SA/DA guns that can be carried "cocked and locked"

[terraformer]

ask terraformer. he's a PK 380 fanboy. prior to that, he also was seen with a PPK. i have to wonder why i even like the guy. he has two of the guns i hate the most.

 

[fbirdquik6]

note / edit: i never trusted a hammer block. such as the 92FS, PPK / PPK-S ect..

i still ride the hammer down.

1. lock and clear (unload)
2. put on safe
3. re insert mag and stow.

at the range i'll test it a few times, or do it while the gun is "hot".... but never at home. that's just me though.

IMO - if it's not designed to be carried locked and cocked, DONT

what are your main concerns? trigger pull? her accuracy vs. trigger pull?

i would personally be very blunt about this...

either:
a. suck it up, get some range time and we'll find something you're 100% comfortable with
b. you ain't carrying anything... especially anything with "papers" in MY name...

we have it so bad in this state. [sad2]

She has plenty of range time and she has become a very good shot with natural safety instincts. The main issue is that the defensive firearms I own are the biggest bang in the smallest and lightest package, which are NOT female friendly. She has small hands and has trouble with heavy triggers or long DA pulls. So the firearm for her needs to fit the limitations I stated in the OP.

 

[Another_David]

The HKs are probably the best option. Most of the Beretta pocket pistols are designed to be carried cocked and locked but they are small calibers: .22, .25, .32. Also I think the Beretta 84 and 85 have a decocker but can be carried cocked and locked like the HKs.

 

[Beansie_Time]

The CZ82 safety is not reliable IMHO. I've seen it first hand, and it has been documented out there on the interwebs.

Rich

Not reliable as in not remaining engaged, or in remaining engaged but failing to stop the hammer from falling?
I sold mine a while back, and when I did carry it it was always hammer down anyhow, but just wondering.

 

[richc]

She has plenty of range time and she has become a very good shot with natural safety instincts. The main issue is that the defensive firearms I own are the biggest bang in the smallest and lightest package, which are NOT female friendly. She has small hands and has trouble with heavy triggers or long DA pulls. So the firearm for her needs to fit the limitations I stated in the OP.

I love the Sig 232. It is a .380 DA/SA handgun, single stack with a very reasonable grip size. It is also a very natural shooter for me.

 

[piman]

...
as for your critera: why not a Sig 239 in 9mm? why would you punish her with a .40?

+1 for the 239 in 9mm. You can get one with short trigger for a better fit. Though at that cost, I'd possibly at least look at a 1911 in 9mm - I just love my Kimber Aegis Ultra...

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[PaulD]

FN's latest pistols probably also qualify. They're DA/SA and have a thumb safety (and decocker I think) much like HK.

 

[fbirdquik6]

I love the Sig 232. It is a .380 DA/SA handgun, single stack with a very reasonable grip size. It is also a very natural shooter for me.

I forgot about the 232, can it be carried in SA with the safety engaged?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There's some odd Beretta 92 variation that does this, but what exact model, I do not know.

Close....

You are thinking of the Taurus PT92 - a Beretta like gun built on former Beretta machinery now in Brazil.

 

[economist]

can anyone help me come up with a list of SA/DA firearms, which dont have a safety decocker. ...

I forgot about the 232, can it be carried in SA with the safety engaged?

No, the 232 has a decocker, which you say you want to avoid, and no manual safety.

 

[TheRoland]

Purse carry blows for safety no matter what the gun - too much crap moving around... Either get a purse with a compartment or a pocket-carry holster - both of which are problematic for draw, but there you go...

This. There is more than one documented case of jostling in a purse leading to discharges. One major internet anti is fond of posting the stories as evidence that all CCW is dangerous.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The EAA Witness fits the bill too. It's a CZ clone, but they're usually less money and have more caliber choices.

 

[jasons]

SA/DA guns that can be carried "cocked and locked"

Just out of curiosity, why? I mean if you're going to carry cocked and locked you don't really need DA, and if you want to carry in DA mode you don't really need an external safety.

 

[terraformer]

Just out of curiosity, why? I mean if you're going to carry cocked and locked you don't really need DA, and if you want to carry in DA mode you don't really need an external safety.

