S.2572: How should we hold cops accountable?

[DJBrad]

Oh....there's a Western MA MACOPA?

Awesome! They must be going against the bill right?

Im waiting for their public statement on it........

Remember how vociferously the central and western Ma chiefs outspoke against the House version? Hmmm……crickets now once the carve out was procured.

 

[Mark from MA]

If the MACOPA pushed back on this, either on its own or because of PD pressure, it would definitely have an impact. It’s difficult for politicians and the media to push the “public safety” narrative when something is opposed by - public safety.

It might not have stopped the Senate version altogether but it would have provided ammunition for an organized resistance.

Smart people realize this.

Simple really. When the people who are used as teeth of the law aren't going to bite.

You emasculate the politicians.

That would just be fxcking fantastic.

Will it ever happen here?? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say NEVER. Would love to be proved wrong on that one.

 

[Mark from MA]

Remember how vociferously the central and western Ma chiefs outspoke against the House version? Hmmm……crickets now once the carve out was procured.

Laws for me and not for thee.....

 

[Roadglide]

Until we can hold people who legislate and enforce unconstitutional/illegal laws personally liable, all of what we do is pissing into the wind.

 

[Mark from MA]

Let me think about this. On one hand we have corrupt public government trying to reel in corrupt police departments.......

I'm not seeing a clear path of success here....

Jeez Harry......its like you've been here so long and history has repeated itself so many times, and the same groups have come out and trampled on your gun rights..... its made you negative.

Oh......

 

[kalash]

I find it amusing when people think that armed agents of the state who are hired to enforce government control and collect revenue for said government and who have the power to put you down like a rabid dog are somehow on their side. I don't know about you but when I'm driving and I see a cop car, I feel less safe, not more.

 

[Mark from MA]

Until we can hold people who legislate and enforce unconstitutional/illegal laws personally liable, all of what we do is pissing into the wind.

Is why I booked my flight to SC last night. Until we get someone with weight on their shoulders to back us, your statement is correct, and its a waste of time.

It aint GOAL either. There's a group, ya know...the one that enforces...... that can help......will they? or won't they?

 

[Grendizer138]

I find it amusing when people think that armed agents of the state who are hired to enforce government control and collect revenue for said government and who have the power to put you down like a rabid dog are somehow on their side. I don't know about you but when I'm driving and I see a cop car, I feel less safe, not more.

I’ve always kinda viewed cops as a necessary evil with a net positive impact on society. I’m not so sure anymore.

 

[Mark from MA]

I find it amusing when people think that armed agents of the state who are hired to enforce government control and collect revenue for said government and who have the power to put you down like a rabid dog are somehow on their side. I don't know about you but when I'm driving and I see a cop car, I feel less safe, not more.

You can find that amusing if you want. At some level....here in MA...it is and I totally agree with your assessment.

The reality is....in plenty of states where legislators come out with unconstitutional laws. Lots of Sheriffs stand up and say they won't enforce it. Happened in a lot of states.

So.....shit on cops all you want. But I will have those guys back all day long if they have mine.

 

[not new guy]

That's a big if. I've seen zero evidence of it so far.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Your state legislature is comprised of 236 Democrats and only 28 Republicans.
Your governor is a Democrat. Your attorney general is a Democrat. Your secretary of public safety is a democrat. Virtually every office with power is held by a Democrat.
Both of your US senators and all 9 of your US congressmen are Democrats.
Massachusetts leans so far left it gets lumped in with California, New York, and New Jersey in any conversation regarding guns.
What makes you think your police departments have any impact on anti-gun legislation?

And remember. Chiefs are political animals. Their jobs are directly controlled by the pols. If they want to keep their cushy jobs, they have to felate the pols.

The real question is how do the street cops feel about this?

With the replacement of huge numbers of cops with lower skill, lower experienced candidates, I now am not sure the left has created an obedient, liberty stomping bunch of brown shirt toadies.

 

[kalash]

You can find that amusing if you want. At some level....here in MA...it is.

The reality is....in plenty of states where legislators come out with unconstitutional laws. Lots of Sheriffs stand up and say they won't enforce it. So.....shit on cops all you want. But I will have those guys back all day long if they have mine.

Except in MA you can't even make the argument that they have your back. They're still trampling on your rights as we speak by backing this bill. They've still arrested people when the wind blew their jackets open and exposed their guns. Eurie Stamps is still dead from being shot in the head while on the ground by a Framingham cop. There's yet another state police corruption scandal unfolding right now. I can go on and on and on about MA cops specifically. When are you going to wake up and realize that they're not your friends? It would be a different story if there's was one "bad apple" in ten thousand but the number appears to be much, much higher than that.

 

[not new guy]

And remember. Chiefs are political animals. Their jobs are directly controlled by the pols. If they want to keep their cushy jobs, they have to felate the pols.

The real question is how do the street cops feel about this?

With the replacement of huge numbers of cops with lower skill, lower experienced candidates, I now am not sure the left has created an obedient, liberty stomping bunch of brown shirt toadies.

Chiefs are beholden to local political bodies, not state legislators. They have no excuse for supporting this bill.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Goal messed up. Had they spread some bottled water, snowblowers, and a few coffee machines around, maybe the chiefs would have supported us.

 

[Mark from MA]

Except in MA you can't even make the argument that they have your back. They're still trampling on your rights as we speak by backing this bill. They've still arrested people when the wind blew their jackets open and exposed their guns. Eurie Stamps is still dead from being shot in the head while on the ground by a Framingham cop. There's yet another state police corruption scandal unfolding right now. I can go on and on and on about MA cops specifically. When are you going to wake up and realize that they're not your friends? It would be a different story if there's was one "bad apple" in ten thousand but the number appears to be much, much higher than that.

