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Saw two Loomis security guards (or armored car drivers) open carrying at the mall.
- Thread starter PaulD
- Start date
If I were stuck in a position where the bad guys wanted the money, hey go ahead take it, it ain't mine, and it is company policy, but if you shoot at me while taking the money, the money I have offered to give you with out a fight, then I am going to give you about $10 in scrap copper in your ass. The gun on my hip is not there to protect the money, it is to protect my life and the life of my partner should I have one. Simple math.
WELL SAID DOC
The downside of polymer frames...
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Hey if it works for you...
Then again, the para singles fare considerably better than the doubles do, most of the time, in terms of reliability. It also seems that their QC comes and goes in waves. You probably got a gun that was made on a monday morning at 10 am, when the workers in the factory were still in a good mood from the weekend. -Mike
Huh? You've completely lost me.
Yes, they are security guards. Armed security guards. They wear uniforms and open carry. Same here as anywhere else.
Sworn yes..."officers" well thats debatable... however unlike most LE "groups" there tends to be a relationship between "professiional appearence" and "whackerism" in constables. IE if you see a constable in marked "cruiser" in a full uniform w/ duty belt you can expect a high degree "wackerism" in that individual...
W
wolf223
Sworn yes..."officers" well thats debatable... however unlike most LE "groups" there tends to be a relationship between "professiional appearence" and "whackerism" in constables. IE if you see a constable in marked "cruiser" in a full uniform w/ duty belt you can expect a high degree "wackerism" in that individual...
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
... like cool shades, a badge and an embroidered windbreaker??? if so, how do i enroll? ![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
right next to my CCW badge and matching reflective strap of course
That is a problem with many LEOs. They show up once a year to qualify and that is it. This is your lifeline, you should be VERY competent in your training and equipment. Now, it doesn't mean they need to be a gun nut, just proficient. However, this does explain a statistic I recently saw.....11% of of police shootings result in the death of an innocent person, compared to only 2% among legal gun owners defending themselves/others (SOURCE: Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Clayton Cramer, David Kopel,
Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994)
That was well said Doc. However, if your life is in danger and you pull that Para, get ready to hear CLICK....then nothing! LOL Sorry man, but you'll never convince me Para is a good gun. You know back in the day when Ford made the Pintos.....some of them didn't blow up.
Sworn yes..."officers" well thats debatable... however unlike most LE "groups" there tends to be a relationship between "professiional appearence" and "whackerism" in constables. IE if you see a constable in marked "cruiser" in a full uniform w/ duty belt you can expect a high degree "wackerism" in that individual...
Makes me think of a paramedic I worked with......he somehow managed to get his "red lights" approval from the FD. So what did he do? Blew like over $10k to have the high-end fully concealed light packages put in....then changed all the bulbs to blue and white after the job. NOW THAT IS A WHACKER!!! Not to mention a criminal as well.
Not normally done in MA. I've done it exactly once in my own town, on a very hot day after serving an eviction notice and only inside a restaurant where the owner knows us very well (picked up my Wife right after serving the papers and she wanted Chinese food) as the light jacket was too hot inside the restaurant. Nobody blinked . . . dressed in civvies with badge and cuffs visible.
While waiting for my Wife getting an x-ray at New England Baptist Hospital, I saw a Constable walk by in the hall, in "uniform" (there is no formal uniform in MA but patches are available and you could certainly make a uniform up). I did a double-take on this sighting. No idea who it was (I know a number of Boston Constables, but since there were >400 of them when this happened . . .).
Most POs and chiefs would take a very dim view of us going around visibly armed or in uniform.
I think that it's safe to say that most LEOs in MA have little to no respect for Constables. In there defense:
- There is no formal training even available to Constables. Very few of us come from a LE background and have attended a police academy of any sort (most of academy training isn't really pertinent to the job as Constable, but some education is better than none.
- Many are yahoos and conduct themselves accordingly. [I've had some interesting discussions in large corporate offices about the behavior of other Constables that go there and actually have been asked why I behave differently (with a smile, polite and professional).]
