Ruling in Palmer v. D.C handed down, Gura wins again

[cekim]

In the end, that probably wasn't such a bad thing.

I don't think this case would have been successful without all the cases that have come out in the past five years, particularly one right on point written by Richard Posner.

Sadly true. I think Heller had to sink-in, even amongst those Judges who agreed to understand just how profoundly jurisprudence had been perverted up to this point with the idea of a "militia right". This legal fiction had polluted virtually every decision made since 1934 in one way or another...

Much as I pointed out in another thread that we as gun owners fall into the programming traps and need to constantly step back and ask "why do we accept this, or that?", judges too have been coming around slowly and asking "wait a minute? If X, then naturaly Y follows..." and opening many cans of worms (in a good way).

 

[CockedAndLocked]

I have not read the ruling. Even though this will probably be appealed is it effective immediately or is there some delay before people can carry such as a permitting process? Or is it constitutional carry?

 

[Bfatz]

I hope mass law break(makers) are paying attention

 

[noddaduma]

I have not read the ruling. Even though this will probably be appealed is it effective immediately or is there some delay before people can carry such as a permitting process? Or is it constitutional carry?

IMO It almost reads as if DC has Constitutional Carry until they set up a Constitutionally-acceptable licensing process. But don't go packing in DC based on that opinion.

 

[browncoat]

IMO It almost reads as if DC has Constitutional Carry until they set up a Constitutionally-acceptable licensing process. But don't go packing in DC based on that opinion.

That's what it looks like to me as well.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Honey - pack up the pistols. We're going to DC for vacation. Just because we can and it will piss off a moon bat.

 

[Hoover]

IMO It almost reads as if DC has Constitutional Carry until they set up a Constitutionally-acceptable licensing process. But don't go packing in DC based on that opinion.

It's constitutional carry until a license process or a stay of the decision pending appeal. I assume they'll ask for a stay monday.

Honey - pack up the pistols. We're going to DC for vacation. Just because we can and it will piss off a moon bat.

Now would be the time for adam kokesh to carry. He wouldn't be in jail.

 

[CockedAndLocked]

Wow! This is cool!

Hopefully tons of people start carrying in D.C. today.

I went to D.C. as a tourist once about 25 years ago. I knew D.C. was on the news often regarding murders, but I never paid attention.

Without me asking during check-in the hotel concierge handed me a map and drew on it to show us places to avoid. It was a creepy feeling to learn what a shit hole that place is.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The chances of this decision being applied are small, since:

1. The number of people impacted is relatively small (DC residents with registration papers for handguns)

2. The police can be expected to continue their policy of arresting for carry, and it will take another court order to stop the practice.

3. DC holders of registration papers will likely know enough about how things "really work" to sit things out a bit to see how things shake out.

4. The window of constitutional carry is likely going to be small. The stay will probably be issued Monday or Tuesday.

 

[Hoover]

Wow! This is cool!

Hopefully tons of people start carrying in D.C. today.

I went to D.C. as a tourist once about 25 years ago. I knew D.C. was on the news often regarding murders, but I never paid attention.

Without me asking during check-in the hotel concierge handed me a map and drew on it to show us places to avoid. It was a creepy feeling to learn what a shit hole that place is.

It was the us murder capital at one time. With the growth of .gov, it's been gentrified some. I think there are still a decent amount of muggings, theft but the murders are down from the highs. Probably similar numbers to boston.

 

[Hoover]

The chances of this decision being applied are small, since:

1. The number of people impacted is relatively small (DC residents with registration papers for handguns)

2. The police can be expected to continue their policy of arresting for carry, and it will take another court order to stop the practice.

3. DC holders of registration papers will likely know enough about how things "really work" to sit things out a bit to see how things shake out.

4. The window of constitutional carry is likely going to be small. The stay will probably be issued Monday or Tuesday.

Dc does arrest people for a single empty shotgun shell, ignore FOPA, so yeah they'll arrest you.

 

[CockedAndLocked]

The chances of this decision being applied are small, since:

1. The number of people impacted is relatively small (DC residents with registration papers for handguns)

2. The police can be expected to continue their policy of arresting for carry, and it will take another court order to stop the practice.

3. DC holders of registration papers will likely know enough about how things "really work" to sit things out a bit to see how things shake out.

4. The window of constitutional carry is likely going to be small. The stay will probably be issued Monday or Tuesday.

1. I believe this ruling pertains to non-residents too. I have no illusions of this happening, but it would be great if thousands of Virginians and others from nearby states flood D.C. today.

2. Yeah.

3. See number 1.

4. Yep. Probably a matter of hours; at most a few days.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

1. I believe this ruling pertains to non-residents too. I have no illusions of this happening, but it would be great if thousands of Virginians and others from nearby states flood D.C. today.

I don't think the ruling stated that the DC registration requirement was unlawful, just the complete ban on carry. A non-resident carrying can probably still be convicted of unregistered possession but not carry.

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It would be great if Gura can go after systems that have carry in theory only, but never grant permits to normal people - NJ, HI and to a very slightly lesser extent NJ.

 

[Hoover]

I don't think the ruling stated that the DC registration requirement was unlawful, just the complete ban on carry. A non-resident carrying can probably still be convicted of unregistered possession but not carry.

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It would be great if Gura can go after systems that have carry in theory only, but never grant permits to normal people - NJ, HI and to a very slightly lesser extent NJ.

Doesn't that case in the 9th now deal with defacto bans? If that decision stands, that would cover HI.

Disappointed SCOTUS let drake stand.

 

[noddaduma]

It's constitutional carry until a license process or a stay of the decision pending appeal. I assume they'll ask for a stay monday.

