Saw two Loomis security guards (or armored car drivers) open carrying at the mall.

Not really understanding why they get a 25% fee. They aren't doing anything, supplying you with anything, or business networking. So why do it and let these thieves take your money?

Indeed. Romney had it written into law and thus they can do it legally. Both state-wide Constables assns are tiny (50-80 members each vs. in excess of 3K total Constables in MA) and have no political clout or funds to fight this.

Had this and numerous other recent changes in laws/EOs occurred before I ever was appointed . . . knowing what I know now, I would never have opted to become a Constable.

For the same reason dogs lick their private parts.

Well stated.
 
Indeed. Romney had it written into law and thus they can do it legally. Both state-wide Constables assns are tiny (50-80 members each vs. in excess of 3K total Constables in MA) and have no political clout or funds to fight this.

Had this and numerous other recent changes in laws/EOs occurred before I ever was appointed . . . knowing what I know now, I would never have opted to become a Constable.



Well stated.

You are thinking too narrowly on the subject. Because of course these fees are passed along to the consumer of the service, this is effectively a TAX on victims of civil crime. Your constable orgs should have linked up with the trial attorneys and other victims groups. Much bigger numbers. It's all how you sell it.
 
Anyone with an LTC can openly carry in MA. The difference is that people don't usually call the cops on guys in security guard uniforms. No, I'm not kidding. That is the only real difference.

If you made up a nice looking uniform that said "Heywood Jablome Armored Services" with an eagle crest badge, people would ignore you, for the most part. "Oh, security guard.... gun is scary but since he has a shiny nametag and crest im not going to call the cops on him" that's the moonbat thought process, at least.

-Mike

Not to jack the thread a bit...but let me ask this...by anyone with an LTC, do you mean including those with restrictions, could, in theory, open carry? Believe me I'm totally as aware as the rest of you that it's not a good idea here in MA and 99% chance one would get slapped with a brandishing or disturbing the peace charge...but I'm just curious how this applies to those of us with say...a target and hunting restriction. Does that restriction only prohibit concealed carry, but not open carry? I had asked an NRA certified instructor this same question once and he replied no you absolutely can't, and I just want to make sure I got the right information. Once again I will state "in theory," because believe me I'm not dumb enough to make up a security uniform just so I can carry my firearm around with me while "hopefully" not upsetting the sheeple and LEO's too much. However, it sucks there is no law prohibiting one from doing so yet you still can get in a boatload of shit for doing it
 
You are thinking too narrowly on the subject. Because of course these fees are passed along to the consumer of the service, this is effectively a TAX on victims of civil crime. Your constable orgs should have linked up with the trial attorneys and other victims groups. Much bigger numbers. It's all how you sell it.

Wish this was true. Service fees are defined in MGLs and have only changed once in >20 years. Typically that same law change mandated a 50% increase in service fees and then stated that 50% of that increase be paid to the town on a monthly basis. And the fees are set at $20 and $30 for most service currently so you are working for poverty wages. The big boost was that we used to be allowed $0.10/mile until this change and then it went to ~$0.40/mile (I guarantee that legistraitors and state employees have been getting much more than $0.10/mile for many, many years).
 
Wish this was true. Service fees are defined in MGLs and have only changed once in >20 years. Typically that same law change mandated a 50% increase in service fees and then stated that 50% of that increase be paid to the town on a monthly basis. And the fees are set at $20 and $30 for most service currently so you are working for poverty wages. The big boost was that we used to be allowed $0.10/mile until this change and then it went to ~$0.40/mile (I guarantee that legistraitors and state employees have been getting much more than $0.10/mile for many, many years).

Well crap, if they are price capping then yeah, that's done.
 
Not to jack the thread a bit...but let me ask this...by anyone with an LTC, do you mean including those with restrictions, could, in theory, open carry? Believe me I'm totally as aware as the rest of you that it's not a good idea here in MA and 99% chance one would get slapped with a brandishing or disturbing the peace charge...but I'm just curious how this applies to those of us with say...a target and hunting restriction. Does that restriction only prohibit concealed carry, but not open carry?