Newbies may like the plethora of options. I got from the thread this is for a female who is new to shooting and carrying. The presence of a positive safety for in purse carry has it's advantages.

 

[jasons]

Newbies may like the plethora of options. I got from the thread this is for a female who is new to shooting and carrying. The presence of a positive safety for in purse carry has it's advantages.

Yeah, I read that after. Before even talking about the action I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that carrying any gun inside a purse filled with typical purse junk is a really bad idea. The lipstick bumps into the safety and disengages it (or she forgets to engage it in the first place) and now you have that nice crisp 3 lb SA trigger floating around unprotected....

They make purses with special holsters built in that will keep the gun stable and safe. If you MUST use off body carry at least use the proper gear.

As for the action - honestly a revolver would be my first choice. For a small purse something like a 640 (small, not too light, and they even make a "Lady Smith" version .) A DAO auto with a reasonable trigger weight (6 to 8 lbs or so) and no external safety would be my second. You're in a free state so there are plenty of choices. Keep it simple, keep it safe, and then build on that foundation.

 

[fbirdquik6]

Yeah, I read that after. Before even talking about the action I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that carrying any gun inside a purse filled with typical purse junk is a really bad idea. The lipstick bumps into the safety and disengages it (or she forgets to engage it in the first place) and now you have that nice crisp 3 lb SA trigger floating around unprotected....

They make purses with special holsters built in that will keep the gun stable and safe. If you MUST use off body carry at least use the proper gear.

As for the action - honestly a revolver would be my first choice. For a small purse something like a 640 (small, not too light, and they even make a "Lady Smith" version .) A DAO auto with a reasonable trigger weight (6 to 8 lbs or so) and no external safety would be my second. You're in a free state so there are plenty of choices. Keep it simple, keep it safe, and then build on that foundation.

The long trigger pull of revolvers just physically don't work for her, she can get the cylinder to turn, but just doesnt have enough "pull" left to get the trigger to break. Also the recoil of concealable sized revolvers, is just too much for her comfort (trust me, shes tried about 8 of mine).

 

[jasons]

The long trigger pull of revolvers just physically don't work for her, she can get the cylinder to turn, but just doesnt have enough "pull" left to get the trigger to break. Also the recoil of concealable sized revolvers, is just too much for her comfort (trust me, shes tried about 8 of mine).

Well if the only option really is something cocked and locked, at least get her a purse with a proper holster built in. (Though I honestly don't see how she'd be able to handle racking a slide if she can't handle pulling a 6 lb trigger one inch.)

One last comment and I'll shut up. I swear I'm not trying to be a prick, but maybe something like this would be better for her:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/product.php?xProd=441

My wife is also physically uncomfortable operating most carry sized guns and honestly I'm not sure that she'd mentally be able to pull the trigger on someone if the time came anyway. With that said I have no doubt whatsoever that she'd use OC with little or no hesitation if she needed to. Honestly for my wife OC is probably better than a gun in a lot of ways. Everyone is different.

 

[economist]

The answer is always a Glock 19, but people just take time getting there.

 

[cekim]

The answer is always a Glock 19, but people just take time getting there.

Amen...

 

[fbirdquik6]

Well if the only option really is something cocked and locked, at least get her a purse with a proper holster built in. (Though I honestly don't see how she'd be able to handle racking a slide if she can't handle pulling a 6 lb trigger one inch.)

One last comment and I'll shut up. I swear I'm not trying to be a prick, but maybe something like this would be better for her:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/product.php?xProd=441

My wife is also physically uncomfortable operating most carry sized guns and honestly I'm not sure that she'd mentally be able to pull the trigger on someone if the time came anyway. With that said I have no doubt whatsoever that she'd use OC with little or no hesitation if she needed to. Honestly for my wife OC is probably better than a gun in a lot of ways. Everyone is different.

A) She has Pepper Spray
B) Those Kimber Sprays arn't a very high quality spray (Stick with Sabre Red or FOX Labs)
C) Spraying liquid at a zombie target, is not alot of fun at the range

A she has shot a Glock 19 and has done well, given the reasonable length of their D/A trigger pull, If they were just a bit thinner, they would be perfect. I purposely didnt want to mention this earlier, to avoid 60 people posting "Glock!" and never hearing about what else is out there that I havent though of.

