Rant: Moonbat Judge

[swatgig]

There was a road rage incident reported in the Worcester Telegram. All the details given were that one person got out of his car and walked towards other person. Person in car (LTC holder) pulls out a gun. Person one turns around, runs away, and calls the police.

On the face of it, it sounds like the person with the gun defused what could have been a violent encounter. No?

Of course not, this is Massachusetts!

Police are waiting at LTC holder's home when he gets there and arrest him for Assault with a Deadly Weapon. He posts bail of $500 and heads to court.

Cameras are waiting at courthouse. Lawyers arrange for defendant to be arraigned out of view of the cameras.

The District Attorney asked for the same bail and he be ordered to surrender any firearms and licenses.

Judge increases bail to $1500 (so he's taken back into custody), he's ordered to surrender all licenses and firearms to the police, and he is to be fitted with a GPS and placed under house arrest.

The lesson to be learned is do not pull out your gun unless you intend to shoot.

 

[bigblue]

Waiting for the rant... Is there at least a link so we can rant?

 

[drgrant]

I've never heard of a single road rage case in MA involving an LTC holder (where a gun was produced) where it turned out good for the LTC holder. It's almost as if the courts view both parties as part of the problem by default (eg, like it's a form of mutual combat, almost) and that a road rage case will not have a victim, per se, by default.

Linda Hamilton (RIP) was probably the most prolific of these, and she won't be the last one....

-Mike

 

[swatgig]

I've had two cases with similar fact patterns. Neither was arrested, and both got back their LTC. This one is not factually different, just a different judge.

 

[DrBurnsides]

This is why I want a car video camera. Now to search for that thread..

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This is to send a message to the defendant - you WILL take the no jail time / PP for life plea bargain, or this judge will treat you like a common criminal and you'll do time.

This person will swallow hard, take the deal, lose his guns, and be a PP for life, possibly federally.

 

[swatgig]

This is why I want a car video camera. Now to search for that thread..

Wouldn't help. Nobody is disputing that the other guy got out of his car and headed towards the defendant. In fact, that's exactly how the DA described it. He's charged because he pulled the gun.

 

[modernhamlet]

Wouldn't help. Nobody is disputing that the other guy got out of his car and headed towards the defendant. In fact, that's exactly how the DA described it. He's charged because he pulled the gun.

In other words, according to this judge and the prosecutor, getting out of your car and approaching another driver in anger is not considered a valid threat to the other driver's life.

Wonder where the line is for them then?

 

[EC1]

Wouldn't help. Nobody is disputing that the other guy got out of his car and headed towards the defendant. In fact, that's exactly how the DA described it. He's charged because he pulled the gun.

so you wait until he breaks your window, threatens you, and reaches in then you take matters into your hands?

 

[drgrant]

I've had two cases with similar fact patterns. Neither was arrested, and both got back their LTC. This one is not factually different, just a different judge.

Was there a difference in terms of who called the cops first, though?

-Mike

 

[bigblue]

Wouldn't help. Nobody is disputing that the other guy got out of his car and headed towards the defendant. In fact, that's exactly how the DA described it. He's charged because he pulled the gun.

So what is the appropriate response in this situation? Call the copsh first? Don't stop?

I get that pulling a firearm not in self defense is a bad idea in general but ... I have the feeling it wouldn't matter here.

In other words, according to this judge and the prosecutor, getting out of your car and approaching another driver in anger is not considered a valid threat to the other driver's life.

Wonder where the line is for them then?

I think the problem lies in the fact that you are in a car that can expedite your removal from the situation: Egress.

 

[drgrant]

so you wait until he breaks your window, threatens you, and reaches in then you take matters into your hands?

No, if you want the cheap way out you drive off, get away... etc... do anything except draw.

-Mike

 

[teaser452]

Having read Andrew Branca's guide to self defense book, this is exactly what I gleaned from his explanation of MA laws. You must flee. Only when cornered and in mortal danger can you pull the gun. And then you should have been shooting if you were so afraid.

Other states are much more permissive. It pays to know your rights, or lack thereof.