Restrictions can mean whatever the issuing authority wants them to mean. I should have clarified that. Obviously if the restriction said "No Carry" or "Sporting Only" then that still applies.

The real problem is not a "disturbing the peace" charge... the real problem is a suitability denial if your issuing authority dislikes the practice or is itching to pull licenses.

BTW, there is no such thing as "Brandishing" in MA. Here the closest thing is called "assault with a deadly weapon. " You cannot really be charged with AWDW by merely having a holstered firearm, at least not to my knowledge.

Bear in mind a PD or a bad LEO doesn't need a criminal charge to make a gun owner's life miserable in this state... it takes a lot less than that.

-Mike
 
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Thanks for the clarification drgrant! Now...call me even crazier...but lets say your license says restriction: target and hunting...but not target and hunting "only,"...I wonder if since the meaning of said restrictions is not laid out in M.G.L, and is left up to what the issuing PD wants them to mean, if a really good attorney could argue that since the restriction was not limited to target and hunting (since lacking the world "only") if it could be argued that concealed carry is legal for the individual and not a misdemeanor under those restrictions. It's like playing russian roulette, but I'm quite curious if that point could be argued

And to answer Serapis's question above...I believe constables are not subjected to the same stripped firearms as the rest of us, as LEO's and the like may possess all the evil features they want along with post-ban high cap mags (to my knowledge)
 
And to answer Serapis's question above...I believe constables are not subjected to the same stripped firearms as the rest of us, as LEO's and the like may possess all the evil features they want along with post-ban high cap mags (to my knowledge)

Reasonably correct. If it is a firearm that can be used for "duty use" (on or off duty) then they are exempt from AG's Regs BS. ALL LEOs can only buy handguns on the EOPS List (or grandfathered) too . . . former Sen. Jacques hated cops too (she wrote the law). So ARs must comply with AWB, as it's not a usual gun used by Constables.
 
Kubler-Ross-NES 5 Stages of Grief for a Restricted License

Denial stage: It won't happen to me. I have a pristine record and am a respected member of the community
Anger stage: Why that &^%!....
Bargaining stage: Writing Letters, Making Calls, Lawyering Up
Depression stage: Final realization of the inevitable.
Acceptance stage: Go to the range and have fun. Get a CCW from Florida and Utah. Go on a road trip.
 
Kubler-Ross-NES 5 Stages of Grief for a Restricted License

Denial stage: It won't happen to me. I have a pristine record and am a respected member of the community
Anger stage: Why that &^%!....
Bargaining stage: Writing Letters, Making Calls, Lawyering Up
Depression stage: Final realization of the inevitable.
Acceptance stage: Go to the range and have fun. Get a CCW from Florida and Utah. Go on a road trip.

*sigh* SO true unfortunately
 
I was there once. I think we're going to make some inroads with GOAL's proposed legislation. Have faith. It ain't you - the asylum is being run by the inmates, all of them a card or two short of a full deck. AND ALL THE JOKERS ARE WILD.
 
Indeed. Romney had it written into law and thus they can do it legally. Both state-wide Constables assns are tiny (50-80 members each vs. in excess of 3K total Constables in MA) and have no political clout or funds to fight this.

Had this and numerous other recent changes in laws/EOs occurred before I ever was appointed . . . knowing what I know now, I would never have opted to become a Constable.



Well stated.

I understand they're taking the money because they can. However, there is usually some impetus for this to be written into law, even if it is total BS.
 
I understand they're taking the money because they can. However, there is usually some impetus for this to be written into law, even if it is total BS.

Romney cut state aid to the cities/towns and did this to throw them a bone, claiming it would make up for lost revenue. I guess they never figured out what the average Constable actually makes in MA! There are also other large holes in this law/fee . . . any adult can serve a subpoena, but unless they are a Constable they don't have to share the proceeds. [Sheriffs Depts also have to pay, but ONLY IF they receive a budget from the state . . . some don't get any state money and thus don't have to pay.]
 
Romney cut state aid to the cities/towns and did this to throw them a bone, claiming it would make up for lost revenue. I guess they never figured out what the average Constable actually makes in MA! There are also other large holes in this law/fee . . . any adult can serve a subpoena, but unless they are a Constable they don't have to share the proceeds. [Sheriffs Depts also have to pay, but ONLY IF they receive a budget from the state . . . some don't get any state money and thus don't have to pay.]

