S.2572: How should we hold cops accountable?

[Mark from MA]

So moron Massachusetts voters elect democrats year after year after year. Almost every single elected politician in your state is a Democrat and it's been that way for decades. So obviously the majority of your citizens want it that way.
Then the moron democrats enact moronic gun laws, just like they said they would when they were campaigning. But the fault doesn't lie with the moronic Massachusetts voters, it's your police officers fault because an organization that represents their chiefs couldn't stop it?
As far as I'm concerned Mass got exactly what Mass voted for. You want to blame someone, look in the mirror.

I believe I said this before.....Voters are 100% to blame. Not the Cops.

No one is blaming rank and file.....but they absolutely should have to live under the laws that were voted for.
They are citizens of this fxcking state and are NOT special.

MACOPA flips because there is a carve out for law enforcement in the new bill......that so much reeks of laws for me and not for thee...it smells like shit.
They are supposed to be constitutional officers that help us, obviously they are just there for the pols, and themselves.

Thats OK...we can do that too next time ACAB and Defund the Police come around.

And whether YOU care about them or not, MCOPA is the group that is the face of public safety in MA unfortunately.

If the Patrol Officers union wants to come out and help us.....well then that would be great, but the silence is deafening.

 

[Dadstoys]

If the MACOPA pushed back on this, either on its own or because of PD pressure, it would definitely have an impact. It’s difficult for politicians and the media to push the “public safety” narrative when something is opposed by - public safety.

It might not have stopped the Senate version altogether but it would have provided ammunition for an organized resistance.

Smart people realize this.

Yup, Creem was crowing today that the bill had the approval of L.E.

 

[Dadstoys]

I think some people believe that police are a collective force and that their views matter.
As a guy who wore a uniform for over 20 years I would disagree. Most of my colleagues were completely uninterested in politics. We could barely get enough guys to show up for a union meeting let alone voice their political opinions.

They were very interested when it looked like they were going to have to follow the same rules as everyone else.

 

[FalArAk]

So moron Massachusetts voters elect democrats year after year after year. Almost every single elected politician in your state is a Democrat and it's been that way for decades. So obviously the majority of your citizens want it that way.
Then the moron democrats enact moronic gun laws, just like they said they would when they were campaigning. But the fault doesn't lie with the moronic Massachusetts voters, it's your police officers fault because an organization that represents their chiefs couldn't stop it?
As far as I'm concerned Mass got exactly what Mass voted for. You want to blame someone, look in the mirror.

So your stance is that it is NOT the police officers fault that they follow all the orders of their masters no matter how wrong, it's the voters fault for electing their masters?

 

[VTski4x4]

So your stance is that it is NOT the police officers fault that they follow all the orders of their masters no matter how wrong, it's the voters fault for electing their masters?

Sounds awfully similar to the guards at a certain type of camp.....

 

[Waher]

SAF/FPC needs to establish case law that these carve outs are unconstitutional. The government is literally granting title of Knighthood (nobility) and establishing a system of peerage both of which are not constitutional outright on top of violating the 14th amendment.

 

[kevin9]

FYI Here's MCOPA's elected? Executive Board and paid Staff in case one wants to know who to contact.

 

[Grendizer138]

So your stance is that it is NOT the police officers fault that they follow all the orders of their masters no matter how wrong, it's the voters fault for electing their masters?

It’s actually even dumber than that. He’s saying that we’re responsible for politicians we didn’t vote for; but cops aren’t responsible for how their chiefs vote.

 

[FalArAk]

It’s actually even dumber than that. He’s saying that we’re responsible for politicians we didn’t vote for; but cops aren’t responsible for how their chiefs vote.

Sure seems like it.

And also cops are basically brainless bags of flesh without a conscience just following orders.

Oh well, it is what it is.

Get your papers in order

 

[s&w3913]

You can find that amusing if you want. At some level....here in MA...it is and I totally agree with your assessment.

The reality is....in plenty of states where legislators come out with unconstitutional laws. Lots of Sheriffs stand up and say they won't enforce it. Happened in a lot of states.

So.....shit on cops all you want. But I will have those guys back all day long if they have mine.

When I open carry some of my 3rd gens or Beretta 92. Some cops talk to me either they are old enough to remember the 3rd gen or grandpa had one. Outside of major NC cities most counties and areas are “2nd amendment sanctuaries”. Except for stupid Guilford county and Forsyth county.

Up in Massachusetts everyone acts all strange I owned guns and carried daily.

a**h*** cops in gun shops in MA snickering they got the Sig p365 stupid looking SAS.
With 12 round magazines. So they can better mag dump the neighborhood.

