Rifle from 80% lower seized in Rutland MA traffic stop

Road_Clam said:
I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.
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meet more than a few law abiding citizens here that like the challenge of building and finishing their own lower. uh, i believe you can possess an 80% lower anywhere in the USA unless blunt objects are banned there. dont worry about anyone here asking for you to machine their lowers because that would be illegal, maybe those who asked you were the ATF fuzz.
 
Road_Clam said:
I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.
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Another example of NES legal experts.

RC, by your logic only criminals would be reloading because they can't legally by ammo?
 
fencer said:
He had to know that the rifle could get him in some hot water. You would think he would be extra careful about traffic laws.[/ QUOTE]
This is like the people arrested for shoplifting who are found to be in possession of controlled substances or other evidence of criminal activity. They know they are taking a risk of getting caught, but still carry bonus evidence.
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daekken said:
+1 you don't know how fast I'd try nullify any of these types of charges if I were a jury member on such a case. No juries these days even know about nullification.
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Most stuff gets plead out before it hits a jury. I was on a jury where I likely would have acquitted - I certainly wouldn't have found the defendant guilty of the largest charges, or likely even the charge that stuck. The defense attorney didn't know that, so they made the safe bet and plead to the lowest charge they could. As far as they know, they made the best choice for their client, and avoided worse charges.
 
Mr. Gold said:
Kid broke 0 "real" laws, all regulatory crap. going to be in shit load of trouble for who knows how long.
Sad.
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In order to be 'innocent' he had better of inscribed a serial number and manufacturer on the receiver and registered the weapon as an SBR and paid his $200. Something tells me he may not have

This guy was just dumb carrying this around....irresponsible gun builders make it more difficult for the rest of us when they screw up.
 
M1911 said:
They never use the words "jury nullification", but if you answer the questionnaire honestly it makes it difficult to nullify.
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Recently served on a jury, answered every question honestly. They ask questions about your ability to apply the law to the case, I don't remember the exact wording, but I would have no problem with nullifying having answered the question. It all depends on how you interpret things.
 
I feel so much safer now.[thinking]
that uninspected vehicle could have caused a major hazard to the motoring public.
 
browncoat said:
Recently served on a jury, answered every question honestly. They ask questions about your ability to apply the law to the case, I don't remember the exact wording, but I would have no problem with nullifying having answered the question. It all depends on how you interpret things.
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On jury duty I had one better. It was a civil lawsuit involving contractors and the judge asked me if I could give "the benefit of the doubt to a contractor"? DOH!! I honestly answered that I wasn't sure and thus was dismissed! That's even worse than being asked if you would rule strictly according to (an unjust) law!

- - - Updated - - -

W.E.C said:
I feel so much safer now.[thinking]
that uninspected vehicle could have caused a major hazard to the motoring public.
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Well, it certainly was "hazardous" (to the freedom) of this person!!
 
Road_Clam said:
I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.
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bruh. [rolleyes]

this kid did what wrong exactly? didn't get the state-mandated inspection, which gave the cop an "in" to fish for something to jam him up on--which he did.

GPP said:
Bingo. The majority of cops in MA have no idea what an SBR is, let alone a pinned compensator. I spoke with a new LEO tonight in fact, graduated FLETC in late August. Had no idea about LEOSA, or where and when she could carry off duty. ****ing ridiculous.
This kid will be screwed, but if hes got no record he wont do any time.
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i hope you're right, dude.
 
Kid is stupid, knows he is not legal with the beer or the gun but cant spend the time to get his car inspected. Why draw attention to yourself. young kids are always targets for traffic stops, it is a fact. Why give them a reason.
You see this type of crap all the time. major heroin bust on the highway and the violator was stopped for a tail light out or an expired registration.
never ceases to amaze me.
 
drgrant said:
Lol not sure if serious. Most seeking 80% are lazy tinfoilers, not criminals. It's not a "tiny loop hole" either. The only thing you're not wrong about is turning them away, because milling someone elses lower is not legal.
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Regardless of why people want them, there is only one logical law abiding reason to buy an 80% lower and complete it. And that is for the satisfaction of knowing that you built it yourself.