Thanks LenS....I figured there was some reason....but like I suspected, complete BS. Yeah, single out one group for 25% of their limited compensation because the state f'ed up.
 
Several years ago I was pretty friendly with this uniform Brockton Cop. Nice guy. He was carrying his recently issued Glock at the time. On his Sam Brown he had a double mag carrier. I asked him how many rounds he had in both his spare mags. "Both", he said. "I only carry one". "That's all the Department issued". "I'm not paying for a spare mag out of my own pocket". When he said this he was working a detail. One of the many he worked each week.

Just because they HAVE to carry a firearm, does not mean they are part of the "gun culture".

Yes, however, dont you think that if your job requires you to carry a gun, you wold at least invest enough time to check out fireamrs to find something reliable that may end up saving your skin? Or else, what is the point of taking that job if you dont care about the most important aspect of it: saving your life!!
 
*sigh* SO true unfortunately

Kubler-Ross-NES 5 Stages of Grief for a Restricted License

Denial stage: It won't happen to me. I have a pristine record and am a respected member of the community
Anger stage: Why that &^%!....
Bargaining stage: Writing Letters, Making Calls, Lawyering Up
Depression stage: Final realization of the inevitable.
Acceptance stage: Go to the range and have fun. Get a CCW from Florida and Utah. Go on a road trip.

Don't forget the "I'm packing my sh*t and leaving this Godforsaken state" stage
 
Yes, however, dont you think that if your job requires you to carry a gun, you wold at least invest enough time to check out fireamrs to find something reliable that may end up saving your skin? Or else, what is the point of taking that job if you dont care about the most important aspect of it: saving your life!!

Totally agree
+1
 
Well, it seems I got a unicorn, my Para LTC has never let me down, and I have put 700-800 rounds thru her. Granted, I bought it used, and maybe the person who owned it before me had some work done to it, none that I can tell though. She shoots straight and true. ...



Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day. [smile]

That being said, my Para goes bang when its supposed to, so apparently they made two good ones.[laugh]
 
I learned my lesson talking about Para's here. But , - I have an easy 10,000 rounds through my single stack Para SSP. I have never had a malfunction that wasn't mag related.
There's a youtube vid of someone - Todd Jarret ? - putting 10,00 through one nonstop. other than getting too hot to hold it ran fine.

I know I am wrong because people here with 10,000 posts tell me it can't happen , but ... Oh, wait. I'm sorry - I am wrong : I did have a problem last week. The set screw on the rear sight loosened and the sight shifted. I put at least 150 rounds through it twice a week for a few years and this disgrace happens ? I know I should have had the gun destroyed , but instead I turned the screw with a tool.

Either I have a Colt that somehow ended up stamped with Para on the slide , or some of our experts ... aren't.
 
I learned my lesson talking about Para's here. But , - I have an easy 10,000 rounds through my single stack Para SSP. I have never had a malfunction that wasn't mag related.
There's a youtube vid of someone - Todd Jarret ? - putting 10,00 through one nonstop. other than getting too hot to hold it ran fine.

I know I am wrong because people here with 10,000 posts tell me it can't happen , but ... Oh, wait. I'm sorry - I am wrong : I did have a problem last week. The set screw on the rear sight loosened and the sight shifted. I put at least 150 rounds through it twice a week for a few years and this disgrace happens ? I know I should have had the gun destroyed , but instead I turned the screw with a tool.

Either I have a Colt that somehow ended up stamped with Para on the slide , or some of our experts ... aren't.

It can happen with any product. My 1999 Mercury Mountaineer was a big POS and there were a lot of problems with it by publications. On the other hand, my MIL loves hers and most likely wants to be burried in it. It's not that these people aren't knowledgeable. The problem is the many reports of problems in posts, articles, etc. It also depends on when yours was made. Kimber was considered to be the sh*t up until a year or two ago. Now I'm hearing they are plagued by quality control issues. In short, neither you or the experts are wrong, just be thankful you got a good one.
 
