Quincy officers placed on administrative leave for expired gun permits

[StevieP]

It sounds like they have a policy requiring them to have LTCs. Maybe its some weird union thing or something.

-Mike

So, if they "screw up" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge know what I mean?) and don't renew their license, they get a free paid vacation, courtesy of the taxpayers who (correct me if I'm misspeaking) pay their salaries while on "paid administrative leave."

If it's NOT the taxpayers, who DOES pay their salaries and benefits while effectively suspended from working? The union? And why is the union subsidizing criminals?

Or are we not allowed to call them that? If anyone ELSE didn't have a license, there'd be a no-knock SWAT team arriving about 2:30am to take possession of all their (personal and departmental) firearms, and an 8am news conference to display their arsenals of high-powered assault rifles, AKs and Glocks with high-capacity magazines.

 

[el duderino]

The department official said the department was expediting the process to renew the permits, and officers would return to work once their permits were renewed.

Wish I could get in on that.

Tim

Well ya know, for them it's a matter of public safety

 

[Mark from MA]

From the article: Captain John Dougan states that 15 officers and 6 supervisors were placed on paid leave. He further states, that since we have over 200 officers, staffing will not be an issue and that, "We have pleanty (sic) of personnel." How many police departments can afford to place 10% of their force on paid leave and NOT have staffing issues? Most likely, their absence will filled by overtime. How would you like to be a taxpayer in Quincy and read this?

Sounds like a group fishing trip or maybe a snowmobiling trip up north to me. Couldnt get the time off altogether so they found a loophole for free vacations.

If they arent responsible enough to follow policy and state law they arent responsible enough to own firearms and should all be canned

 

[Malkin]

I hope they have to wait for a interview. Then another three months for the renewal.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm confused. Couldn't they just carry on their badge? So why put them on leave?

It sounds like they have a policy requiring them to have LTCs. Maybe its some weird union thing or something.

-Mike

MGL lets all LEOs "carry on the badge". They do not need a LTC at all, they just can't buy anything w/o a LTC.

So this is some department policy approved in their union contract, not any violation of law.

It's not even that. This is a department policy. Police can carry while on the job, but the weapon must be secured at the end of shift.

This may be a dept policy, but it isn't what MGL says "black letter of the law". I am aware that EOPS has "ruled upon high" that every officer MUST (according to them) leave their large-cap mags at the station at the end of shift, but it would be impolite of me to state here what senior officers at numerous PDs have to say about this "rule" (EOPS has no authority to "interpret" MGL).

Many PDs insist that all officers have LTCs as an initial screening of candidates and as a mechanism to keep track that someone hasn't been charged with a crime somewhere else (if the PD issued the LTC, they will get a "ping" on "subsequent activity" meaning an open court case). Again, policy.

Many officers that I worked with refused to get LTCs, even when a prior chief offered to issue them at no cost (back before law allowed for this) and many still didn't want any part of it for whatever reason.


--------------------

Maybe the officers were having trouble getting appointments for their renewals, perhaps being told that the next appointments were in June/July . . . just like "common folks"!

 

[Garys]

They will get the job back and the union will get them all back pay for the overtime and details that was available to them during there time off.
Nice vacation.

They haven't lost their jobs, but they won't get any back pay for any details. We've had several EMTs over the years who stupidly let their certifications expire. Unlike Quincy, they were removed from the payroll until they could get their tickets back. No pay, no benefits (unless they paid for health insurance themselves), no nothing. They lost seniority time while they were off the payroll.

People have a very warped idea of what unions can and cannot do. In MA grievances and arbitration are generally restricted to contractual language. I have no idea what the QPPOA contract says about this and frankly don't much care. What would be important and the only venue for any compensation would be what the contract says.

Keep in mind that Quincy does not have a residency requirement for police officers, so the permits will come from wherever they live, not necessarily from Quincy. I have no doubt that the process will be expedited for the officers. It's called professional courtesy and it exists in every field, public or private.

ETA: If the city doesn't monitor when permits expire, they should change their policy. Our training division monitored everyone's EMT expiration, driver's license expiration, CPR and ACLS card expiration. State law required us to have those to work and the department required us to get everything except the DL through them. They had a nice Excel sheet with everyone's information in it and we knew when we were going to expire. If the administration won't do that, then the union should. Really, it's not rocket surgery.

 

[ISOTOX]

I'd say their unfit if they're not responsible enough to even renew their permits! Strip them!.....

Agree....

 

[ThePreBanMan]

"administrative leave" is just another word for unscheduled paid vacation.. Not like those police officers with expired permits could do office work, ride a desk, etc. No they are completely unfit for duty - but continue to pull a pay check. Nice...

 

[hminsky]

Paid leave. Whats the point of having a double standard if you don't take advantage of it?

 

[oarie]

Good thing they don't work in Everett, huh? They'd have to wait a year for their licenses to be renewed.

Wouldn't it depend on where they LIVE not WORK? Or is that too different for police?

Give the Copes one these and ask them to tell us how that works out....No permit needed I think?

They are already on paid vacation, er... administrative leave. You give them one of those and they will be likely to be suspended with pay.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I thought they had a word for people like this: felons

"Civilly responsible violator" is the correct term. If the officer did not have the gun permit renewed for a reason other than file a change of address, become statutorily prohibited; or filed a renewal and been rejected, possession/carry on the expired permit is a civil, not a criminal, offense.