If you are a tinfoil hat guy, just go to a gun show in NH or VT and buy one from a non-licensee with cash and a handshake. Voila, instant ghost gun. Nobody knows you have it. Sure it has a SN, but it doesn't point to you in anyone's A&D book or in any state database. And its perfectly legal. (provided you are a resident of NH or VT)

****Edit - actually, now that I think about it, this could LEGALLY be done in MA. The feds do not require any paperwork on secondary sales between non-licensees. MA does not consider a stripped receiver to be a firearm. So a lower receiver purchased from a non-licensee does not require any paperwork. You would need to find someone to agree to not keep any records, and again, there couldn't be an email or money trail if you want it to be on the down low, but it would be anonymous and perfectly legal. ***

If you want to break the law with plausible deniability, then 80% lowers can be a useful way get yourself into a pre-ban configured AR in states like MA or CT

If you are a MA resident, it would be up to the prosecution to prove the gun was post ban. But as len has pointed out, the deck is stacked against you, and the gain is minimal. A flash hider and telescoping stock.

If you are a CT resident, risk:benefit analysis is much different. New ARs can not be purchased at all. The only ARs that can be sold and purchased or even possessed without a registration certificate are pre-94-ban ARs.

If you are a CT resident and want to possess an AR with some reasonable chance of passing it off as LEGAL pre-ban, then an 80% lower, properly made and properly purchased could be passed off as pre ban. It would need to not have any markings and be of a design that existed prior to 1994. You would need to acquire it with no email or credit card trail.

If this unserialized home built gun has no provenance, then it would be up to the state to prove that it was post ban. With no markings and no email or money trail, they would be at a dead end. (Note - pre 94 guns did not have to be registered per PA13-3).

Years ago, I thought it was wrong to tell people how to circumvent the law. But now with the absurdity of PA13-3, which outlawed the best selling long gun in the country, I've had a change of mind. The last time I checked we still had a First Amendment.

Don
 
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I went to High School with the driver of the vehicle, and it honestly doesn't surprise me. He was an intelligent kid, just not "smart" and always getting in trouble for stupid sh*t. I'm pretty sure he would be a PP as well if I remember correctly. Just goes to show that three screw ups in a row will lead to a big problem.

Also shows that "gun-control" laws don't do accomplish anything either.

I don't see anything wrong with a 20 year old in possession of an AR15, it's legal in the majority of the country and it's a 2nd Amendment right; many of the people who enacted these "Gun control laws" I guarantee were drinking before 21, and how dangerous could a 2007 Toyota with an out of date inspection sticker honestly be?

But there are laws in our State and if you get caught not abiding by them, you're gonna get railed, it's that simple.
 
I can almost guarantee you the ADA will ask for time. It will absolutely rely upon the skill of the defense attorney and maybe getting lucky with the right judge. He's looking at minimum mandatory time if charged under 10A. He might be lucky if he only does 18 mos.
 
Road_Clam said:
The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ?.
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So much idiocy in this post that I don't even know where to begin.

It is not a tiny loophole. Here's some reading material on the subject to bring you up to speed. https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/receiver-blanks

"only legal to posses on your residence property" that is so stupid a statement, that I'm not even going to address it.

I have held a MA CCW permit continuously for 42 years, I have had my MA license to posses machine gun for over 7 years. I have had my 03 FFL for around 15 years, so I've even been checked out by the ATF multiple times (at every renewal) So I assure you that I am not a PP of any sort.

I build 80%ers because I enjoy it, plain and simple. It's called a hobby, maybe you should find one for yourself, maybe it will keep you off-line and from making such foolish posts.
 
so if guns think about killing people, do these 80% of "80%" guns think about it or they all think about killing people 80% of the time ... kind of like cats /troll [rofl]
 
LoginName said:
That's why I think there might be the possibility (however slight), that they might put the screws to the kid simply because
the firearm/SBR was built from an 80% receiver... not that it makes it any more or less illegal, but because all this "ghost gun"
shit has been getting attention and has the antis up in arms.

At a minimum, they might want to question him about how he obtained it, from whom, and if he performed the work himself,
if he has anymore in his possession.
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He can take the 5th in that case because nothing good comes out of any of those questions from his standpoint.
 
To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ?
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Your knowledge of state and federal gun law is seriously lacking. I suggest you consider taking Len's class and, before you do, exercise great caution in posting tidbits of legal knowledge and you are likely to mislead people.

You are smart for not finishing 80%ers - not because there is anything wrong with the 80% concept, but finishing one for someone else without a mfgr license is legally problematic.
 

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