MGLs come from "old England" so they actually give Constables very broad powers by statute. However organized and paid police departments and unions have replaced most statutory functions of Constables (in MA) in reality.

examples:
- MGLs Ch. 90 S. 1 empowers Constables to enforce motor vehicle law. However, RMV controls citation books and will only give them to municipal and state police agencies. But no great loss since we get paid by clients (law firms or pro-see clients), we'd be going to court on our own nickle and not even get reimbursed for out time and expenses if we handed out citation.

- MGL Ch. 56 Sect. 57 – which states “. . . constables shall arrest without a warrant any person detected in the act of violating any provision of . . .“ the election laws. [You won't find a Constable working the polling places, unions have seen to it that only the PD does this detail.]

- MGL Ch. 41 Sect. 95 – “If a warrant is issued against a person for an alleged crime committed within any town, any constable thereof to whom the warrant is directed may apprehend him in any place in the commonwealth.”

So, in reality what do Constables do?:

- Serve legal papers for lawyers, landlords and pro-see clients who pay us directly.

- Perform evictions.

- Some will seize property with a court order and auction it off for the benefit of the winner of a lawsuit.

- Some will serve capiases (arrest warrants) issued by the court. These are usually for "contempt of court" in small claims cases. Others are deadbeat dads that the court has ordered arrested and brought before the court for non-payment of support decrees.

Police Officers are forbidden from serving civil process (including making civil arrests as noted above) by MGLs. The statute that empowers police officers MGLs Ch. 41 S. 98 starts as follows:


http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98.htm

So, when POs state that Constables aren't LEOs, what would that make a PO?? [devil]

Frankly, I think much of society would be better off with more constables and fewer POs.......just my opinion YMMV.
 
ME :
Either I have a Colt that somehow ended up stamped with Para on the slide , or some of our experts ... aren't.

You know what ? That may have been a bit harsh. Not trying to offend people who have valuable experiences and opinions based on them.

So , present company excluded - I do value the advice I receive here - it's the rest of the internet where I am finding that I may know more about a few tiny things than people with huge post counts , strong opinions and sharply tuned sarcasm and attitudes.

So - Para = Bad , except the ones that aren't . ( After I posted I pulled up my calculator , and mathed the thing ... Add Macintosh calculators to the list of stuff that doesn't work , 'cause it's looking like I may have much closer to 50k through the Para. It was late , I am a dummy.

150 rounds ( Mrs Folger's plastic can , actually 175 but sometimes I come home with a few left over ). times twice a week is 300 per week .
50 weeks is 300 x 50 is fifteen thou
Times 3 years
45 k , not 10 thou.

subtract half because this is the internet , I must be lying , still comes out to 22.5 thousand.

Jesus , don't let my wife see this .... 45 cases of ammo. ....
 
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About 6-7 years ago the MA SP website had the history of the MSP as starting with the appointment of one Constable and 34(?) Deputy Constables. All that info was removed a few years ago, I suspect for political reasons and I have not been able to find it since then (should try the wayback web machine), Every new Sec. of Public Safety gets to change the website and thus I think that it became a casualty. It was a rather interesting story. [I remember sitting in a large conference room at One Ashburton Place, having a 1 on 1 meeting with the Secretary of Public Safety and she asked me "Constables don't have MV authority, do they?" At the time I told her trhat I didn't know but suspected not . . . later looking at Ch. 90 S. 1 I found that we actually do under statute. The purpose of my meeting was to discuss EOPS (who controlled the police academies) starting up a dedicated academy for Constables.]

Here's a lot more on the History of Constables (in MA):

http://www.constable.com/history.html2

History on Constables

Ancient in origin, the office of Constable has been of high power and prestige in the history of the world. In feudal times, the office of Constable was one of high military rank, and eventually ex officio commander in chief of the military forces. He was the highest judge in military offenses and in questions of chivalry and honor. He was the supreme arbitrator in tilts, tournaments and martial displays.

The term High Office of Constable appears in England shortly after the Conquest as the seventh great officer of the Crown, possessing both Civil and Criminal powers. Since the year 1521, the title of High Constable has not been granted except for a special ceremony of state.