Dick Heller agrees

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/07/will-dick-heller-carry-in-dc.html?m=1

 

[Mountain]

Good news! Let's hope the momentum continues.

So good to allow citizens to carry in that toilet of lawlessness.

Dad was a pilot, often flying the LAX to DC routes that required an overnight layover. After being held up at gunpoint he said F it and started carrying a Colt .32 in his 'brain bag'. This during the days when crew walked around the metal detector. Big surprise, he was held up once more but this time he said it was less tense when again refusing to hand over his wallet. Crazy Marines ...

Anyway, it's about time citizens have the means to stand up to the generations of unchecked and brazen DC thugs.

 

[Sig Sauer Shooter]

 

[DispositionMatrix]

I don't think the ruling stated that the DC registration requirement was unlawful, just the complete ban on carry. A non-resident carrying can probably still be convicted of unregistered possession but not carry.

Exactly. And DC will probably seek to make the registration process even more onerous. The people who run DC do not like the private ownership of firearms, and they're not going to let the constitution stand in their way. This is why gun owners will never actually win in DC, just as they won't in MA and the other lost-cause ban states, no matter how many court cases are won in support of 2A.

 

[Jason Flare]

EX WHAT?? NO SUCH THING!! Now please edit that and apologize.

No pushups?

 

[Hoover]

I don't think the ruling stated that the DC registration requirement was unlawful, just the complete ban on carry. A non-resident carrying can probably still be convicted of unregistered possession but not carry.

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It would be great if Gura can go after systems that have carry in theory only, but never grant permits to normal people - NJ, HI and to a very slightly lesser extent NJ.

Do you think if peruta in the 9th circuit stands, do you think that SCOTUS would take the case as their would seemingly be a split in circuits after Drake in the 3rd. I would think there would be intense pressure from the anti side to let Peruta stand and not risk a lose at SCOTUS like the pressure on Illinois not to take their carry case there.

Also, what is the status of Peruta, are they still deciding whether to allow the CA attorney general to request an en banc review?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Do you think if peruta in the 9th circuit stands, do you think that SCOTUS would take the case as their would seemingly be a split in circuits after Drake in the 3rd. I would think there would be intense pressure from the anti side to let Peruta stand and not risk a lose at SCOTUS like the pressure on Illinois not to take their carry case there.

Also, what is the status of Peruta, are they still deciding whether to allow the CA attorney general to request an en banc review?

We are a VERY long way from Palmer getting to the Supreme Court and there are some very good reasons why it may never get there. If the District loses at the DC Circuit they may very well decide NOT to petition SCOUTS. They made that mistake in Heller and opened up Pandora's Box. Congress may also step in at some point and legalize carry in DC.

 

[Cero]

While appealing to SCOTUS is always risky from both sides I think that if the district loses they would have to appeal. I read an article a while back (i will try and find it) that outlined why the court has not taken up more 2A cases. It outlined the justices on both sides were afraid of what might happen. Each side was afraid what way Kennedy might vote, so rather than risk it they just refused to hear cases. At some point though they're going to have to take one of these cases. They're only getting older and the court could take a sharp left in the next few years. If Scalia wants to help expand 2A rights he will need to lobby to take one of these cases sooner rather than later.

 

[Hoover]

We are a VERY long way from Palmer getting to the Supreme Court and there are some very good reasons why it may never get there. If the District loses at the DC Circuit they may very well decide NOT to petition SCOUTS. They made that mistake in Heller and opened up Pandora's Box. Congress may also step in at some point and legalize carry in DC.

Where is Peruta? Is the court still thinking about allowing CA (kamela harris) to join the case and go en banc? What type of time frame do you expect for that case, it should be settled this year or early next, right?

 

[Palladin]

ok, so after just reading Heller again, how is it that the MA 'storage laws/trigger laws' still apply here?

3. The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment . The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home. Pp. 56–64.

 

[browncoat]

ok, so after just reading Heller again, how is it that the MA 'storage laws/trigger laws' still apply here?

The honorable members of the MA SJC determined that the trigger lock requirements of MA are sufficiently different from those described in Heller that Heller does not apply to MA. This decision was reached in... 2011 I think.

 

[Palladin]

The honorable members of the MA SJC determined that the trigger lock requirements of MA are sufficiently different from those described in Heller that Heller does not apply to MA. This decision was reached in... 2011 I think.

wonderful. Thanks

found it

http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/massachusetts_supreme_judicial_1.html

 

[92G]

For the comm 2A folks, I am wondering if this Palmer v DC ruling will have any implications for your Davis v Grimes case?

thx!

 

[Chevy 2 65]

The honorable members of the MA SJC determined that the trigger lock requirements of MA are sufficiently different from those described in Heller that Heller does not apply to MA. This decision was reached in... 2011 I think.

IANAL. So thats it?? Can it ever be challenged??

 

[milktree]

ok, so after just reading Heller again, how is it that the MA 'storage laws/trigger laws' still apply here?

...when not carried or under control of the owner, must be stored in a locked container or equipped with a safety device to make it inoperable except by the owner

There's nothing in law that says you can't carry a loaded gun in your house.

 

[Mountain]

No, Just bends and mother****ers until he pukes.

Ok, ok- fixed it, LOL! RIP Dad, though if he could see this he'd be laughing. Just pushups for penance, since it would be a sin to puke and waste a good beer.

OMG, of all his flying destinations, did he ever hate layovers in DC. Of the two times he was held up, I think I would have preferred to see the time he was unarmed and told the mugger to FO. Seriously, he thought worse of DC than he did of Ky Ha.

At least today airline pilots can be certified to carry on the job. I wonder how this works in various libtard jurisdictions like DC or Newark. Maybe interesting for a separate thread before I drift an important one like this any further...