Q Honey Badger Pistol is an SBR... Your Brace is Next!

[whatluck]

 

[PappyM3]

Wow, that looks identical to my Sig MCX pistol
Was shooting in Utah last week, some kid came up to me and said "dont let the sheriff see you putting that brace on your shoulder "
He says once the brace touches your shoulder it's now an SBR...........

That was true at one point, but the ATF changed their position on that years ago. Shouldering braces has been fine for a while.

 

[Reptile]

Lol, but no. They had a hair up their ass.

Probably because there is no approval letter for that brace/pistol.

The ATF tends to get hemmrhoid flare ups when someone "gets cute" with something like that. Same thing happened to the Aikins accelerator.

The worst this does possibly is threaten the viability of those weird expensive collapsible braces. Maybe Kevin_NH is onto something with the LOP, too.

Gotta love it though when ATF shits on something without being specific. But that is typical.

ETA: I honestly think they only allowed braces to begin with to forestall a federal lawsuit being filed over the excessive form 1 processing time.... legalizing braces back then bought them a reprieve. (this is going way back, when e-file was way shittier than it is now. )

But if these braces become illegal and you want a similar look - I think you have to get the actual stock version and SBR it.

Is that correct?

 

[PappyM3]

It appears the ATF thinks Q was designing it to be fired from the shoulder, along with the Sugar Weasel and Mini-Fix. The scary thing about the Sugar Weasel statement is that it uses the SBA3. They say they are not classifying the Sugar Weasel without a physical sample, but if they did, they would have much father reaching implications than the proprietary honey badger.

 

[drgrant]

Well, maybe if people would stop writing them for a letter of clarification we wouldn't be seeing this kind of
shit as often.

That's not what caused this, though, unless people have more intel.

 

[PappyM3]

That's not what caused this, though, unless people have more intel.

Pure speculation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Kevin Brittingham pissed off the wrong person. He drives innovation, but he’s also a boisterous a**h***.

... or the ATF are just being their usual bipolar selves.

 

[drgrant]

But if these braces become illegal and you want a similar look - I think you have to get the actual stock version and SBR it.

Is that correct?

Good luck figuring that out.

 

[LoginName]

Good luck figuring that out.

Write a letter to the ATF asking for clarification.

 

[Reptile]

Good luck figuring that out.

I don't think you have to figure it out.

Just get the lower.

SBR it.

Put on a short stock that is not an arm brace.

 

[drgrant]

I don't think you have to figure it out.

Just get the lower.

SBR it.

Put on a short stock that is not an arm brace.

Lol, yes, if you’re into being afraid of your own shadow over something which might not even be a problem.

 

[Davidk]

Defund ATF - had to say it

 

[NH_Realtor]

No. The letter was issued 3 August. In the first line: "On 3 August 2020, the ATF issued Q a formal Cease and Desist letter..."

They've had this in hand for over 2 months.

I liken Q to that hot crazy eyed ex gf... they love the drama

but on a larger scale, this is stupid.

 

[groundscrapers]

So having a rifled barrel now classifies something as a rifle!
I guess a pistol with a rifled barrel is now a rifle.
Sweet, no more pistol permits required in MA anymore!
You can now buy a pistol with an FID card!
Thanks ATF!

they have to get into the weeds with this because franklin armory made their reFormation rifle with straight "rifling" and bypassed the NFA in the process.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Get f***ed.

 

[allen-1]

Anyone still wondering if they should have 80% lowers is behind the curve.

 

[SgtHal75]

https://www.liveqordie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Q-Honey-Badger-Pistol-Notification-10-06-2020-With-Links-1.pdf

Today the ATF issued a cease and desist to Q for selling the honey badger pistol, saying it's actually an SBR. This opens up quite a lot of questions as to what else the ATF is going to reclassify, especially considering matt goetz's unreturned letter.

I had a funny feeling they were going to do something

 

[bsaks]

suppose the noveske ghetto blaster is going to be in the same boat since q makes their brace...

 

[JRT]

suppose the noveske ghetto blaster is going to be in the same boat since q makes their brace...

SB Tactical makes the brace for both companies. The Sugar Weasel uses an SBA3 and the ATF states in the letter this is a concern to them. This is a huge issue, that brace is on probably a million pistols. f*** the tyrannical ATF.

 

[Admin]

Hmm... Looks a bit like your typical pistol brace

Maybe it's the extension feature?. The fed rules on this shit just need to go away forever. This flip flopping is getting old.

 

[nstassel]

I was looking at Q website to try to discern any reason why this would not apply to all braced ARs. I see Q even sells an adapter to adjust the length of pull for the brace. Come on, that really rubs it in ATFs face.

This was a razor thin legality that proliferated tremendously. I'm sure ATF was dying for an excuse to push back. However since they approved braces this seems arbitrary.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

This is all BS and I think the ATF has no idea what it's doing anymore (or ever), but I do wonder what it was with this proprietary design that they made this seemingly arbitrary distinction. Is it possible that because this "Honeybadger" stock has a cheek weld cover that stays put in a position that would suggest shouldering use that they are calling it out? Most other collapsing pistol braces just have exposed buffer tubes or just dual rails. Sure, you still mash your face up against those too, but there's no "put your face here while shouldering" cover. Just a shot in the dark. Who knows with the ATF. They admit themselves that their rulings can come down to completely arbitrary things, including marketing.

