Rifle from 80% lower seized in Rutland MA traffic stop

[xtry51]

That's why I think there might be the possibility (however slight), that they might put the screws to the kid simply because
the firearm/SBR was built from an 80% receiver... not that it makes it any more or less illegal, but because all this "ghost gun"
shit has been getting attention and has the antis up in arms.

At a minimum, they might want to question him about how he obtained it, from whom, and if he performed the work himself,
if he has anymore in his possession.

I think that's exactly the reason they won't touch it. 80% firearms are too complicated for the sheep to understand and this case has no other circumstances.

Now if this guy had used an SBR 80% to shoot up a school, they'd be all over that.

The ATF is nothing more than an anti gun political tool. They want headline cases they can use to claim they need more $$$$ and laws, not mundane traffic stops that happen to result in finding a rifle.

 

[rkwjunior]

Subbed.



Would you like them to?

Really?? No, of course not. They make everyone go through a bunch of BS to acquire NFA stuff, whats the point if ur not going to enforce it?

 

[Mountain]

They seem pretty full retard for posting this on their Facebook.

That little rifle does look kinda badass, LOL. Posting it on their Faceplant gives them more street cred. Rutland Five-O

IMO, the Rutland cops are pretty decent folks, at least in my experience. This poor kid was almost begging for the hammer to drop.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I wonder if this kid fell victim to the "80% Idiocy" I've run into at my local club(s).

That's where people hear that there's no federal paperwork required on an 80% lower, and in their mind change that to "All firearms laws are magically suspended and you can do whatever you want with an 80% lower".

I've had to break the bad news to people that their 10" barrel and home made lightning link were not in compliance with the law. They got mad at me and told me I was wrong. Some shit you can't fix.

 

[xtry51]

Totally plausible.

 

[drgrant]

Because feds basically never prosecute gun crimes unless they have some weird stick up their ass about something else. Just like how less than 0.1% of felons being denied purchase of a firearm are ever prosecuted.

Once in awhile they get testy over inane shit... David Olofson, and the whole Abramski thing are evidence of that, and before that, Michael Lara (who was acquitted). I liken it to bored ATF agents and dumb AUSAs trying to make a name for themselves. On the other end of the spectrum Rosenthal, Bloomberg and others have facilitated federal felonies, and brag about it, and nothing happens because it doesn't fit the current anti gun political narrative in the ATF.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if this kid fell victim to the "80% Idiocy" I've run into at my local club(s).

That's where people hear that there's no federal paperwork required on an 80% lower, and in their mind change that to "All firearms laws are magically suspended and you can do whatever you want with an 80% lower".

I've had to break the bad news to people that their 10" barrel and home made lightning link were not in compliance with the law. They got mad at me and told me I was wrong. Some shit you can't fix.

Wouldn't surprise me if this kid built it off internet tinfoiler sites, etc...

 

[drgrant]

Really?? No, of course not. They make everyone go through a bunch of BS to acquire NFA stuff, whats the point if ur not going to enforce it?

Lol so you want the feds prosecuting every malum prohibitum gun law violation? That would be a dumpster fire. Then again it might result in some of the laws getting changed.

 

[teaser452]

Lol so you want the feds prosecuting every malum prohibitum gun law violation? That would be a dumpster fire. Then again it might result in some of the laws getting changed.

That might be his point. When the laws are enforced unequally and sporadically, you end up with injustice. Remember that book, 3 Felonies a Day? We have so many laws, that if right now they wanted to nail you, they could raid your house with very little pretext, say, a neighbor calls about a noise complaint, maybe shots fired in your house or any BS story, and nail you with at least 3 felonies, 3 felonies you're not even aware of.

Nobody is free when laws aren't applied consistently.

And your right, if they DID start prosecuting every stupid little law, then maybe people would wake up. The problem is they pick us off one by one when they so choose. And even when innocent and proven so in court, it's the process that is the punishment.

 

[GPP]

All police officers are empowered to enforce MGL 131, The problem is not many of them have the knowledge or care to have the knowledge of that law.

