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Screwed?
- Thread starter CRSIII
- Start date
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
kinda like MAC-address spoofing eh?
Bill Nance
Banned
What the hell are you talking about?![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Simple: A tow-truck costs many thousands of dollars (if you buy it) and is VERY easily id'd as stolen. (Ain't enough of them out there to blend in)
Any GTA operation that's using a tow-truck isn't interested in your friggin Toyota. They're after the high-end stuff.
And btw, when someone's car is repo'd, the Repo guy has to call the cops before the repo to let them know he's taking it and the consumer has been getting calls from the lender and also probably the repo agency for at LEAST 60 days.
Finally, since when is it legal in ANY state to use deadly force to stop a property crime outside your house? You pull it, you better be ready to use it.
The guy was dead wrong unless the report is entirely incorrect.
If I'm going to confront a guy that is on my property who I believe is committing a felony I am going out armed.
I am not saying that pointing a gun to his head is right in any way shape or form. Who knows what conversation took place when the car owner confronted the repo man.
The cops that I spoke with in east LA tell me differently.
I didn't say the guy was right because he should have known it was getting repo'd, but we don't know what he knew. The report is lacking many details.
I think he'd have been much better served making his damned car payments than buying a Glock Foh-tay...
NH State law
Code:
[B]II. A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person when he reasonably believes that such other person:[/B]
(a) Is about to use unlawful, deadly force against the actor or a third person;
(b) Is likely to use any unlawful force against a person present while committing or attempting to commit a burglary;
(c) Is committing or about to commit kidnapping or a forcible sex offense; or
(d) [B]Is likely to use any unlawful force in the commission of a felony against the actor within such actor's dwelling or its curtilage. [/B]The home owner may have thought the guy was going to harm him.
That's a bit of a stretch, if the story is correct in that the repo man was on his back under the car hooking up chains.
That's what he told police yes.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Back in 93, I was desperate to find a job as I'd just finished school and was running out of money fast. I interviewed at GMAC in Westborough to work in their Repo Call Center there. I figured the job was going to suck, but during the interview I also found out that if you were assigned a case that was local, you were required to go out with the tow truck driver to repo the car. I point blank asked the guy if anyone ever got a gun pulled on them or actually hurt doing that. His response of "No" had my mind screaming "LIAR" just by the way he said it.
I was offered that job and I'm glad I passed it up after reading stuff like this.
I was offered that job and I'm glad I passed it up after reading stuff like this.
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DISCLAIMER: Some Constables do repos. Most of us do NOT do them due to the dangers involved (see above). I've been told that they make ~$600 per car/truck they hook (this is the Constable/Repo Man fee). I've been asked to do them and absolutely refuse to get involved in this stuff . . . not worth getting shot at or beat/stabbed or having to shoot someone over it.
With that said . . .
He's likely going to face some serious charges. MA does NOT allow use of deadly force for anything except IMMEDIATE threat of serious bodily harm/death.
Very true, and you would have been already served with legal documents stating that the finance company was going to repossess the car. This just "doesn't happen" out of the blue. It must be done in a legal manner, much like an eviction or any other loan default. I have served many papers that reflected long overdue amounts for various equipment (all commercial loans to date) and that failure to pay up would result in repossession. All such papers I have served were issued by a Court of Law in some state.
Correct. Varies by state . . . in TX the guy can legally use deadly force to protect property and if he could later articulate that he thought it was a simple theft, he would likely get off even if he murdered the repo man. But MA is NOT TX! [And even in TX, if he'd been served notices of default he'd have a hard time convincing a judge/jury that he thought it was simple theft.]
Very true. This guy knew it was coming.
Agreed that PD is notified of repos (at least in most cases) in advance.
In TX such action would be legal if he could prove he was never notified of pending repo (highly unlikely).
In MA, the guy was dead wrong regardless of any withheld info. Can't use deadly force to protect property. Can only legally use deadly force if you are attacked first . . . coming out of the house makes him the automatic "aggressor" and thus he loses the legal battle of "self defense".
With that said . . .
He's likely going to face some serious charges. MA does NOT allow use of deadly force for anything except IMMEDIATE threat of serious bodily harm/death.
Very true, and you would have been already served with legal documents stating that the finance company was going to repossess the car. This just "doesn't happen" out of the blue. It must be done in a legal manner, much like an eviction or any other loan default. I have served many papers that reflected long overdue amounts for various equipment (all commercial loans to date) and that failure to pay up would result in repossession. All such papers I have served were issued by a Court of Law in some state.
Correct. Varies by state . . . in TX the guy can legally use deadly force to protect property and if he could later articulate that he thought it was a simple theft, he would likely get off even if he murdered the repo man. But MA is NOT TX! [And even in TX, if he'd been served notices of default he'd have a hard time convincing a judge/jury that he thought it was simple theft.]
Very true. This guy knew it was coming.
Agreed that PD is notified of repos (at least in most cases) in advance.
In TX such action would be legal if he could prove he was never notified of pending repo (highly unlikely).
In MA, the guy was dead wrong regardless of any withheld info. Can't use deadly force to protect property. Can only legally use deadly force if you are attacked first . . . coming out of the house makes him the automatic "aggressor" and thus he loses the legal battle of "self defense".
Bill,
Is there any type of special ID that a repo man is supposed to carry to prove he is a repo man? I wouldn't ever have a car repo'd but if I did I wouldn't know if a repo man was legit or not.
Is there any type of special ID that a repo man is supposed to carry to prove he is a repo man? I wouldn't ever have a car repo'd but if I did I wouldn't know if a repo man was legit or not.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
First off, my bet is for "screwed".
If I ever see a towtruck hooking up my car, I will assume that it is being stolen - my car is paid off; ergo, it can't be being repo'd. Hello, 911.