 

[PappyM3]

Maybe it's the extension feature?. The fed rules on this shit just need to go away forever. This flip flopping is getting old.

It seems to purely be that they think the intent is to be shouldered. More concerning is that they also think the same thing if the Sugar Weasel with the SBA3. Though, they could make a ruling in the Sugar Weasel specifically and not the SBA3 due to their inclusion of the advertising.


“ The objective design features of the honey badger firearm, configured with the subject stabilizing brace, indicate the firearm is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder.
....
Further, you market the Sugar Weasel and Mini Fix on your website ... The objective design features described in your advertisement of the Sugar Weasel and Mini Fix include a “pistol stabilizing brace” and a barrel shorter than 16 inches. Based on the product description on your website, the ATF believes these firearms are designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder. ... Please note FATD makes firearm classifications on the physical sample of firearms received and this is not an official classification.”

 

[Dennis in MA]

This is all BS and I think the ATF has no idea what it's doing anymore (or ever), but I do wonder what it was with this proprietary design that they made this seemingly arbitrary distinction. Is it possible that because this "Honeybadger" stock has a cheek weld cover that stays put in a position that would suggest shouldering use that they are calling it out? Most other collapsing pistol braces just have exposed buffer tubes or just dual rails. Sure, you still mash your face up against those too, but there's no "put your face here while shouldering" cover. Just a shot in the dark. Who knows with the ATF. They admit themselves that their rulings can come down to completely arbitrary things, including marketing.

That was the first thing I noticed when I saw the first pix of this last night. "Oh, that cheek-weld area is going to give them problems."

 

[Asaltweapon]

My nephew has the Sugar Weasel along with a Q can. It's a lot of fun.

 

[PappyM3]

...This was a razor thin legality that proliferated tremendously. I'm sure ATF was dying for an excuse to push back. However since they approved braces this seems arbitrary.

Sig did an amazing job pushing for the brace ruling. They’re so proliferated now that the ATF would face serious backlash if they flipped on commonly owned braces. Doesn’t mean they won’t do it if course

 

[Lank]

Maybe it's the extension feature?. The fed rules on this shit just need to go away forever. This flip flopping is getting old.

Is that the thing that goes, up?

 

[teamRR]

Anyone still wondering if they should have 80% lowers is behind the curve.

Haha good statement for the Swallowswell confiscation thread but isn't pertinent here. Build an 80% or 100% thing the feds call an SBR, skip the paperwork, and you still got problems if you somehow get caught.

 

[AHM]

Is that the thing that goes, up?

Nah, you're thinking of this.
ETA: An easy mistake to make.

 

[allen-1]

A friend of mine works for Daniel Defense. He designed their 300 Blackout PDW - which is selling in phenomenal numbers. It has an arm brace made by Maxim.

Compact and easy to transport, the Daniel Defense DDM4 PDW is the kind of pistol you can rely on for home and personal defense…plus it’s a ton of fun to shoot. The 7" 300BLK cold hammer forged barrel keeps subsonic loads subsonic and provides great ballistics for a shorter barrel. Featuring an overall length of 20.75", the DDM4 PDW easily fits into a backpack for convenient transport. The DDM4 PDW comes equipped with the Maxim Defense CQB Pistol Brace, which gives you the adjustments needed to more comfortably shoot your AR pistol. This highly maneuverable pistol comes with a 6" MFR XL flat front rail for fast handling, accuracy, and reliability while also providing compatibility with a wide variety of accessories. The DDM4 PDW features M-LOK attachment points and an SLR M-LOK MOD2 Plain Front Handstop to help ensure a safe shooting experience. Also available as SBR with Maxim Defense CQB Gen 7 stock.

DDM4® PDW (300 Blackout)

Compact and easy to transport, the DDM4 PDW is the kind of AR15 style pistol you can rely on for home and personal defense...plus it's a ton of fun to shoot. The 7 inch 300 Blackout Cold Hammer Forged barrel keeps subsonic loads subsonic and provides great ballistics for a shorter barrel. The...

danieldefense.com

Maxim CQB Pistol: Gen 6 – PDW Brace for AR15 – Maxim Defense

www.maximdefense.com

I have the SB Tactical version of the same arm brace.

SBPDW™ | SB Tactical

SB Tactical SBPDW™. We design, develop and manufacture accessories for firearms including the original pistol stabilization brace.

www.sb-tactical.com

 

[JRT]

I was looking at Q website to try to discern any reason why this would not apply to all braced ARs. I see Q even sells an adapter to adjust the length of pull for the brace. Come on, that really rubs it in ATFs face.

This was a razor thin legality that proliferated tremendously. I'm sure ATF was dying for an excuse to push back. However since they approved braces this seems arbitrary.

The extension only works on the Fix and the Mini-Fix and only if you have a stock on the Mini-Fix. The extension can not be fitted to any Q brace.