The Constable has been a part of our American civilization since the earliest of Colonial times. In each of our original communities, the Constable was one of the earliest offices created, and it was his important duty to keep the king's peace.

The Constable continues today as a public officer possessing extensive powers. See Hartley Vs. Inhabitants of Granville 216 Mass.38. However the duties of Constables have been modified from time to time by custom and statue.

Some Powers and Duties

Constables possess somewhat extensive powers. Blackstone Commentaries 356. There may be a residue of common law power contained in the office of Constable, but not withstanding this, the office is vested with a broad range of statutory power. The statue providing the general powers of Constables goes so far as to give them the powers of sheriffs to require aid in the execution of their duties. G.L.c.41, section 94 reads in whole:

"Constables may serve the writs and processes described in section ninety-two and warrants and processes in criminal cases although their town, parish, religious society or district is a party or interested. They shall have the powers of sheriffs to require aid in their execution of their duties. They shall take due notice of and prosecute all violations of law respecting the observance of the Lord's day, profane swearing and gaming. They serve all warrants and other processes directed to them by the selectmen of their town for notifying town meetings or for other purposes. They may serve by copy, attested by them, demands, notices and citations, and their returns of service thereof shall be prima facie evidence; but this provision shall not exclude the service thereof by other persons."

In conjunction with this, if a citizen neglects or refuses to assist the Constable in the execution of his duties in a criminal case, in the preservation of the peace or in the apprehension or securing of a person for a breach of the peace, or in a case of escape or rescue of persons arrested upon civil process, then that citizen is subject to fine or imprisonment. G.L.c.286,section24.

A Constable possesses a power of entry not generally found in most municipal offices. G.L.c.140,section 201 provides in whole:

"A sheriff, Marshall or their deputies, a constable or police officer may at any time enter a billiard, pool or sippio room, bowling alley, skating rink, the licensed premises of a common victualer or room connected therewith, or a grove required to be licensed under section one hundred and eighty-eight, or any building therein, for the purpose of enforcing any law; and whoever obstructs or hinders the entrance of such officer shall be punished by a fine of not less than five nor more than twenty dollars."

As the powers of the Constable unfold in this memorandum, the words of Chief Justice Rugg take on a significant meaning. He said, in Hartley Vs. Inhabitants of Granville. (supra) "The theory on which the office is now based (apart from the function of serving papers) is that a number of competent men scattered throughout the territory of each of the county towns, charged with such duties, is an important factor in making them safe for residence by law abiding people." The office is to be reserved for only the most competent and responsible of men.

Indeed, Constables possess the awesome power of arrest in certain circumstances. An illustration of the power of arrest is contained in G.L.c.271, section 2, which reads;

"Whoever, in a public conveyance or public place, or in a private place upon which he is trespassing, playing at cards, dice or any other game for money or other property, or bets on the sides or hands of those playing, shall forfeit not more than fifty dollars or be imprisoned for not more than three months; and whoever sets up or permits such a game shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not less than three nor more than twelve months. If discovered in the act, he may be arrested without a warrant by a sheriff, deputy sheriff, constable or any officer qualified to serve criminal process, and held in custody, in jail or otherwise, for not more than twenty-four hours, Sunday and legal holidays excepted, until complaint may be made against him for such offense."

And again in c.138, section 55, the Constable is given the power of arrest without warrant "any person whom he finds in the act of illegally manufacturing, selling or exposing or keeping for sale, storing, transporting, importing or exporting alcoholic beverages or alcohol......"

The Constable, under G.L.c.266, section 120, may arrest without a warrant any person who he finds committing a trespass, after notice, upon " a dwelling house, building, boat or improved or enclosed land, wharf or pier of another........"G.L.c.160, section 220 confers upon the Constable the power of arrest without a warrant in certain cases involving persons unlawfully riding upon a" locomotive engine, tender, freight car, caboose or other conveyance not part of a passenger train."

The Constable, may arrest without a warrant, any person who is " keeping a house, room or place resorted to for prostitution or lewdness, "as provided in G.L.c.272, section 10.

The Constable has the statutory power of arrest in several other instances, notably, inter alia, under our health laws. He has also the common law and statutory power to arrest in cases involving breach of the peace.