The dudley police chief the former one is also a an asshat. I used to like the guy. He was pro red flag. Even though the chief can pull an LTC all though moot. Most cases say domestic violence or a felony case end up at the district court and the judge pulls the guns anyways. This chief was the former MACOP president. I saw him at park and shop and was nice until I said hey nice red flag laws huh.

I have learned a huge life lesson since turning 40 people simply don’t care if it doesn’t affect them directly.

 

[Mark from MA]

They were very interested when it looked like they were going to have to follow the same rules as everyone else.

Dude.....

MCOPA 's email and phone would be burning from police union calls and emails from officers from ALL of the 351 towns and cities if MCOPA gave the thumbs up without a carve out.

 

[not new guy]

Somebody on here from Agawam must know Eric Gillis personally. Anyone?

 

[dgrafton]

So your stance is that it is NOT the police officers fault that they follow all the orders of their masters no matter how wrong, it's the voters fault for electing their masters?

Sorry, just following orders…

 

[Mark from MA]

Sorry, just following orders…

Captain Obvious enters the chat.

The question remains would you follow orders if you had to follow the laws as written?

My guess…. police unions crying would enter the chat.

 

[jkelly1229]

Is this for a for real comment? It’s pretty dumb.

Ma cops are some of the highest paid in the country

They aren't bucking the system

 

[dgrafton]

Yet they seem to love carve outs.......go figure.

The reality is it would be a token move....but a move towards all dealers getting on the same page and unifying, which would be productive.

In reality it wouldn't matter squat....because the departments would just go to another state and get them or some other supplier. The fun would come in when other FFL's out of state that won't sell standard mags to MA shut them down as well.

I know.....a great version of utopia....never happen...but if they had to run around and feel our pain.......it would be fantastic.

Dealers not selling full capacity magazines to cops is a moot point. I don’t need to expand on that, iykyk.

Not selling them guns that the peons can’t buy may have an effect, as would clubs not allowing range time.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Dealers not selling full capacity magazines to cops is a moot point. I don’t need to expand on that, iykyk.

Not selling them guns that the peons can’t buy may have an effect, as would clubs not allowing range time.

Most cops aren't "gun people", they don't personally own any or many guns. So shutting off guns to cops will only piss off the small minority who are "gun people", not a significant impact.

Shutting off club access would be painful to PDs as it would limit their ability to qualify officers annually without large increases in cost (OT, travel to distant police ranges, etc.). This is a good way to piss off the PD leadership. It was something that I advocated as legislative chairman of Sharon F&G many years ago. It was also something that the Braintree R&P E-Board did also many years ago.

 

[dgrafton]

Most cops aren't "gun people", they don't personally own any or many guns. So shutting off guns to cops will only piss off the small minority who are "gun people", not a significant impact.

Shutting off club access would be painful to PDs as it would limit their ability to qualify officers annually without large increases in cost (OT, travel to distant police ranges, etc.). This is a good way to piss off the PD leadership. It was something that I advocated as legislative chairman of Sharon F&G many years ago. It was also something that the Braintree R&P E-Board did also many years ago.

I agree. The original post referred to selling mags for duty use, not personal use. I’m sure they would have no problem getting mags for duty use if needed.

I would propose my clubs restrict pd use, but unfortunately I am not part of the cliquey culture at the clubs and constantly get accused of stirring the pot. Fudds will be fudds

 

[Mark from MA]

I agree. The original post referred to selling mags for duty use, not personal use. I’m sure they would have no problem getting mags for duty use if needed.

I would propose my clubs restrict pd use, but unfortunately I am not part of the cliquey culture at the clubs and constantly get accused of stirring the pot. Fudds will be fudds

I brought this across my club and some members said we don't want to start a war with the police.

I said lets put this in context...and this is what is suggested for any further police training.

A) MCOPA is not "the cops"...they are "the chiefs" group.
B) They have ALWAYS voted for gun control since I've lived here my 54 years. Every time.
C) That would and should make them an anti gun group in our eyes.
D) Does this club allow anti gun affiliated group activities on its property? or not?

Cut ties with MCOPA, or change their stance.........and your welcome to use the property any time for training, we may or may not allow certain weapons/magazines during that training if they deemed illegal in MA.

Individual Members, during regular range shooting, that is not part of a training....... can use whatever they want to use for weapons and magazines.

This is the suggestion going forward.....we currently have no recognized training so the whole thing is moot...but if we are asked.

 

[kimber le]

Maybe we should get a ballot petition going to stop all qualified immunity for politicians, judges ,and LEO !