 

[ClickBoom]

Well ya know, for them it's a matter of public safety

Of course it is, but that don't excuse them from the law IMHO

Tim

 

[Len-2A Training]

IIRC That a license maybe issued by the town in which one has a business or employed. So they would not have to get one from the town in which they live. Why do you think Quincy is expediting them? Because they are the ones issuing them.

I know that you understood the concept but others will misconstrue your wording.

Unlike "ordinary employees", MGL allows the employing PD to issue a LTC to any police officer on their force, no matter where they live (even if they live in another state). Officers have the option of getting the permit where they live or their employing department.

Of course it is, but that don't excuse them from the law IMHO

Tim

Again, it is NOT LAW, strictly an administrative policy of QPD!

At least 1/2 the officers in my former PD did NOT ever possess LTCs and nothing short of an administrative policy could require that. They didn't want the LTCs even when offered for free!

- - - Updated - - -

"Civilly responsible violator" is the correct term. If the officer did not have the gun permit renewed for a reason other than file a change of address, become statutorily prohibited; or filed a renewal and been rejected, possession/carry on the expired permit is a civil, not a criminal, offense.

Rob, if they merely decided not to renew or forgot they are NOT violators in any legal sense. No requirement in MGL for LEOs to possess LTCs. It is department policy and only that.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob, if they merely decided not to renew or forgot they are NOT violators in any legal sense. No requirement in MGL for LEOs to possess LTCs. It is department policy and only that.

Understood. I was referring to LTCs in general, and not including the LEO exemption.

 

[okie]

one rule for those whom live off tax money, and one rule for everybody else.

 

[ClickBoom]

Again, it is NOT LAW, strictly an administrative policy of QPD!

At least 1/2 the officers in my former PD did NOT ever possess LTCs and nothing short of an administrative policy could require that. They didn't want the LTCs even when offered for free!

Ok I got ya!

Tim

 

[kieron]

The department official said the department was expediting the process to renew the permits, and officers would return to work once their permits were renewed.

It's a shame that some animals on the farm are more equal than others.

 

[Mark from MA]

one rule for those whom live off tax money, and one rule for everybody else.

This is pretty much it. Nothing to see here move along

 

[Garys]

IIRC That a license maybe issued by the town in which one has a business or employed. So they would not have to get one from the town in which they live. Why do you think Quincy is expediting them? Because they are the ones issuing them.

My understanding based on a friend's looking into it because he lives in a red town, was that it must be a business owner, not merely an employee. I've never read that part of the law, so he and I might be wrong. Of course, based on LenS's answer, it's moot anyway.

 

[terraformer]

I would be worried if I was the one guy who may not be able to get an LTC (or may be facing charges), because that's the guy who is at risk right now. This wholesale suspension doesn't happen normally. It's being pushed by something or someone's circumstances who they want to dump.

 

[RadiCS]

I really hope this is an eye opener for them to see how f'ed up mass laws are...

 

[Len-2A Training]

My understanding based on a friend's looking into it because he lives in a red town, was that it must be a business owner, not merely an employee. I've never read that part of the law, so he and I might be wrong. Of course, based on LenS's answer, it's moot anyway.

Gary, you understand it right. Must be a business owner, not a mere employee. However, there is an exception to that for LEOs, allowing agency that employs them to issue the LTC as well as their town of residence.

 

[joeendris]

Expired permit is not a felony, it's a $500 fine. No permit is a felony.

IIRC, it's a civil fine?

 

[In God We Trust]

I'm confused. Couldn't they just carry on their badge? So why put them on leave?

Legally, yes they can, but the department policy is that they need to have an LTC. No actual crime was committed, but they are being hosed administratively.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[milktree]

20 Quincy officers put on leave for expired gun licenses

20 Quincy Police Officers put on leave for expired LTCs.

The most infuriating part is that it'll probably be only for a few days because the FRB is rushing through their renewals.


20 Quincy officers put on leave for expired gun licenses - Quincy, MA - The Patriot Ledger


There's an actual law saying our LTCs need to be approved or denied in 40 days, and very, very few towns can get that right. Clearly Quincy doesn't have this problem for their own, right?

 

[Pilgrim]

are expected to get their licenses renewed and be eligible to return to work in the next four days, Dougan said.

How do we get ours in 4 days?

 

[M1911]

Legally, yes they can, but the department policy is that they need to have an LTC. No actual crime was committed, but they are being hosed administratively.[/COLOR]

The question is why are they being hosed? I suppose it is possible that someone in charge is looking to screw one particular officer. Or perhaps this better explains the mindset: Prison Planet.com » Police Officer: ?My life as a tyrant?

 

[LTCRN]

LEO's are special people tho....

Who wants to wager that they receive their new licenses in two weeks or less? And yes the turn around time can be that quick depending on "who you know."

 

[Sniper (+)]

Who wants to wager that they receive their new licenses in two weeks or less? And yes the turn around time can be that quick depending on "who you know."

Iit'll be less then that. My mother-in-law got hers in about a week in one of those hilltowns in w.mass and she's just your average person. Delays are caused by nothing more then PD's not in the mood to actually do the couple minutes of work.

 

[NickyBangBang]

Two weeks or less, the hotties on Fox news said they'll get their permits at the end of the week. As for the rest of us, 6 month wait.