 

[teaser452]

So what is the appropriate response in this situation? Call the copsh first? Don't stop?

I get that pulling a firearm not in self defense is a bad idea in general but ... I have the feeling it wouldn't matter here.



I think the problem lies in the fact that you are in a car that can expedite your removal from the situation: Egress.

im in an iPhone. Maybe Mike can pull up the clip from the "night at the museum" with Ben stiller. "better Run Run Dum Dum." This is MA and frankly probably the best thing to do In any state. Just drive away.

 

[drgrant]

Having read Andrew Branca's guide to self defense book, this is exactly what I gleaned from his explanation of MA laws. You must flee. Only when cornered and in mortal danger can you pull the gun. And then you should have been shooting if you were so afraid.

Yes, except the road rage thing is quite a bit worse than that, because some judges will assume you are part of the problem and that you escalated the conflict... of course I'm going to guess facing a jury is an option as well, but I bet that costs considerably more money.

-Mike

 

[EC1]

No, if you want the cheap way out you drive off, get away... etc... do anything except draw.

-Mike

assuming traffic is not a hindrance?

 

[drgrant]

assuming traffic is not a hindrance?

I would risk getting into a serious accident before drawing a handgun in a road rage accident. It'd be easier to defend that in court.

ETA: if you're boxed in, that's a whole other ballgame, like the "boxed in traffic, guy beating on your window with a tire iron" type scenario... but that isn't 999 out of 1000 road rage cases in MA....

-Mike

 

[swatgig]

Was there a difference in terms of who called the cops first, though?

-Mike

Nope.

 

[drgrant]

Nope.

So basically, what you're suggesting is that there is some kind of clear delineation of the mindset of judges in MA, some are willing to try to view the case objectively, and others... have this annoying tendency to view the person who introduced the gun as automatically being the entire problem....

-Mike

 

[Chet0729]

Most road rage incidents could be avoided if at least one of the people wants to avoid the conflict. It usually takes at least 2 morons for it to escalate

 

[swatgig]

so you wait until he breaks your window, threatens you, and reaches in then you take matters into your hands?

Yup. That pretty much covers it.

 

[TomMontana]

Was it anything like this?

 

[Mountain]

Was it anything like this?

Well, that certainly supports the two morons theory...

 

[MachineHead]

Was it anything like this?

Well, at least he's wearing orange for the upcoming festivities.

 

[Picton]

Frankly, it wouldn't ever occur to me to draw on some dude just walking toward my car. Dudes have walked toward my car at least twice before; somehow, I've managed to survive their walk.

I'd just drive away. Nothing else makes sense to me. Even if the guy is reaching for a gun, I'm still driving away unless he's pointing it at me. I'm just not that eager to get into a gunfight, no matter what state I'm in.

There's an important difference between having your gun ready and letting the approaching guy know you've got the gun ready.

 

[swatgig]

Well, that certainly supports the two morons theory...

Moron #1 has a Star Trek license plate: 1701D

 

[bigblue]

Most road rage incidents could be avoided if at least one of the people wants to avoid the conflict. It usually takes at least 2 morons for it to escalate

Disagree: Some people just come completely unhinged at the slightest perceived slight.

 

[drgrant]

Well, at least he's wearing orange for the upcoming festivities.

I looked this one up, supposedly guy didn't get arrested, but the sheriff yanked his CCW and the guy lost his job....

http://www.wvtm13.com/13-investigates/13-INVESTIGATES-Road-rage/29317960

When you read this it is pretty obvious that both of these guys are ****ing idiots.

-Mike

 

[modernhamlet]

Disagree: Some people just come completely unhinged at the slightest perceived slight.

True, but I'd be willing to bet those people are very rarely concealed carry permit holders.

 

[bigblue]

True, but I'd be willing to bet those people are very rarely concealed carry permit holders.

That's kind of the point though, isn't it? That's why we carry: For those unpredictable asshats. I think it was GPP who wrote (maybe in a PM if I can find it) that not all criminals have been caught & prosecuted yet.