Shooters Outpost going into Amherst NH (old Sportsmans Trading) Status

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jpk said:
I think its horrible the hoops/scrutiny the industry is under but Riverview was put out of business due to failure to comply with federal laws regarding sales of firearms.

I havent seen anyone gripe about having to comply with federal legislation regardless of whether or not its utter bullshit or not and as per your own characterization of what happened at Riverview it could happen at ANY shop and sadly enough does
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As a former FFL and can tell you that if the Feds develop a hard on for you, you're gone, full stop ,end of story period.
Even if you try to do it 100% down the line , your ass is grass.
I would love to be able to walk into Shooters and walk out with whatever my budget could handle, but I can't and I won't fault the guy for protecting what he built.
He didn't elect Maura Healy world police , we own that one.
 
wilson911 said:
That actually sounds like not complying with federal laws. Witch hunt or not, you gotta be in compliance. In this case they gave the feds the ammunition they needed.
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Compliance issues as in clerical errors. Missing a date, wrong date, 4473 mistakes etc. can you imagine the error rate at the NFA branch? Every compliance check I’ve had, I had to prove that I transferred machine-guns, suppressors and so forth, and that I had paperwork for ones in stock that didn’t show in the registry. I’ve had a FFL since I got out of the Army in 1981 and have transferred over 30,000 NFA items since that time. During my compliance checks, I have to prove myself with my paperwork time and time again.
 
xjma99 said:
Well that’s gay. And of course not. But I do support a business owners right to do whatever the F he wants to do in regards to his business (as long as his pants stay on, I do draw the line somewhere).

If he sucked at running a business I doubt he’d be in the process of opening a second location.....
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Tell that to Sears
 
Shooters-Hooksett said:
Compliance issues as in clerical errors. Missing a date, wrong date, 4473 mistakes etc. can you imagine the error rate at the NFA branch? Every compliance check I’ve had, I had to prove that I transferred machine-guns, suppressors and so forth, and that I had paperwork for ones in stock that didn’t show in the registry. I’ve had a FFL since I got out of the Army in 1981 and have transferred over 30,000 NFA items since that time. During my compliance checks, I have to prove myself with my paperwork time and time again.
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Ummm...what percentage of transfers do the Feds let you have before you are out of compliance? Is it 0%? If it is, then they were out of compliance. Like you said, it was a witch hunt, but not having the paperwork in order gave them a reason to shut him down. I am only responding to your initial comment that said they they got screwed....maybe so but the business owner there did it to himself.

Btw...not really arguing you, its not my business so it's just my opinion. I am a regular customer, have purchased from SO and you run a fine operation. I just take exception to the thought that the dealer in CT couldn't have helped himself if he were in compliance.

Btw, good luck in Amherst. I'll stick with hooksett....my Dr. said I gotta lower my blood pressure, so 101a is not an option for me!
 
Jim,
you and i have met. you are a good businessnman. you run the business the way you want. I respect what you do. Mass voted in the people that did these laws..here you are trying to justify hour policies based on laws they have created. The only redeeming part is they are complaining from Mass as opposed to moving here.

You're trying to reason with Trolls, no need to feed the trolls. they really aren't listening. you have made a good case. I would change my policy big time if i had to spend my time in court for selling $20 of ammo
 
40 caliber said:
Jim,
you and i have met. you are a good businessnman. you run the business the way you want. I respect what you do. Mass voted in the people that did these laws..here you are trying to justify hour policies based on laws they have created. The only redeeming part is they are complaining from Mass as opposed to moving here.

You're trying to reason with Trolls, no need to feed the trolls. they really aren't listening. you have made a good case. I would change my policy big time if i had to spend my time in court for selling $20 of ammo
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Thank you for the kind words. I do understand their frustrations as they get screwed at every turn. To take it out on any dealer for whatever they have for policy & procedures does nothing but erode the sport and the suppliers of the products. That’s exactly what the other side wants to do: “divide us”. I’m proud of the fact that we’ve encouraged thousands of people over the years to get into the shooting sports. We’ve taught “thousands” of people free gun safety courses over the years at my personal expense. We offer the classes for free to anyone that has purchased their first firearm even if they bought it elsewhere. Many of these people are safer when you meet them at a local club as a result. In addition to that- we support and raise money for Harbor Homes/ Veterans First. In the past few years that has amounted to tens of thousands of dollars to help fellow veterans that are less fortunate than some of us. I don’t have a store that just takes, I've built one that gives back. For that, I’m very proud.
 
To have this kind of dialogue with any well know business is great and shows that they do care about ppls thoughts and value future business. That I applaud you you for. That being said ..... What kind of deals do you have for legal MA ppl. What would be the main allure to choose shooters Outpost over other shops in the area? What sets your business apart?
 
wcjkd said:
To have this kind of dialogue with any well know business is great and shows that they do care about ppls thoughts and value future business. That I applaud you you for. That being said ..... What kind of deals do you have for legal MA ppl. What would be the main allure to choose shooters Outpost over other shops in the area? What sets your business apart?
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Instead of trying to answer this here, I’ll show you when I open that Amherst Store. I don’t know about you, but I believe things when I see them. That’s why I’d rather show you my commitment to Mass Residents with Fid/LTC cards and the Northeast Shooters Members from all over.
 
