Rumors from a Smith & Wesson Rep: Guns, Cabelas and LL Bean

[weerwolv]

Hi all,

Wanted to left everyone know I was out at Ware Gun Shop yesterday...Smith and Wesson day there. I was actually coming back from visiting Cabelas for the first time in CT and decided to stop by and see what they had.

Needles to say I was talking to the Smith and Wesson rep who was there for a it and learned a few things that I didn't know but some of you may already.

Guns:
M&P 45 is almost ready for approval here. Should be before Christmas hopefully. In fact I put down a deposit on one as they had a what I think is a good price....$471 after rebate plus the two free mags.

Walther PPS: Best target on this for MA approval is next June. Walther/S&W do plan to make it available here but its not fast tracked for approval due to limited availability.

Cabelas:
Traffic was slow at Ware the day I was there and the S&W rep thought most likely it was because of Cabelas Grand Opening Celebrations (man that place is big!!!).

The Cabelas plan of course is to somewhat flood the North East with their stores over the next few years although not necessarily with super stores. The ME and NH stores are next but there are plans to bring at least two stores to MA..potentially tied to the Casino plan. The goal would be to make these Destination Sites to add to the Casino experience. Kind of like Bass Pro with the Patriots.

The other thing that is happening is Cabelas is now trying out smaller stores (60,000 sq footers...kind of like Dick's Sporting Good size I guess. They just opened one somewhere out West and they want to see how it does.

LL Bean:
LL Bean of course knows that Cabelas is going to hurt them here and they plan to open additional stores in the NE to compete. They would also like to add gun sales to these stores as an added department to keep hunters with them. The issue lies in the battle between the Gorman family and the board that runs LL Bean for the most part. The family wants to get back to their roots of outdoors and hunting but the board prefers to stay conservative and keep the guns out and remain a clothing store mostly except for the Freeport store. The family is working hard to change their minds so I guess its wait and see on this one.

-Chris

 

[jamz]

Silly board. Guns sell, it can't all be sweaters and candles.

 

[drgrant]

Walther PPS: Best target on this for MA approval is next June. Walther/S&W do plan to make it available here but its not fast tracked for approval due to limited availability.

Thanks for the info...

It's too bad, considering that they'd sell a shitload of them
here. They'd probably recover their testing costs inside of a
week. There currently are ZERO guns in that size class which
are "MA compliant". The only thing close to that is a pre98
Kahr MK9, and buyers are on those like chiuauas on porkchops.

Course S+W probably isn't in a rush- considering that the only
other thing that's "MA compliant" near that size class is a j-frame
revolver. So it's not exactly like they're missing out on
a sale.

-Mike

 

[matt]

LL Bean:
LL Bean of course knows that Cabelas is going to hurt them here and they plan to open additional stores in the NE to compete. They would also like to add gun sales to these stores as an added department to keep hunters with them. The issue lies in the battle between the Gorman family and the board that runs LL Bean for the most part. The family wants to get back to their roots of outdoors and hunting but the board prefers to stay conservative and keep the guns out and remain a clothing store mostly except for the Freeport store. The family is working hard to change their minds so I guess its wait and see on this one.

-Chris

Judging from the "Home goods" catalog I just recieved from Cabela's it won't be long before the go the way of LL Bean...

 

[jamz]

Judging from the "Home goods" catalog I just recieved from Cabela's it won't be long before the go the way of LL Bean...

Man, I hope not....

 

[Len-2A Training]

If Cabela's ties themselves to casinos in MA, many of us will be very old before there is a store here.

The politics of MA are such that we are probably AT LEAST 5 YEARS AWAY from a "decision" on allowing casinos in MA at all, and "where" in general terms. Then comes the permitting, under the table bribes/promised jobs/etc. BEFORE the building can begin. Seriously you are looking at 7-10 years before any casinos MIGHT be built in MA.

 

[jar]

Course S+W probably isn't in a rush- considering that the only
other thing that's "MA compliant" near that size class is a j-frame
revolver. So it's not exactly like they're missing out on
a sale.

I get the impression they're not in a rush because they're selling them as fast as they're importing them without MA. This judging from reading some threads on the Walther forum. People looking to buy the PPS generally had to find a distributor with one in stock and get their gun shop to order it. Once there are PPS's in display cases around the country waiting to be sold, then I'm sure they'll get going on MA testing.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

i wouldnt say there are no guns in the category of the pps. The ppk, almost identical in size, which the pps is basically replacing, you can get anywhere for around 400 bucks

 

[OAR348]

yeah, but the ppk sucks (well atleast the ones made by S&W), as does the round it fires.

 

[Arioch]

L L Bean has turned into a preppy catalog clothing store.

 

[Higgy]

There's a Cabelas in CT? Wow, this is news to me. I'll have to make a run down there and check it out. The funny thing is, I guess they figure they'll grab enough business even with the proposed Cabelas going in at Hooksett, NH?

I love Cabelas! I'll have to make a run to CT now.

 

[benster]

thanks for the PPS update.

 

[PaulD]

Instead of complaining about S&W taking too long, I think they should be commended. As far as I can see, they're doing the most of any manufacturer to make new guns available to MA residents. Kudos to them.

I bought one S&W product already and I plan on buying at least one more when finances allow.

 

[drgrant]

i wouldnt say there are no guns in the category of the pps. The ppk, almost identical in size, which the pps is basically replacing, you can get anywhere for around 400 bucks

I should have been a bit more specific, eg, "size vs power"
class.

The PPK is very heavy for the amount of stopping power you
don't get. My SW640 is only a little heavier (23 ozs) and I
can launch .357 magnum out of it if I want to.

The PPS would at least fire 9mm luger (which is an entire order of
magnitude better in terms of ballistics than .380) and it would
probably weigh less than the PPK.

