Recoil/Knockdown Power .45 vs. 10mm

[M1911]

Then again, you could always get light 10mm ammo (like the old FBI rounds).

Or just use wimpy reloads, like I do...

 

[number9]

The 10mm is a lot more popular than .40S&W is, right? Are the ballistic characteristics between the two much different? Or even price?

 

[EddieCoyle]

The 10mm is a lot more popular than .40S&W is, right? Are the ballistic characteristics between the two much different? Or even price?

The 10mm is much, much less popular than the .40 S&W. The .40 S&W is basically a "10mm short". The 10mm came first. In the wake of the "Miami Shootout", the FBI was looking for a caliber with more punch than the 9mm. They tested the 10mm (the FBI guns were S&W 1076's). I'm oversimplifying here but, the field agents liked the new caliber, the file clerks and desk personnel found it to have too much recoil. As a result, the FBI adopted a downloaded version the 10mm cartridge. S&W quickly realized that they could duplicate the ballistics of the downloaded version of the 10mm, and put it in a shorter case. The .40 S&W was born.

Since its inception, the .40 S&W has been perhaps the fastset growing cartridge ever, leaving the more powerful 10mm in the dust. The ammo for the 10mm is getting more and more expensive, and is getting harder to find.

The 10mm is still very popular among firearms afficianados, especially those that handload. I have 3 10mm handguns, and I handload. I can say that the 10mm is one of the most versatile cartridges (perhaps the most versatile autoloader cartridge) ever.

 

[jhrosier]

The 10mm is a lot more popular than .40S&W is, right? Are the ballistic characteristics between the two much different? Or even price?

No, yes, yes

The 10mm is sort of a "cult classic", like the .41Mag. If you have owned one, you probably love it, if not, you've probably never heard of it.

The .40S&W is a shortened 10mm with the load reduced to match the old "FBI" load in the 10mm.

The .40S&W is a very popular round with high volume sales. The 10mm is an increasingly obscure round with very modest sales. The ammo prices tend to reflect this.

 

[EddieCoyle]

One other thing:

The 10mm has a bit of a "leg up" when compared to other (as jhrosier correctly articulated) "cult classics" - it uses the same bullets as the .40 S&W, ensuring a steady supply of a wide selection of projectiles.

The availability of plentiful .40 caliber bullets is also helping to keep alive another cartridge - the old 38-40.

 

[number9]

Hmph. I knew how the .40S&W was developed out of the idea of a less powerful 10mm, but I had no idea that the .40 had become more popular! I thought there were far more 10mm models on the market than .40s, shows what I know.

 

[drgrant]

"The only real downer with 10mm is that shooting a G29 with factory or greater .
10mm for long periods of time tends to beat up ones hand a
bit, especially if you have small hands. I like the gun but I can't
practice with more than a box or two before I'm "done".


You probably already know this, but KKM makes a .40 barrel that just drops into the G29. I have one and it's great! Cheaper and less punnishing that
10mm.

Yes, but that defeats the entire purpouse of shooting 10mm. Why shoot
10mm if you dont have the JUICE?!??! If I wanted to shoot
.40, I would have bought a G23, or just use one of my other .40
handguns. I guess the conversion barrel isnt a bad option, though, for the
sake of more consistent practice with the exact same platform. But if
the recoil isnt as stiff, then is it really the same?

Although I carry my G29 from time to time, it's mostly for the "amusement
factor" of shooting it. I thought I would have developed a flinch with
the thing, or something, but in practical terms I'm just about as accurate
with it as my G19.

I personally feel that 10mm loaded with "buffalo Bore" or "double Tap" full power loads truly beats .45
I will never give up my 1911's though!

Well, depending on who you talk to, etc, numbers wise, even the
relatively anemic commercial 10mm loads out there, they still make
way better numbers than .45 does, aside from the expanded bullet
diameter thing. Even the popular 175 gr win silveritp load will destroy
most .45 ACP loads, if you're just going "by the numbers". From an
FPE/velocity standpoint, .45 ACP looks pretty wimpy in comparison. One has
to get back to .45 Super levels to start boxing with 10mm again at that
point.

Course, it depends on the side of the "stopping power" debate one is on.