Bingo. The majority of cops in MA have no idea what an SBR is, let alone a pinned compensator. I spoke with a new LEO tonight in fact, graduated FLETC in late August. Had no idea about LEOSA, or where and when she could carry off duty. ****ing ridiculous.
This kid will be screwed, but if hes got no record he wont do any time.

 

[GPP]

I think that's exactly the reason they won't touch it. 80% firearms are too complicated for the sheep to understand and this case has no other circumstances.

Now if this guy had used an SBR 80% to shoot up a school, they'd be all over that.

The ATF is nothing more than an anti gun political tool. They want headline cases they can use to claim they need more $$$$ and laws, not mundane traffic stops that happen to result in finding a rifle.

Absolutely right on the money Kevin.

 

[M1911]

It's a good opportunity for jury nullification.

You must not be familiar with MA jurors.

 

[soam]

Serious question on the nullification thing - do they "screen" for it? In other words, do they ask potential jurors if they know what it is? If they do, do they use it as a reason to excuse jurors? I ask mainly because I have yet to be called for jury duty despite being eligible for over a decade.

 

[M1911]

Serious question on the nullification thing - do they "screen" for it? In other words, do they ask potential jurors if they know what it is? If they do, do they use it as a reason to excuse jurors? I ask mainly because I have yet to be called for jury duty despite being eligible for over a decade.

They never use the words "jury nullification", but if you answer the questionnaire honestly it makes it difficult to nullify.

 

[dcmdon]

I wish they'd give full details. Notably is the offender from Massachusetts, and what firearms charges. Failure to do so males it difficult to evaluate someone else mistakes and spot check your firearm knowledge.

To me it looks like:
Transporting a loaded firearm unlocked.
Barrel length under 16"
Failure to register you firearm. (Ma requires registration once a lower is capable of being fired.)
Dubious stamp status

Could also have:

Awb for upinned stock/flash hider
Strangely, mags look like 10 founders based off relative height to body.

Close.

Firearms don't have to be locked during transport. A trigger lock gets you nothing.

It only needs to be in a locked container if you have something like a wagon or SUV. If you have a modern sedan, most of which have back seat releases inside the trunk.

I agree with
1) Un-taxed SBR - Lets not forget that failing to get a stamp for a home made SBR or can is nothing but tax evasion.
2) transporting loaded


Don

 

[Glock1911]

death sentence. you go mass!

 

[MachineHead]

Lightning Link = energy of the gods. It sucks that a 2oz piece of metal bent in a certain fashion costs thousands of dollars if done the right way. Fun prohibitum.

 

[Smash05]

Depends on whether they go FR on examining the thing, they got enough to hang the kid as it is...

-Mike

State police Lab always checks. I just learned this about 2 mos ago. Outside of Suffolk County guns go there. BPD might not check, unless prompted by the DA. Either way, outside of Suffolk, the Superior Court ADA's have a lot of time on their hands to find charges to add on.

 

[Smash05]

Serious question on the nullification thing - do they "screen" for it? In other words, do they ask potential jurors if they know what it is? If they do, do they use it as a reason to excuse jurors? I ask mainly because I have yet to be called for jury duty despite being eligible for over a decade.

I've selected juries where it came up. Jurors were excused.

 

[GPP]

State police Lab always checks. I just learned this about 2 mos ago. Outside of Suffolk County guns go there. BPD might not check, unless prompted by the DA. Either way, outside of Suffolk, the Superior Court ADA's have a lot of time on their hands to find charges to add on.

The MSP ballistics/gun lab guys absolutely know their shit, there are only a few of them, and they are veterans and well versed.
I can only speak for Norfolk County ADAs, but their firearms expertise doesnt come from time on their hands, it comes from them knowing who to ask

 

[Len-2A Training]

The MSP ballistics/gun lab guys absolutely know their shit, there are only a few of them, and they are veterans and well versed.
I can only speak for Norfolk County ADAs, but their firearms expertise doesnt come from time on their hands, it comes from them knowing who to ask

My experience does not correlate to this. We'll discuss this further in person some day.

ETA: Admittedly my sample size is one ADA and one MSP Trooper with 25 yrs experience and neither had a clue, but definitely threw spaghetti against the defendant.