I thought that there was a LOT of profit in chopping cars up for parts?
In MA, if you are outside your house you also need to retreat, if it is safe to do so, before using deadly force.
I'm not sure I would go that far, but it certainly doesn't help his case.
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W
wolf223
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
centermass181
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Im glad to see the guy with the gun getting charged. Defense of personal property does constitute legal use of a firearm, so he was charged as he should have been.
I wonder how many repo men carry though, could a repo man have shot the guy and it been called self defense?
I wonder how many repo men carry though, could a repo man have shot the guy and it been called self defense?
Texas. According to the recent death of two crooks, it doesn't even have to be YOUR house, either.
What is "allowed" in Massachusetts and what is "right" are two different things. One blatantly doesn't equal the other.
Side note: I had a repo man checking out my truck in my driveway a few months ago. My wife confronted him and he essentially told her to eff off. He was gone by the time I got outside. Lucky for him.
He was looking for my neighbor's truck, which is the same make/model but different year/color.
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I'm saddened that
A) You're not allowed to defend your property
and
B) So many of you seem to think that's a good thing.
A) You're not allowed to defend your property
and
B) So many of you seem to think that's a good thing.
SteelShooter
NES Member
CRSIII
NES Member
While defence of property should be allowed, sadly, it is not. As a holder of LTC, it is up to him to know the law and not violate it. Hence, he is, screwed.[sad2]
Garys
NES Member
I agree. Many people in New England, even those who own guns for self defense seem to buy into the "no property is worth killing over". I disagree and think that this attitude emboldens thieves and robbers. Unlike liberals, I think that if a robber knew that he ran a good risk of getting shot, he'd think twice before attacking someone. All too many non liberals have bought into the notion that you should only be able to defend your life, but not your property.
My property is mine because I paid for it, which means I worked for it. To replace it, even with insurance, I'm going to have to work to buy it AGAIN. Which means that I'm not going to be able to use that money to buy or do something else. So, losing the property costs me twice, not once.
I should be able to defend against someone taking it. If they think it's worth risking me killing them, then they are welcome to try.
I caught that too. Maybe a Glock 22 (which is actually chambered in .40 S&W)?
It ceased becoming his property when then lien holder called it in.
+1. Good post here (as usual).
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A Russian immigrant/naturalized US citizen I once worked with was a far better American than most people born in this country. His theory was "I spend part of my life working, and use my earnings to buy stuff. If someone tries to steal my stuff, they are trying to steal the part of my life I spent working to earn the money to buy that stuff". Certainly an interesting perspective.\
Back on topic -
People will know "reposessions" are coming, but can be blindsided by a constable or sheriff's seizure of a car to pay a small claims court judgement brought by a creditor not related to any car loan: http://www.boston.com/news/special/spotlight_debt/part3/page1.html
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Sure they can.
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True, there are court papers served PRIOR to any attempt to repo property.
That story sensationalized some sleazy activity on the part of some collection agencies . . . where they INTENTIONALLY had papers served to a WRONG address to force the situation (if you don't defend yourself in court, you automatically lose) . . . and then they "Found" the correct address only when the repo order was issued! As a Constable, I would not want to get tangled up with that mess . . . some in that series of articles may have known what they were involved in and others might not.
Exactly correct. I had an eviction where the woman claimed that since she still had the deed, the house was hers . . . and I guess she believed that there was no need to pay for it! She hadn't paid the mortgage for 14 months and even argued with the judge when he spent 45 minutes in chambers explaining the process and system to her. She refused to leave and ended up leaving in silver bracelets (arrested for criminal trespass).
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I worked as a repo man about 25 years ago.
From what I remember, we were not allowed to take a car from the owner's property. If their car was in the driveway, we would knock on the door and ask them for the keys, or we would have to go to their workplace to get it. Usually they would just say get lost, sometimes they would just let us have it. We never snatched a car unless the owner wasn't going to give it up.
I don't know if that was company policy or the law to not go on private property, but we didn't do it.
The owner would also get multiple phone calls, telling them that the vehicle was going to be repossessed unless they dealt with the situation. That guy HAD to know the repo man was the person taking the car.
It was a crappy job. Going to work in the middle of the freezing winter nights, picking up the cars the next day with the tow truck from where we "parked" it. Lots of cars were empty of gas, or the clutch was shot, etc...
Some people just hit hard times, which made me feel bad, but others were sleazes, which made me feel good.
The police were always notified either before or just after the car was reclaimed. Usually before, if there was any chance of trouble. This was before cellphones, so we would call the police to notify them asap.
We ALWAYS had the paperwork with us on the spot.
I was only 21. I wouldn't do that job again.
From what I remember, we were not allowed to take a car from the owner's property. If their car was in the driveway, we would knock on the door and ask them for the keys, or we would have to go to their workplace to get it. Usually they would just say get lost, sometimes they would just let us have it. We never snatched a car unless the owner wasn't going to give it up.
I don't know if that was company policy or the law to not go on private property, but we didn't do it.
The owner would also get multiple phone calls, telling them that the vehicle was going to be repossessed unless they dealt with the situation. That guy HAD to know the repo man was the person taking the car.
It was a crappy job. Going to work in the middle of the freezing winter nights, picking up the cars the next day with the tow truck from where we "parked" it. Lots of cars were empty of gas, or the clutch was shot, etc...
Some people just hit hard times, which made me feel bad, but others were sleazes, which made me feel good.
The police were always notified either before or just after the car was reclaimed. Usually before, if there was any chance of trouble. This was before cellphones, so we would call the police to notify them asap.
We ALWAYS had the paperwork with us on the spot.
I was only 21. I wouldn't do that job again.