For practical purpouses, I tend to belive the wound ballistics people more
than the energy transfer people.... Although its hard to overcome the
fact that 10mm is still "more powerful" by the numbers. (at least for
anything loaded remotely close to the typical commercial spec... and
if we're talking NORMA Power Point grade loads, then that's serious juice.).


-Mike

 

[Uncle Fester]

10mm is pretty darn sweet and is my daily companion while in the Maine woods and even urbanish settings.
My G29 is very comfortable, very accurate, and just plain SWEET.
I've owned three .45s and loved them all dearly but after purchasing the G29 from Pat, I sold two of the .45s and keep the third because... because... uh... probably because of the thousands of pieces of brass and projectiles I still have in my possession and it's a nice shooter to boot.
Pure energy considerations give the nod to the 10 but "whatever floats your boat."
I'd love to get more 10mm guys on board to bring the price of brass down.
Lets start a 10mm revolution guys. Who's buying??????

A 10mm conversion kit for my EAA Witness is on my list (pretty close to the top).

 

[Coyote33]

...numbers wise, even the
relatively anemic commercial 10mm loads out there, they still make
way better numbers than .45 does, aside from the expanded bullet
diameter thing. Even the popular 175 gr win silveritp load will destroy
most .45 ACP loads, if you're just going "by the numbers". From an
FPE/velocity standpoint, .45 ACP looks pretty wimpy in comparison. One has
to get back to .45 Super levels to start boxing with 10mm again at that
point.

Course, it depends on the side of the "stopping power" debate one is on.

For practical purpouses, I tend to belive the wound ballistics people more
than the energy transfer people.... Although its hard to overcome the
fact that 10mm is still "more powerful" by the numbers. ...

You saw the 400 Corbon info, right? You can have both if you want.

 

[drgrant]

The 10mm is a lot more popular than .40S&W is, right? Are the ballistic characteristics between the two much different? Or even price?

The others answered most of this, but I wanted to chime in on the price
thing.

Worst case, a box of .40 S+W plinking ammo is like $9-10. Maybe less
if you buy it in a case lot. (Last yr I paid like $8 a box).

Best case, these days, a box of 10mm Auto is about $18-20.

This is why most of the "serious" 10mm shooters, end up
reloading, if they shoot it enough to warrant it. Cost recovery with
10mm is relatively fast compared to the other calibers.

I think the high price of 10mm Auto commercial ammo is because the people that make it only make like a fixed amount of it
every year, or every production cycle, so there is no such thing as over supply, and since the volumes are lower its harder
for distributors and the like to get lower pricing. So the ammo companies that still make it have to use it as a cash
cow of sorts, although by sheer volume alone I doubt they make as much off a years production of 10mm Auto as they do a
years production of .40 S+W. The latter probably is produced in greater volume by many orders of magnitude, as tons of
LE agencies are using the caliber. Even with .357 sig being popular, I don't think it has eclipsed the .40, yet.


-Mike

 

[firtree]

And now FireDragon conversion barrels are available to convert the
Glock 21 to 10mm!

http://www.efkfiredragon.com/proddetail.php?prod=GK2110PBC

 

[drgrant]

You saw the 400 Corbon info, right? You can have both if you want.

The .400 corbon is still a .40 ish diameter projectile, which means that the
expanded size is going to be similar to a 10mm or a .40. The only
real enticement to .400 corbon that its basically an end around to convert
guns that fire .45 ACP to fire 10mm without having the long cartridge
length issues. (eg, no need for special mags, or dirty breechface
hacks, etc.).

.400 Corbon is also a wildcat, with virtually no commercial ammo
choices aside from CorBon. Even DoubleTap doesn't load ammo in
.400 Corbon. While 10mm Auto isn't all that popular, it still has so far
managed to avoid drifting into wildcat territory. I can still go to a
few gun stores and find 10mm on the shelf somewhere. I've never seen
a box of .400 Corbon.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

And now FireDragon conversion barrels are available to convert the
Glock 21 to 10mm!

http://www.efkfiredragon.com/proddetail.php?prod=GK2110PBC

That idea just seems inherently bad..... Theres a reason the G20's slide weighs
more than the G21's does. On the other hand, it's possible that
because the barrel is ported, the slide velocity is going to be reduced a bit,
and the gun won't get beat up as much. Those ports don't look very
agressive, though. (compared to the vents on my .45 acp compensated
gun... which you could fit a small stack of dimes in each vent. )

-Mike