I probably can't use it for legal purposes, but I'm sure I'll find some use. Since it will be in my pocket, the quality will probably suck since the mic is on my BB is not designed for what I would be using it for.
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Sportsmans Trading Co. Bad deal?
- Thread starter soloman02
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The dealer's going to be pissed if he was notified about the cc charge back by the bank. What do you think you are going there to pick up? Your friend should have waited until after he saw that the gun wasn't what he ordered and debated it with the dealer.
A deposit can quickly become non-refundable (or at least he could say that) after you pull something like that.
If he still offers you store credit after the gun is refused, pick up a couple items that you know you can sell and how much they are worth. Two ruger 10/22's or something.
Selling two 10/22's would be easier than having to explain to a judge in small claims court why you processed a credit card charge back prior to confirming the gun wasn't as claimed.
A deposit can quickly become non-refundable (or at least he could say that) after you pull something like that.
If he still offers you store credit after the gun is refused, pick up a couple items that you know you can sell and how much they are worth. Two ruger 10/22's or something.
Selling two 10/22's would be easier than having to explain to a judge in small claims court why you processed a credit card charge back prior to confirming the gun wasn't as claimed.
cstockwell
NES Member
i think you need to be worried about the legality of taping the shop owner without his knowledge. Wiretapping cases filed against people for just that reason. Many states allow it if only one party is aware of being taped. MA isn't one of them.
Grendel
Banned
More importantly, NH is a two party state.
Yea, I forgot about the whole two party thing, as much fun as the recording would be to listen to, it isn't gonna happen.
He didn't dispute the charges. Yet. The bank said he couldn't dispute them because the dealer hadn't even charged the account. So now we wait. Who thinks the gun will actually be there on Thursday or Friday?
When my friend backed out of the Mosquito, the dealer already said there were no refunds, even though the dealer hadn't received the gun (he had just barely ordered it, on a Sunday, therefore, it wasn't gonna be shipped out until Monday anyway). He supposedly made a call to whoever he was getting it from to cancel it. My friend was stupid for spending more money with this guy.
He didn't dispute the charges. Yet. The bank said he couldn't dispute them because the dealer hadn't even charged the account. So now we wait. Who thinks the gun will actually be there on Thursday or Friday?
When my friend backed out of the Mosquito, the dealer already said there were no refunds, even though the dealer hadn't received the gun (he had just barely ordered it, on a Sunday, therefore, it wasn't gonna be shipped out until Monday anyway). He supposedly made a call to whoever he was getting it from to cancel it. My friend was stupid for spending more money with this guy.
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So....... I'm the sucker that walked into this store that one fateful Saturday afternoon. I've been back and forth with Big Al the BS artist for 4 days in a row now. Between the 6 or 7 long conversations I've had with this guy i swear only 10 minutes of it was actually him telling me the truth. Now there's so much i could complain about but I don't need to to think about it anymore. My question to you guys is; how do you think I make out with the following deal, also if there were to be more to this madness what more can I do?
Walther P99 QA model WAP78013
Extra 12 rnd Mag
800 rnds Speer Independence 180 grain .40S&w
All for a grand total of $1010 and about 10hrs of BS from Big Al.
Walther P99 QA model WAP78013
Extra 12 rnd Mag
800 rnds Speer Independence 180 grain .40S&w
All for a grand total of $1010 and about 10hrs of BS from Big Al.
strangenh
NES Member
Well, I think you're maybe 5 or so percent over what that all would cost if you got good deals all around. The QA model seems to run from $640-$700, and that ammo's worth about $260, plus shipping, from ammunitiontogo. I think you came out basically OK... except for the runaround. ![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
I've never seen anyone say Al flat-out ripped them off, just ran them around to keep a deal live on something he couldn't actually get ahold of. The amount down on an order item is also pretty high - I've had other area dealers order things for me on less than 20% down. The spiel can also get incredibly annoying and the excuses for the delays are painful. Otherwise, it's buyer beware if the buyer doesn't realize how much lower than MSRP a gun can sell.
Once you realize you're essentially walking onto a used car lot, that whole store makes much more sense. Not that I'd pay his place another visit - there are too many other places that earn long-term customers by being reasonable (and accurate) right from the get-go.
I've never seen anyone say Al flat-out ripped them off, just ran them around to keep a deal live on something he couldn't actually get ahold of. The amount down on an order item is also pretty high - I've had other area dealers order things for me on less than 20% down. The spiel can also get incredibly annoying and the excuses for the delays are painful. Otherwise, it's buyer beware if the buyer doesn't realize how much lower than MSRP a gun can sell.