Shooters-Hooksett said:
Instead of trying to answer this here, I’ll show you when I open that Amherst Store. I don’t know about you, but I believe things when I see them. That’s why I’d rather show you my commitment to Mass Residents with Fid/LTC cards and the Northeast Shooters Members from all over.
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I look forward to the announcement.
 
Ooh! Shooter's Outpost-Amherst going to hold a NES Meet & Greet after its Grand Opening...?
I love scrimps! :emoji_fried_shrimp:

iu


In!
 
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40 caliber said:
Jim,
you and i have met. you are a good businessnman. you run the business the way you want. I respect what you do. Mass voted in the people that did these laws..here you are trying to justify hour policies based on laws they have created. The only redeeming part is they are complaining from Mass as opposed to moving here.

You're trying to reason with Trolls, no need to feed the trolls. they really aren't listening. you have made a good case. I would change my policy big time if i had to spend my time in court for selling $20 of ammo
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I dont think you've been following the thread in its entirety...this isnt a mAss issue, its a NH issue.

There are two buckets of types of experiences people have had at Shooters.

1. Revolves around following NEW HAMPSHIRE/FED law
2. Revolves around business practices that make it less/un desirable to shop there.

Regarding #1
The point that NEW HAMPSHIRE residents have made points out that Shooters goes WAY above and beyond what NH OR Fed law requires they do wrt ammunition and magazine purchases, the latter for which there are NO NH or Fed restrictions on so Shooters is blazing new ground here that literally no other retailer in NH is doing with the exception of wally world for ammo.

If Shooters is going to go above and beyond the law then I also believe they have a responsibility to their customers to explain/guarantee how their going to collect/retain/protect/share the personal information that they are requiring their customers to provide to them......

Regarding #2
When did requiring customers to sign the electronic pin pad AND a paper reciept become a reasonable thing?
Squirreling mags and other carded/packaged items back behind counters so far you cant even tell whats in stock is very unfriendly/counterproductive/makes for unpleasant shopping experience
Employees subsequently requiring that they then take non regulated items FROM you and put them downstairs at the register for purchase is waaay over the top.

I respect the hell out of the commitment Jim has made in his stores and share my experience/concerns because I would like to give him the opportunity to address them should he choose to do so because I would very much like to feel comfortable shopping there.

Its his business, his rules.

If he chooses not to address my concerns about following Fed/NH law and the practices inside the store that make it less than pleasant then thats his decision and I respect that.

His store/His rule

My dollars/My choice
 
Shooters-Hooksett said:
You’re wrong. Riverview was put out of business by having a few compliance issues. They had no more than smaller dealers have even with the volume he did. It was a witch hunt! If it were sold at Hoffman’s, Me, or any other place, they’d be gone now. That’s how reality works
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Of COURSE it was a witch hunt and one that you yourself stated could happen to ANY store because EVERY FFL has SOME small number of human errors on paperwork that have no bearing on legal/lawful transfers but nonetheless are a minor error.....dumb shit like not spelling out the county on a 4473 and instead allowing an abbreviation.......dumb shit that ATF will crucify a dealer for if they are looking for an excuse.

Shooters policies wrt ammunition and mags wont prevent Shooters from coming under the same scrutiny that Riverview did should there ever be a similar witch hunt to track down purchase of a firearm used in a crime.....because ATF doesnt regulate sale of ammunition or mags per se.
 
jpk said:
His store/His rule

My dollars/My choice
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i read the entire thread,,, Those are the only parts of your post above i agree with.. by the way,,, that is where we disagree.

he chose to address your concerns by sitting and talking to you and giving you all of his side of the story which is above and beyond what i would do . you just don't like the answer. the only way he will address your concerns is agreeing with you.

mass has F'd up the state so much no one wants to live there let alone do business there. The courts have created an unfriendly atmosphere for neighboring states that worked within their own NH/Fed laws... Jim has had to sit in a mass courts thanks to this... how many times would you that before you addressed it?

take your dollars where ever you want. and when you are not happy there see if mega mart of whatever will wilingly take your comments and be willing to have an adult conversation with you.. He's gone above and beyond already
 
40 caliber said:
i read the entire thread,,, Those are the only parts of your post above i agree with.. by the way,,, that is where we disagree.

he chose to address your concerns by sitting and talking to you and giving you all of his side of the story which is above and beyond what i would do . you just don't like the answer. the only way he will address your concerns is agreeing with you.

mass has F'd up the state so much no one wants to live there let alone do business there. The courts have created an unfriendly atmosphere for neighboring states that worked within their own NH/Fed laws... Jim has had to sit in a mass courts thanks to this... how many times would you that before you addressed it?

take your dollars where ever you want. and when you are not happy there see if mega mart of whatever will wilingly take your comments and be willing to have an adult conversation with you.. He's gone above and beyond already
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You just illustrated my own and others points so please stop trying to twist the argument around and suggest that people said something they didnt actually say

Shooters is asking its customers to comply with some set of rules they crafted that is far above and beyond state and federal law.