 

[drgrant]

A she has shot a Glock 19 and has done well, given the reasonable length of their D/A trigger pull, If they were just a bit thinner, they would be perfect.

Then what's the problem???? Have her try out a G26.

The only guns thinner than 9mm/.40 Glocks are Kahrs. Even the springfield EMP I mentioned earlier is probably not much thinner than a typical Glock is.

It almost sounds like you have plastic-gun itis.

It doesn't have to be a Glock, either, there's always the M+P 9c.

-Mike

 

[dcmdon]

A she has shot a Glock 19 and has done well, given the reasonable length of their D/A trigger pull, If they were just a bit thinner, they would be perfect. .

I don't mean to do exactly what you were trying to avoid, but I was in a similar situation. I loved my Glocks, I shot them well in IDPA , but I never carried even a 26 because it was too fat.

The Kahrs work just like thin Glocks. I'd suggest a P9 if she likes her 19. Give it a try, you might be surprised.

With all that said, if she can handle recoil, there is a single stack Glock .45 , I can't remember the model number, but its the thinnest glock made.

 

[M1911]

I've got a Kahr K9 (also a K40, MK9, and PM9). If you want to try them out, just send me a PM.

 

[wolf223]

The answer is always a Glock 19, but people just take time getting there.

indeed.

 

[fbirdquik6]

I've got a Kahr K9 (also a K40, MK9, and PM9). If you want to try them out, just send me a PM.

Awesome! It would be great to try out the K9 and MK9, Ive been leaning toward those, but havent been able to find one to try before I buy.

I might just take you up on that sometime after the holidays.

Thanks

 

[fbirdquik6]

Then what's the problem???? Have her try out a G26.

The only guns thinner than 9mm/.40 Glocks are Kahrs. Even the springfield EMP I mentioned earlier is probably not much thinner than a typical Glock is.

It almost sounds like you have plastic-gun itis.

It doesn't have to be a Glock, either, there's always the M+P 9c.

-Mike

No, I have quite a few polymer guns including Glocks and an M&P full size and compact but they are all in .40s&w. She shoots them all well, but greatly prefers the lesser recoil of 9mm and finds the grip of my Glock 22 to be one of her least favorites. I'd also like to get something different for her too, so the steel framed Kahrs and CZ 9mm are looking pretty good right now. I'd also like her to try a 4th gen Glock 19, but that would probably have to be a Buy before you Try, type deal, as they are pretty rare around these parts.

 

[JoeT]

how about the S&W bodyguard ? I don't know a lot about them, only seeing them a couple times. But it's DAO, really thin and has a safety, and a laser built in.

Granted it's a .380, but with proper ammo choice. . . .






edit: nevermind, I went back and read you werr looking for sa\da. . . not dao

 

[X JBM X]

Then what's the problem???? Have her try out a G26.

The only guns thinner than 9mm/.40 Glocks are Kahrs. Even the springfield EMP I mentioned earlier is probably not much thinner than a typical Glock is.

It almost sounds like you have plastic-gun itis.

It doesn't have to be a Glock, either, there's always the M+P 9c.

-Mike

Might be hard to get in MA, but Taurus has another model called the PT709 Slim. My old man's got one, really nice and thin 9mm. I don't know I've seen a thinner one..

 

[PaulD]

Then what's the problem???? Have her try out a G26.

The only guns thinner than 9mm/.40 Glocks are Kahrs. Even the springfield EMP I mentioned earlier is probably not much thinner than a typical Glock is.

It almost sounds like you have plastic-gun itis.

It doesn't have to be a Glock, either, there's always the M+P 9c.

-Mike

There's the Walther PPS also, but I think it says something that it's universally forgotten about.

 

[cekim]

There's the Walther PPS also, but I think it says something that it's universally forgotten about.

I'd take the kahr before the M&P 9c...

Thinner and frankly handles same or better... Shooting the Kahr felt a lot like shooting a G19.