Not disagreeing with you..... Most of my cop friends are embarrassed by their colleagues actions......still....it makes broad brushing kinda easy doesn't it. If they backed us....they'd get a big notch up the totem pole.

Think my old CLEO friend put it best when he said there's very little difference between a cop and a criminal, one is just behind bars and one is just in front of them.

 

[bigred460]

Goal messed up. Had they spread some bottled water, snowblowers, and a few coffee machines around, maybe the chiefs would have supported us.

Don't forget about new driveways.

 

[Mark from MA]

Goal messed up. Had they spread some bottled water, snowblowers, and a few coffee machines around, maybe the chiefs would have supported us.

He also used to say.... Firefighters are happy with 50% off....Cops want everything for free.

 

[Mark from MA]

Chiefs are beholden to local political bodies, not state legislators. They have no excuse for supporting this bill.

Which is kinda interesting in a pro gun town, with a pro gun Selectboard, isnt it.

 

[not new guy]

Which is kinda interesting in a pro gun town (if we truly have any??).

If chief stays a member of MCOPA......do the townspeople fire his ass?

Another thing that would never happen...but interesting and really how it should be.

I doubt these things get enough attention from town government, or anywhere for that matter. Outside of NES today is just another day.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

Force the left's hands. They want to defund the police let's get 100% behind it. If cops don't care about their oath then why the hell should we care about their jobs? Forget gun clubs, etc. Hits these guys where it will hurt the most, right in the wallet. Get rid of the overtime pay and start making cutbacks and salary cuts. It's easy to do at the local level.

 

[Admin]

MCOPA does not represent every MCOP in MA.

Absolutely vote to not let Official Police Department training occur at your gun club. No more "rules for thee but not for me"

Do not discourage individual officers from being members and being treated as any member should be within their respective clubs. They're people, not a profession.

edit: MCOPA gives invites to every police chief, and the town/city/municipality/campus pays for membership. Call or shoot an email to your Chief of Police and ask them if they are a member, and if they are, if they support S2572.

Option A says "Prevent PD's from using clubs" not individual officers.

 

[Admin]

Force the left's hands. They want to defund the police let's get 100% behind it. If cops don't care about their oath then why the hell should we care about their jobs? Forget gun clubs, etc. Hits these guys where it will hurt the most, right in the wallet. Get rid of the overtime pay and start making cutbacks and salary cuts. It's easy to do at the local level.

Sound idea, I doubt it will happen in MA

 

[rogersmithiii]

Force the left's hands. They want to defund the police let's get 100% behind it. If cops don't care about their oath then why the hell should we care about their jobs? Forget gun clubs, etc. Hits these guys where it will hurt the most, right in the wallet. Get rid of the overtime pay and start making cutbacks and salary cuts. It's easy to do at the local level.

No more detail work??

 

[VetteGirlMA]

I’ve always kinda viewed cops as a necessary evil with a net positive impact on society. I’m not so sure anymore.

I have been sure that they now represent a net negative for a long time now. I used to be a rah rah back the blue person too. Today? Let's just get these people out of their jobs or make it so uncomfortable and unprofitable that no one wants the job.

 

[Admin]

Massachusetts is literally the easiest state to leave.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

Sound idea, I doubt it will happen in MA

It has to be done at the city level. Force and compel our local leaders to have votes on it, stand in line with BLM if you have to. Let's just get these cops out of their jobs. They can learn to code, Joe Biden said so.

 

[Grendizer138]

I have been sure that they now represent a net negative for a long time now. I used to be a rah rah back the blue person too. Today? Let's just get these people out of their jobs or make it so uncomfortable and unprofitable that no one wants the job.

The problem is then we get even less qualified, worse cops, who are only there only because they have a hardon for exerting authority.

If the whole system can’t be blown up and rebuilt, you literally need to increase cops’ pay to attract normal people. Then we’d have to go after low-hanging fruit like ending quotas and qualified immunity.

But again, most people, especially boomercons, have the “if you’re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about” philosophy. Reform will be difficult until that stupid belief changes.

 

[n1oty]

MCOPA does not represent every MCOP in MA.

Absolutely vote to not let Official Police Department training occur at your gun club. No more "rules for thee but not for me"

Do not discourage individual officers from being members and being treated as any member should be within their respective clubs. They're people, not a profession.

edit: MCOPA gives invites to every police chief, and the town/city/municipality/campus pays for membership. Call or shoot an email to your Chief of Police and ask them if they are a member, and if they are, if they support S2572.

The only problem I have with your response is that I have NOT heard ANY dissent by the so-called rank-and-file officer's AGAINST MCOPA's position. The silence is deafening. They are as big a problem as the politician's that dreamed up this mess and the MCOPA turds that have turned their backs on normal citizens. By turning their backs collectively against normal citizens, they have effectively declared war on those very same citizens.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

The problem is then we get even less qualified, worse cops, who are only there only because they have a hardon for exerting authority.

If the whole system can’t be blown up and rebuilt, you literally need to increase cops’ pay to attract normal people. Then we’d have to go after low-hanging fruit like ending quotas and qualified immunity.

But again, most people, especially boomercons, have the “if you’re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about” philosophy. Reform will be difficult until that stupid belief changes.

No one is being replaced, eliminate the positions. No longer needed. Start with SWAT teams. These guys have proven time and time again that they don't do their homework and are happy terrorizing the citizenry even right here in deep blue Massachusetts.

We have the second amendment for a reason. People can carry knives, guns whatever for protection.

I'm not the enemy but if cops feel I am then the solution is they are not needed or viable.

 

[JGreen]

I may propose a bylaw/SOP change that would prohibit departments, while training or qualifying at the gun clubs I belong to, from using any guns or magazines that a LTC holder would be prohibited from using or possessing. What's good for the gander is good for the goose!