The bottom line is a PPK fires a round that fails most entry level
ballistics testing protocols; the PPS would pass most of those
tests with a halfway decent JHP. The PPK might be a
fine gun (They are accurate, and most of them are reliable enough
to fire ball ammo and -some- JHPs) but there is no getting around
the fact that .380 ACP is pretty anemic for defensive purposes-
yeah, it'll probably "work" but when one looks at the totality of
circumstances there are a lot of cartridges that perform a LOT
better.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Instead of complaining about S&W taking too long, I think they should be commended. As far as I can see, they're doing the most of any manufacturer to make new guns available to MA residents. Kudos to them.

I bought one S&W product already and I plan on buying at least one more when finances allow.

It's more of a "whine" on my part than a "complaint". I agree
that if S+W had decided to not certify any of their guns, I think in
general MA gun owners would be -VERY- screwed, at least from a
standpoint of selection. S+W is what... like 50% of the roster?
Maybe they're not that much, but they're probably at least 25% of
the guns on the roster. And unlike ruger, most of the S+W
product on the roster can be purchased "right now" with minimal
restrictions.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I get the impression they're not in a rush because they're selling them as fast as they're importing them without MA. This judging from reading some threads on the Walther forum. People looking to buy the PPS generally had to find a distributor with one in stock and get their gun shop to order it. Once there are PPS's in display cases around the country waiting to be sold, then I'm sure they'll get going on MA testing.

Looking again, another "problem" is that the PPS appears to have a 6
lb pull... so S+W would have to "neuter" it to make it "AG reg
compliant" which means even more delays.

-Mike

 

[PaulD]

It's more of a "whine" on my part than a "complaint". I agree
that if S+W had decided to not certify any of their guns, I think in
general MA gun owners would be -VERY- screwed, at least from a
standpoint of selection. S+W is what... like 50% of the roster?
Maybe they're not that much, but they're probably at least 25% of
the guns on the roster. And unlike ruger, most of the S+W
product on the roster can be purchased "right now" with minimal
restrictions.

-Mike

I can certainly understand the frustration.

We can basically get S&W (including Walther), Sigs, Para, some Rugers and some Berettas but S&W seems to be the only one bringing in new models.

If what Four Seasons says about Springfield Armory is true, I wouldn't buy one even if they did start coming here. They stole the name of a MA institution yet won't sell any of their products here.

 

[codenamepaul]

I carried a PPK-S for years as a carry gun and still do for formal wear. As for the .380 not being enough? No, it's not perfect-that role belongs to the .40S&W Hydra-shok. But I would suggest 2 things make a carry gun. 1) Presence-if it ain't there, may as well be a Howitzer 2) reliability-first and foremost way more important than accuracy. That said-I would also suggest that 5 rounds of .380 in your face will make most anyone stop doing what it is that got them shot in the first place.

Do I feel undergunned with my PPK-S? No way.

Am I? Who knows?

 

[dbhn]

Thanks for the info...

It's too bad, considering that they'd sell a shitload of them
here. They'd probably recover their testing costs inside of a
week. There currently are ZERO guns in that size class which
are "MA compliant". The only thing close to that is a pre98
Kahr MK9, and buyers are on those like chiuauas on porkchops.

Course S+W probably isn't in a rush- considering that the only
other thing that's "MA compliant" near that size class is a j-frame
revolver. So it's not exactly like they're missing out on
a sale.

-Mike

The M&P compacts are not much bigger. Only about 1/2" longer and not any longer in the handle.

 

[drgrant]

The M&P compacts are not much bigger. Only about 1/2" longer and not any longer in the handle.

The M+Pc is considerably thicker than a PPS. An M+Pc is 1.2 in
a PPS is under ever so slightly over than an inch wide. The PPS
is almost a couple of ounces lighter, too.

It sounds like nitpicking but when you get into the subcompacts,
every .2 or .1 of whatever starts to matter, especially in the width
department. It seems very easy to write off the differences
unless you have both on the table in front of you.

-Mike

 

[rscalzo]

proposed Cabelas going in at Hook sett, NH?

That's not even close to a done deal. The last news heard was that the town has given the liaisons to enter into negations with Cabelas for the store. Nothing is signed or formalized yet. That location will be years before it's opened.

 

[M1911]

It sounds like nitpicking but when you get into the subcompacts,
every .2 or .1 of whatever starts to matter, especially in the width
department. It seems very easy to write off the differences
unless you have both on the table in front of you.
-Mike

+1

I find thickness very important for a pocket gun.

 

[PaulD]

Anyone have thoughts on safeties (or lack thereof) for a carry gun?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Anyone have thoughts on safeties (or lack thereof) for a carry gun?

Neither of the two guns I carry regularly (S&W 642 & G29) have manual safeties.

 

[M1911]

Anyone have thoughts on safeties (or lack thereof) for a carry gun?

I have and do carry guns with safeties. I have and do carry guns without safeties. Either will work with some training and practice. Either can be mishandled. Choice is yours.

 

[Chris]

Anyone have thoughts on safeties (or lack thereof) for a carry gun?

The most dangerous weapon ever concealed, the penis has no safety.

If god feels that a man should be able to control his equipment, who am I to argue?

 

[PaulD]

The most dangerous weapon ever concealed, the penis has no safety.

If god feels that a man should be able to control his equipment, who am I to argue?

I never get close enough to another man's penis for it to be a threat. However, this is MA and you're free to do so if you choose.

 

[depicts]

Where's the "GOTCHA" smilie?

 

[vellnueve]

I might have to grab a M&P 45 if they do make them available. I love my Burwell'ed M&P 40. But picking up additional M1 Carbines comes first.

 

[PaulD]

Where's the "GOTCHA" smilie?