It is significant to note here that the power of the Constable predates the powers vested in our organized police forces, and is independent thereto. It is for this reason that our police offices, both state and local derive much of their power from that of Constables. Hence, G.L.c.41, section 98 confers Constabulary powers on our police. " The Chief and other police officers of all cities and towns shall have all the powers and duties of constables except serving and executing civil process." G.L.c.22, section 9A confers these Constabulary powers upon our state police.

In some instances the Constable has the power to pre-empt our local officials. For example, our Chief of Police as keeper of the lockup, as required by G.L.c.40, section 37 must make the local lockup accessible to the Constable and if he fails or refuses to do so, he is subject to fine. And, under G.L.c.41, section 39 "if a person appointed to collect taxes in a town refuses to serve, or if no person is elected or appointed a collector of taxes, the Constables of the town shall be the collector of taxes."

The Constable has the power to enforce our election laws and, under G.L.c.56, section 57 has the power to arrest without a warrant violators thereof.

And, even the local drug store is not exempt from the jurisdiction of the Constable, G.L.c.138, section 30F provides that the doings and books of the pharmacy be open to the Constable.

Further, "The jurisdiction of a constable in ordinary cases, is limited to the Town in which he is (appointed), but for special cases, there are exceptions to this rule." Beard Vs. Seavey, 191 Mass. 503. For example, " A Constable may arrest on a capias, in a criminal case, outside the town for which he was (appointed) but within the same county, and within the jurisdiction of the court issuing the warrant. Sullivan Vs. Wentworth 137 Mass. 233. And also within this context I commend to you G.L.c.41, section 95:

"A Constable, in the execution of a warrant or writ directed to him, may convey prisoners and property in his custody under such process beyond the limits of his town, either to the justice who issued it or to the jail or house of correction of his county. If a warrant is issued against a person for an alleged crime committed within any town, any constable thereof to whom the warrant is directed may apprehend him in any place in the commonwealth."

In most cases, an applicant for the office of Constable will not be aware of the broad range of powers connected with the office. He will be concerned usually with the service of civil process only. G.L.c.41, section 92 provides in parts, a Constable, "may within in his town serve any writ or other process in a personal action in which the damages are not laid at a greater sum than eight hundred dollars, and in a replevin in which the subject matter does not exceed in value eight hundred dollars, and any writ or other process under chapter two hundred and thirty-nine."

A two pronged caveat is in order here. First, while an applicant might be primarily concerned with the civil process aspect of the office, there are cases where a Constable has recklessly invoked his non-civil powers to the great detriment and embarrassment of both the Appointing Authority and the Court. Secondly, on the question of service of civil process, there is a voluminous body of knowledge required to adequately perform in the manner directed by our statues. I believe that this is what Chief Justice Rugg meant when he referred to "competent" individuals in the community.

In this memorandum, it would be impossible to exhaust all of the inherent and statutory powers vested in the Constable. It was my purpose to survey the Powers of Constables with the objective of demonstrating that the office is of extremely high significance in the eyes of the law.

APPOINTMENT

There is no doubt that a Constable is a municipal officer. G.L.c.41,section 1, provides for the election or appointment of Town Officers. It reads in part:

"Every town at its annual meeting shall in every year when the term of any incumbent expires, and except when other provision is made by law, choose by ballot from its registered voters the following Town Officers for the following terms of office..................one or more Constables for a term of three years, unless the town by vote provides that they should be appointed."

The appointive power appears to be now in the Board of Selectmen, G.L.c.41,section 91A provides:

"The selectmen in any town may from time to time appoint for terms not exceeding three years, as many constables as they deem necessary."

A Constable who is to serve civil process must give a bond to the Town, with sureties approved by the selectmen. Prudence would seem to require that this be the maximum amount required by statue, which is five thousand dollars. Since service by un-bonded constables is void, the Board might consider that all appointments be conditioned upon the Constable obtaining bond within reasonable time of appointment.

In closing, as a point of human interest, even the colloquial term COP had its origin in the activities surrounding Constable. It means " Constable on Patrol.".

Frank D. Rodick, Town Counsel

Revisions by the webmaster
 
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