- Many want no training at all. I've offered firearms training, education on MA gun law, etc. and been rebuffed at both statewide orgs. "Brownie" is an expert on edged weapons (check him out on bladeforums.com and his bio at http://www.protectmeepi.com/epi15.html) and he did a brief demo at one of these orgs and offered to train us for cheap money . . . only 2 of us had any interest.
- A small number of times I have had need to work with local POs (in a number of towns) as a Constable. Having worked as a PT PO for a number of years, I treat them with proper respect and get it back in any dealings that I've had with them.
Sworn yes..."officers" well thats debatable... however unlike most LE "groups" there tends to be a relationship between "professional appearance" and "whackerism" in constables. IE if you see a constable in marked "cruiser" in a full uniform w/ duty belt you can expect a high degree "wackerism" in that individual...
Never saw that in MA and don't want to either! When you have no training, most have no knowledge of proper LE procedures (or behavior), and most appointments are strictly political (who do you know), you get a random hodge-podge. Personally, I'd love to see a mandatory academy for Constables with In Service Training annually. I almost got stoned to death when I suggested it at one statewide Constables org and subsequently quit that org for ~2 years (just rejoined).
Another chucklehead story:
Someone I vaguely recall from HS was a PO in a South Shore town for many years. He decked out his POVs with concealed light package, radio, antennas, etc. and used to cruise around town off-duty, stopping people, chasing them down, etc. The stories I heard were from other officers in the same town and really made you shake your head. He's now retired but I have no idea if he's still "playing cop" or gave it up.
What does a Constable actually do in MA? I've heard in other parts of the country they do more, but never heard specifically what is done here.
RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
I knew two guys that were the same way. Both absolute KOOKS who somehow passed the written exams, oral boards and academy without getting weeded out. Must have been really difficult to keep that inner Barney Fife in check for all that time. One ran roughshod around Boxford until he got canned. About 10 years ago, he ended up killing his best friend in a hunting "accident" in NH (the moron fired at a sound in the bushes). The other Rambo ended up getting on in Lawrence and even got promoted to the rank of sergeant and department armorer articifer. He was caught by NH authorities caching firearms, tens of thousands of rounds of ammo, bomb-disposal kits and tear gas launchers that he stole from the Lawrence Police armory. Chief Romero fired him, yanked his LTC and confiscated dozens of personally-owned guns from his Lawrence home. He had only two years to go to get his 20 on the force and now he is nothing more than a convicted felon. No shortage of yahoos, that's for sure!
I did armored car for almost 3 years for Dunbar Armored. I always said we were like UPS except with guns and bags of cash. Nothing more to that job than driving a route to deliver or pick up money. I never went anywhere in uniform if I didn't have to. I carried a glock 23 and wore a vest under my uniform. Good people, lousy paying job.
We had this one mall ninja type who was a constable out of Haverhill I think. He got fired from Brinks and ended up with us at Dunbar. He carred handcuffs on his duty belt and wore his constable badge. Two huge things you didn't do there. Our supervisor gave him one warning to take the crap off which he did eventually. Couple weeks later we find out a lot of money is missing from a pick up he made. Moron stole 10K and went and bought an AR10 with it. FBI finally caught him.
We had this one mall ninja type who was a constable out of Haverhill I think. He got fired from Brinks and ended up with us at Dunbar. He carred handcuffs on his duty belt and wore his constable badge. Two huge things you didn't do there. Our supervisor gave him one warning to take the crap off which he did eventually. Couple weeks later we find out a lot of money is missing from a pick up he made. Moron stole 10K and went and bought an AR10 with it. FBI finally caught him.