Once you realize you're essentially walking onto a used car lot, that whole store makes much more sense. Not that I'd pay his place another visit - there are too many other places that earn long-term customers by being reasonable (and accurate) right from the get-go.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Shooters-Hooksett
NES Member
It's too bad.
It really sucks to see people get screwed. - It's mostly the newbe's and the occasional other that stops in that gets it hard.
1. Mosquito's are Sig direct to dealers. They are backordered most of the time,and besides that,Sig never says exactly when it will arrive. If it was ordered while you were there-He's lying if he says that it will be there in a couple of days/week etc. The Sig sales people have no clue when the shipping department can get stuff out,and do not bullshit dealers with false delivery times.
2. The P99 - $550.00 would be the max you should pay,shop around and you can do a little better I'm sure.
3. Independ ammo is total crap - It makes WWB look like top shelf ammunition.
4. The reason you see WWB at STC at double the price of Wal-Mart,that's where he stops most every night on the way back to his house in "Derry".
(He even told me that)
5. The secret Warehouse(s) Interstate Arms/Camfour/Lew Horton etc. Just another B/S line to impress people.
6. If you ever need a price check - call any one of my clerks @ 603.668.9015 and ask one to look it up for you. Deduct 15% and $25.00 for shipping from what they tell you - and that's the cost at the distributor that we checked with.
Good luck - Jim
It really sucks to see people get screwed. - It's mostly the newbe's and the occasional other that stops in that gets it hard.
1. Mosquito's are Sig direct to dealers. They are backordered most of the time,and besides that,Sig never says exactly when it will arrive. If it was ordered while you were there-He's lying if he says that it will be there in a couple of days/week etc. The Sig sales people have no clue when the shipping department can get stuff out,and do not bullshit dealers with false delivery times.
2. The P99 - $550.00 would be the max you should pay,shop around and you can do a little better I'm sure.
3. Independ ammo is total crap - It makes WWB look like top shelf ammunition.
4. The reason you see WWB at STC at double the price of Wal-Mart,that's where he stops most every night on the way back to his house in "Derry".
(He even told me that)
5. The secret Warehouse(s) Interstate Arms/Camfour/Lew Horton etc. Just another B/S line to impress people.
6. If you ever need a price check - call any one of my clerks @ 603.668.9015 and ask one to look it up for you. Deduct 15% and $25.00 for shipping from what they tell you - and that's the cost at the distributor that we checked with.
Good luck - Jim
Hi, Spectre, and welcome to the forum.
![[wave]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/011.gif "Wave [wave]")
Don't beat yourself up too badly over this. The question now is how to proceed. If the dealer can actually get the exact gun you ordered in the condition you ordered it, you have to decide if you're going to take it at the agreed upon price. You're already into the deal for $400 cash, right? It doesn't sound like the dealer is going to refund that without a major hassle, probably involving legal action.
The best outcome might be if the dealer can't produce the gun in a timely fashion. If that's the case, you've got $400 hanging in the balance. You can either fight to get it back or use it to buy something else that you can turn over to recover some/most of your money. The following suggestion, in bold, is an excellent one:
I really hope this turns out okay for you. One thing that you can do is give the dealer $400 worth of bad publicity.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
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There is another issue to worry about though, this guy has a 15% restocking fee plus shipping and insurance on canceled items. First of all how common is that? Second the only way out is if he can't produce on time and then it's how late is too late? Over all if he takes me for the fees I think I'd be losing about the same amount if not more.
If he can't get you the gun then there shouldn't be any restocking fee, shipping, etc. since there isn't anything to restock. You hit the nail on the head with the part about timely delivery. Did he give you any kind of time frame for when he expected to get the gun?
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
I'm surprised that no one has suggested getting the AG in on this - if this guy won't refund money paid for something that he doesn't have (assuming that it's not there tomorrow afternoon), I'd think that the NH Attorney General's office might have some pointed things to say to this guy.
I don't normally do a lot of betting, but I'd bet that either:
A) The gun won't be there
or
B) It won't be the gun you ordered
If either is the case I would simply ask for a refund. He'll probably decline and offer you store credit, at which point you can look around for a $400 alternative, but definitely something that he actually has in the shop.
I know it's not the most palatable solution, but at least it would put an end to his baloney.