These rules are well understood to provide shooters with no additional protection under the law should they come under scrutiny of ATF or state of NH.....

Mass or ANY state outside of NH has no standing to bring suit against shooters unless shooters is doing mail order to out of state customers......NH AG has set the bar many times on mAss's attempts to collect taxes/regulate NH businesses that have mass customers that come to NH to do business.

At the same time they've provided no information on how they are retaining customer required information, how they are protecting it or who they may/may not share it with under <insert conditions/circumstances>

There are a plethora of small/quality shops inside of a 60 min drive of shooters that dont put its customers though the same "enhanced screening" nor do they collect/retain/share information on their customers beyond whats required by law.

His business/His Rules
My dollars/My choice

I dont think its too much to ask that shooters explain/post how they are retaining customer required information, how they are protecting it or who they may/may not share it with under <insert conditions/circumstances>
 
Lol it's not about legal protection it's a shit filtering hedge, eg, limit the probability of trigger event, risk goes down, rather simple, really. A lot of shops do this every day, with policies that exceed law, it's just that this one applies to ammo, so it's noticed by more.... but it's funny how when some other shop has a dumb policy, people only rarely go full retard about it. (common example in MA are huge differences between shops on cmr940 compliance interpretations... ) Also numerous shops in NH have refused to sell me stuff that's 110% legal, but I don't go around whining about it out of some misguided sense of what I would call "pious 2A moral puritanism...." [rofl]
 
40 caliber said:
responded and done, It's saturday, i have better things to do than this mental masturbation....

i refuse to feed the troll[troll]
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So expecting Shooters to explain to its customers how they are retaining customer required information, how they are protecting it or who they may/may not share it with under <insert conditions/circumstances> is now trolling?

ROFL.....you win the interwebz today for dumbest troll post of the day
 
drgrant said:
Lol it's not about legal protection it's a shit filtering hedge, eg, limit the probability of trigger event, risk goes down, rather simple, really. A lot of shops do this every day, with policies that exceed law, it's just that this one applies to ammo, so it's noticed by more.... but it's funny how when some other shop has a dumb policy, people only rarely go full retard about it. (common example in MA are huge differences between shops on cmr940 compliance interpretations... ) Also numerous shops in NH have refused to sell me stuff that's 110% legal, but I don't go around whining about it out of some misguided sense of what I would call "pious 2A moral puritanism...." [rofl]
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What NH shop has refused to sell you something with/without ID that is not regulated by Fed or NH law?
 
jpk said:
So expecting Shooters to explain to its customers how they are retaining customer required information, how they are protecting it or who they may/may not share it with under <insert conditions/circumstances> is now trolling?

ROFL.....you win the interwebz today for dumbest troll post of the day
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Are they retaining info? Not sure where that was established.
 
jpk said:
So expecting Shooters to explain to its customers how they are retaining customer required information, how they are protecting it or who they may/may not share it with under <insert conditions/circumstances> is now trolling?
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drgrant said:
Are they retaining info? Not sure where that was established.
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+1

Where did the "retaining customer required information" issue come from? Are you confusing Jim's operation with the old State Line (where they did retain customer info for sure - they had so much detail, my name was on a receipt for some boresnakes for which I paid cash)? Jim's people check ID, but I've never seen them record it for non-regulated transactions (not ammo and mags, either, even to MA residents).
 
drgrant said:
Are they retaining info? Not sure where that was established.
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Yep....anyone thats ever shopped there for ammo/mags has been required to provide them with ID which they then type info info from your ID into their computer systems.

It is not nor has it ever been a simple "Are you over 18/21" check
 
jpk said:
What NH shop has refused to sell you something with/without ID that is not regulated by Fed or NH law?
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I can name drop several shops but I'm not that kind of a cretin, lets just say they are shops that are well liked by many. One of them refused to sell my friend an MA legal wasr. (this was years ago long before healeyban). Ironically he got it at SO a month later with no issues. One of my favorite NH shops won't sell me certain rifles which I know are 100% legal here. I don't care, shop's gotta cover its ass, I get it. It's not enough to make me not patronize any of them. Pretending that you can undo the brain damage baked into these shop policies is just a waste of time. So I just visit a few different dealers and save my angst for more important things.

ETA: I reread your post, Re: " not regulated" ... What is the functional difference between a shop that won't sell an adult ammo and one that won't sell a 100% legal rifle to an LTC holder? There isn't one, both shops are "guilty" of the same thing- making store policy not concordant with the actual laws in effect.
 
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