 

[Road_Clam]

I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.

 

[CMEBoston]

I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.

I want an 80% lower and I'm not a PP....

The only benefit of an 80% lower is you can claim you built it yourself and it doesn't need to be serialized... You still need to be able to legally own it in your state

 

[Mr.E]

I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.

So much fail in this sentence buddy...

 

[Kevski]

"Rutland strong" - I can see the shirts now

 

[CTpatriot]

Depends on whether they go FR on examining the thing, they got enough to hang the kid as it is...

-Mike

if they want to, they will examine it until it becomes a mg.

 

[mclina]

I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.

I would agree that people who try to get someone else to finish their 80% lowers may be doing so because they can't legally buy their own 100% lower.

If you follow the law, and you just don't want Uncle Sam to have records of every gun you own, they do serve a purpose for the law-abiding as well. Not necessarily in a state like MA where you are required to file FA-10 forms.

Though I am still unclear on whether MA law actually does require an FA-10 on a homebuild. It's not exactly an acquisition or a transfer.

From the online portal:

Massachusetts General Law c. 140, §§128A and 128B, requires all individuals who sell, transfer, inherit, or lose a firearm to report the sale, transfer, inheritance, or loss of the firearms to the Department of Criminal Justice Information Services Firearms Records Bureau (FRB). This on-line system will allow you to report the sale, transfer, inheritance, or loss/theft data electronically to the FRB.

 

[drgrant]

I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.

Lol not sure if serious. Most seeking 80% are lazy tinfoilers, not criminals. It's not a "tiny loop hole" either. The only thing you're not wrong about is turning them away, because milling someone elses lower is not legal.

 

[knfmn]

I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.

What? On point A, "Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record": Wrong. People build 80% lowers because they can and because it keeps the .gov out of their lives (except in MA, where you have to FA10 the lower once you build it into a rifle). It's not a "tiny loop hole"...it's established law. It's completely legal and isn't some way for people to dodge around being prohibited persons. Ignorant statements like that just give anti's more ammunition to try to ban something legal. Point B, "an 80% lower is only legal to posses (sic) on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect)": you're absolutely incorrect. 80% lowers are legal to own where ever you can own a completed firearm. Point C: "Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws, except in this specific case.": This kid is guilty of nothing but failure to obey malum prohibitum laws. In a normal world absolutely nothing he did would be illegal. He's getting jammed up because he had a piece of metal without the proper permission slip from the state. He's further getting jammed up because he had a piece of metal within that piece of metal without a permission slip. Finally he is getting jammed up because he is below an arbitrary age limit to possess a substance that has absolutely no impact upon anyone other than himself.

 

[drgrant]

I would agree that people who try to get someone else to finish their 80% lowers may be doing so because they can't legally buy their own 100% lower.

If you follow the law, and you just don't want Uncle Sam to have records of every gun you own, they do serve a purpose for the law-abiding as well. Not necessarily in a state like MA where you are required to file FA-10 forms.

Though I am still unclear on whether MA law actually does require an FA-10 on a homebuild. It's not exactly an acquisition or a transfer.

From the online portal:

Lol you assume that anyone who builds off an 80 would actually fill one out.... anyone who says they do in MA is either a liar, or really, really stupid.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I do CNC machining and I've had a few "inquiries'" as to if I would machine up an 80% lower. Answer is no, end of story , don't ask again. I want zero association with 80% lowers. The 80% lower is a answer to a tiny loop hole in BATF language. Laws are laws and the only guys that seek 80% lowers are the guys with convictions such as DWI's and Domestic's on their record. To my understanding an 80% lower is only legal to posses on your residence property (chime in if I'm incorrect) ? The whole "SBR" thing is just too stupid to attempt illegally, especially in MA. All my SBR club shooting buddies built them , and posses the legal stamp. I have no sympathy for a stupid kid (or anyone) that knowingly builds (or buys) an illegal firearm, and transports fully loaded and chambered, and being a minor cruising around with alcohol in your vehicle ? Sometimes in life I feel so dumb for obeying laws , except in this specific case.

the derp is heavy in this post....