This dealer's antics reminds me of the Monty Python skit with the dead parrot.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I'm tempted to be the test case and cancel to see if he tries to charge me the restocking fee for a gun he doesn't have. If I find that MFL can give me a delivery date my next call will be to cancel the order. (not bad mouthing MFL the gun I want is back ordered everywhere and they have been very nice about telling me what they know for info, which is basically the distributors haven't gotten them in) If he tries to charge me the fee I could give the AG a call.
Not to drift too far off topic but the P99QA has a button on it, that if pressed, will turn the gun into a paperweight/doorstop. The gun will not fire after the takedown button is depressed, and that button exists in such a way that it could easily be pressed. Once this button is pressed, the gun cannot be restored to service without cycling the slide. Not a feature I would want on a firearm which is ostensibly intended as a lifesaving device.
-Mike
I am betting he gives you a BS excuse and then when you wanna cancel he will give you store credit but then you can't buy any firearm that he has in the case cause he will makeup some bs excuse that he can't sell that one..
for example I wanted a P22 and he had one in the case, so I said I want that one and how much.. well he said he can't sell that one because someone else already has a deposit on it and has the serial number on his receipt.. Okay find how much and when can you get it?? he gives me a price that is within reason and tells me by the end of the week.. Well it comes in at the end of the week.. Which is OMFG he actually told the truth on that one but to this day that P22 with the deposit is still sitting in the case..
So before you go there get some prices on ammo and then go there and ask him how much for some ammo.. Then ask if he has your gun, if not then tell him to cancel it and that you want your money back.. If he only give you store credit, use it all on ammo and then come here to sell the ammo.. The reason why I say to ask for price before canceling is because he might jack up the price once you cancel your order and screw you over again..
Good luck man.. I just wish he would go out of business cause he is giving other dealers a bad name..
I say NES field trip!!!!
for example I wanted a P22 and he had one in the case, so I said I want that one and how much.. well he said he can't sell that one because someone else already has a deposit on it and has the serial number on his receipt.. Okay find how much and when can you get it?? he gives me a price that is within reason and tells me by the end of the week.. Well it comes in at the end of the week.. Which is OMFG he actually told the truth on that one but to this day that P22 with the deposit is still sitting in the case..
So before you go there get some prices on ammo and then go there and ask him how much for some ammo.. Then ask if he has your gun, if not then tell him to cancel it and that you want your money back.. If he only give you store credit, use it all on ammo and then come here to sell the ammo.. The reason why I say to ask for price before canceling is because he might jack up the price once you cancel your order and screw you over again..
Good luck man.. I just wish he would go out of business cause he is giving other dealers a bad name..
I say NES field trip!!!!
Restock fees are relatively common... at least for product that the dealer has ACTUALLY BOUGHT.
My impression of this guy is that he gets peoples money, sits on it, and then runs around trying to find the gun at a really cheap price somehow to maximize his profits, instead of actually ORDERING it from somewhere.
-Mike
seanc
NES Member
If that is the case.. I would make him PROVE that the order has been placed, is in route or has been delivered.
If he has not placed the order with the distributor, then there would be no shipping or "restocking" fees. If he persists in trying to charge you, dispute it until he can show you:
a copy of his PO to the vendor (this will also show his cost).
MY understanding is that Gun distributors can't take verbal POs.. They have to be in writing.
The order confirmation from the vendor/ Invoice.
This should confirm the sku and serial number.
Tracking number of shipment..
If he can't won't provide those, then he can't prove any of the fees he wants to charge.
Restock fees are relatively common... at least for product that the dealer has ACTUALLY BOUGHT.
My impression of this guy is that he gets peoples money, sits on it, and then runs around trying to find the gun at a really cheap price somehow to maximize his profits, instead of actually ORDERING it from somewhere.
-Mike
Which leads me to believe he may try to pass off a used one as this sku (wap78013) is very difficult to get from Smith & Wesson in a timely manner. Or one that has the LE mags but the gun is a diff serial number from the test firing.
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I hate you!!
Good luck though, I hope it ends "well" for you, I'm still just pissy that I'm waiting going on 2 months.
Good luck. If he actually has the right gun for you, then you'll be OK. You may have paid a bit less elsewhere, but at least you'll end up with what you wanted without getting totally screwed, just hassled. Take it out to the range, forget about the aggravation, and enjoy it.
I hope the result gets posted. I'm really curious what the outcome will be. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the guy. I'd hate to see someone get soured on shooting because of a bad initial experience.