Guys like that can be dangerous. I remember hearing stories from my grandfather about a guy that worked in his department (Waltham) they used to call "Two Gun Tommy". He used to wear one on each side "cowboy style". Like harassing people, making them feel small, intimidating people with his pearl handled revolvers. However, when he was with my grandfather one night and they got jumped by 5 guys, good ol' "Two Gun Tommy" took off and left my grandfather alone in the alley with the 5 guys. Now he managed to subdue and arrest four of them, but he took a good beating in the process. WHich my grandfather was happy to pass along to Tommy. After that nobody wanted to be his partner and he got stuck on the desk. Guys like that are trying to compensate for something when there is no danger, but run like cowards when there is.
MGLs come from "old England" so they actually give Constables very broad powers by statute. However organized and paid police departments and unions have replaced most statutory functions of Constables (in MA) in reality.
examples:
- MGLs Ch. 90 S. 1 empowers Constables to enforce motor vehicle law. However, RMV controls citation books and will only give them to municipal and state police agencies. But no great loss since we get paid by clients (law firms or pro-see clients), we'd be going to court on our own nickle and not even get reimbursed for out time and expenses if we handed out citation.
- MGL Ch. 56 Sect. 57 – which states “. . . constables shall arrest without a warrant any person detected in the act of violating any provision of . . .“ the election laws. [You won't find a Constable working the polling places, unions have seen to it that only the PD does this detail.]
- MGL Ch. 41 Sect. 95 – “If a warrant is issued against a person for an alleged crime committed within any town, any constable thereof to whom the warrant is directed may apprehend him in any place in the commonwealth.”
So, in reality what do Constables do?:
- Serve legal papers for lawyers, landlords and pro-see clients who pay us directly.
- Perform evictions.
- Some will seize property with a court order and auction it off for the benefit of the winner of a lawsuit.
- Some will serve capiases (arrest warrants) issued by the court. These are usually for "contempt of court" in small claims cases. Others are deadbeat dads that the court has ordered arrested and brought before the court for non-payment of support decrees.
Police Officers are forbidden from serving civil process (including making civil arrests as noted above) by MGLs. The statute that empowers police officers MGLs Ch. 41 S. 98 starts as follows:
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98.htm
So, when POs state that Constables aren't LEOs, what would that make a PO??
![[devil]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/015.gif "Devil [devil]")
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MGLs come from "old England" so they actually give Constables very broad powers by statute. However organized and paid police departments and unions have replaced most statutory functions of Constables (in MA) in reality.
examples:
- MGLs Ch. 90 S. 1 empowers Constables to enforce motor vehicle law. However, RMV controls citation books and will only give them to municipal and state police agencies. But no great loss since we get paid by clients (law firms or pro-see clients), we'd be going to court on our own nickle and not even get reimbursed for out time and expenses if we handed out citation.
- MGL Ch. 56 Sect. 57 – which states “. . . constables shall arrest without a warrant any person detected in the act of violating any provision of . . .“ the election laws. [You won't find a Constable working the polling places, unions have seen to it that only the PD does this detail.]
- MGL Ch. 41 Sect. 95 – “If a warrant is issued against a person for an alleged crime committed within any town, any constable thereof to whom the warrant is directed may apprehend him in any place in the commonwealth.”
So, in reality what do Constables do:
- Serve legal papers for lawyers, landlords and pro-see clients who pay us directly.
- Perform evictions.
- Some will seize property with a court order and auction it off for the benefit of the winner of a lawsuit.
- Some will serve capiases (arrest warrants) issued by the court. These are usually for "contempt of court" in small claims cases. Others are deadbeat dads that the court has ordered arrested and brought before the court for non-payment of support decrees.
Police Officers are forbidden from serving civil process (including making civil arrests as noted above) by MGLs. The statute that empowers police officers MGLs Ch. 41 S. 98 starts as follows:
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98.htm
So, when POs state that Constables aren't LEOs, what would that make a PO??
So it seems like it was a decent job until the unions screwed it all up?
Yes, but chiefs like total control and Constables do NOT work for chiefs. They don't like any other LEOs operating in "their territory"!! And as I stated above, many are indeed yahoos . . . which does nothing to help those of us who act as professionals and understand our boundaries.
So is this something you applied for, or were appopinted to? Just curious how someone gets steered into that line of work.
