telling you about how they think the LTC process "really isn't that bad cuz the PD is friendly" etc. They can't wrap their head around the fact that most of the country doesn't require a special plastic card from gov to own/buy a gun and in a huge part of the US you can even carry a gun without a "LOICENSE" etc.

Yup! He is Biden supporter who lives in a conservative town in MA. Of course its easy for him to get his Unrestricted LTC. Up untill last year he would have been stuck with H&T restrictions if he lived in say Brookline...

 

[MAJoe]

So f'n true. Im friends with guy who has his hand guns, shotguns and even a pre ban AR but supports all this gun control sh*t... He thinking is "well I have mine so it wont affect me" type of attitude. I literally shaked my head and told him they will eventually come for his stuff too...

These are the worst gun owners. Anti-gunners latch onto them and point “see, see, even gun owners want more restrictions”!

 

[chris_1001]

Yup! He is Biden supporter who lives in a conservative town in MA. Of course its easy for him to get his Unrestricted LTC. Up untill last year he would have been stuck with H&T restrictions if he lived in say Brookline...

I hope at least you are banging his wife…

 

[Blackbeard83]

These are the worst gun owners. Anti-gunners latch onto them and point “see, see, even gun owners want more restrictions”!

Agreed 100%!

I hope at least you are banging his wife…

Not good looking enough!

 

[Garys]

This is the problem with conservatives. We spend more time and effort sh*tting on each other than we do fighting the Leftists. They keep their internal squabbles internal and concentrate on beating us. "No enemies to the Left" is their motto and we should adopt the same type of philosophy.

People here who would spend 23 days talking to their liberal friends and relatives about why the gun laws are bad, what different types of guns do, reasons that people own than one gun and more than one type of gun, won't spend five minutes telling people who already own guns how we are all at risk of the Left gets it's way.

No wonder we get our hats handed to us at every turn.

 

[240Geezer]

This is the problem with conservatives. We spend more time and effort sh*tting on each other than we do fighting the Leftists. They keep their internal squabbles internal and concentrate on beating us. "No enemies to the Left" is their motto and we should adopt the same type of philosophy.

People here who would spend 23 days talking to their liberal friends and relatives about why the gun laws are bad, what different types of guns do, reasons that people own than one gun and more than one type of gun, won't spend five minutes telling people who already own guns how we are all at risk of the Left gets it's way.

No wonder we get our hats handed to us at every turn.

That's why they're them an we is us.

 

[Garys]

And that's why we lose more than we win.

That's why they're them an we is us.

 

[Blackbeard83]

And that's why we lose more than we win.

I will say though the left has recently been eating their own. Leftist going after other leftist that are not "woke enough". It is extremely slow but its happening. example Stephen King, Bill Maher, Ana Kasparian etc. have been getting attacked for the smallest sh*t. I hope it keeps happening till all this implodes.