In 99% of the cities/towns that do it by appointment, it is highly political. If you don't know someone important they will likely ignore any inquiry for such an appointment. A former selectman in my town bragged to me that they got an average of 40 inquiries for appointment/year and ignored ALL of them (not even a form-letter response)!
In some cities/towns they do it by election. Just a different kind of beauty contest. This means that LOTS of people in that community have to know you.
Once appointed and sworn in, you must buy a bond and present it to the city/town. Then you get to spend more money to set yourself up as a business. And any work you do in the city/town you are appointed in . . . you must pay the city/town 25% of your service fees (before you pay taxes on it). Each city/town has a different spin on this too . . . at least one demands 25% of the mileage/postage fee you charge, another demands the money even if the client never pays you (I've had a few that ignored my bills . . . one current deadbeat is an extremely large/well-known real estate/property management firm that you see signs for all over the state). Romney implemented the 25% "Fee" along with the $100 (from $25) LTC fee increase.
Go Romney [sad2]
Not really understanding why they get a 25% fee. They aren't doing anything, supplying you with anything, or business networking. So why do it and let these thieves take your money?
I will start by adding in some info more relavent to the OP's post about armoured cars. One of the LE instructor classes I was at we also had a firearms instructor for one of the big name armored car companies in the class. He was very squared away, and what I gather is training depends on 3 things, minimum company standards, minimum standards for that "branch office", and minimum state standards (ie some states require certain "licensing" for guards). So you and your twin in some other state might have the exact same job and pay driving routes, but in MA you got hired off the street and all you needed was an LTC, but your twin might have needed to "qualify", taken some "class", ect to get the same job. I also learned from him every armoured car employee in DC is a "DC Special", not unlike Boston's required special police designation for certain security jobs...
I've seen at least 1 "uniformed" constable in MA, as well as one marked "cruiser" (no visable blues I will point out though). Both of which "scared" me by the level of whackerism they had achieved...
this is not ment as an insult to any "legit" constable, however I wouldn't say the "unions" are the what put them down. I'd say the demise came more as a result of obsolesence of the possition and increased standards/professionalism of the "actual police force" By that I mean three things(much of which LenS alluded to in his detailed description) 1. Constables aren't really a "job" so much as appointment (at least I don't know of any towns with constables on the payroll, 2. About the only "requirement" to be a constable is "know a selectman" (yes politics play in to PD hires too, but not to the degree here) 3. training...there is none. So you combine all that and while certainly statutely (is that a word) constables can do "a lot" most municipalities would rather have thier trained "professional" police officers take care of all things criminal, and leave the civil enforcement to the constables. Basicly government pays the police to enforce the governments laws, and appoints "some guys" to carry out the needs of civil judgements.
Anyone with an LTC can openly carry in MA. The difference is that people don't usually call the cops on guys in security guard uniforms. No, I'm not kidding. That is the only real difference.
If you made up a nice looking uniform that said "Heywood Jablome Armored Services" with an eagle crest badge, people would ignore you, for the most part. "Oh, security guard.... gun is scary but since he has a shiny nametag and crest im not going to call the cops on him" that's the moonbat thought process, at least.
-Mike
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RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
The local LEOs might hassle you, though. Years ago, when I worked security at a federal facility, the government had branch facilities in Methuen and Wilmington to store records. These were two-man 24/7 posts. I heard that one of the guys was hassled severely by two Methuen cops when he drove across the street to the Papa Gino's at the (long since defunct) Methuen Mall. Apparenty, the sheeple didn't call the cops, but they happened to be in the area and saw one of our guys in uniform and armed (we all had to be armed on duty), carrying his pizza to the car. They stopped him, took his gun/ammo and made him stand outside their vehicle in the rain as they read the information off his LTC into their radio and did a background check on him. His license was issued through Haverhill, so he was outside for a while before they decided that the license was valid. By then, he was late returning from lunch and his pizza was cold and soggy. When word got back to our superiors, we were told to leave the guns inside the facility before going outside at lunch.
