Pulled over, asked about LTC

[djo]

Mass state law does not require notification when stopped, so there is no legal reason to do so. And as mentioned above; if you do volunteer the info, it may get you some unwanted attention.

Lets remember that many LEO do not know MA state law re: firearms. This guy could have thought civilians need to declare when they are carrying and was looking to chew him out for not doing so.

Either way, strange for him to ask at that point in time. I'm only volunteering that information if I am asked to get out of the car.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

I live in a free state so i guess i dont really know what i am talking about but if a handgun falls out of the glove box wouldnt you be in violation of the law in Mass anyway regarding the "in your direct control" issue? Seems like it would be moot...if it is concealed, you have a license to carry and the police contact has nothing to do with the gun...what does it matter? I frequently have tools in my car that i could hurt him with...should i disclose i am carrying a hammer?

Op Sorry for the off topic post

amcaloon buddy it's been months, where you been, i still have your tannerite. you haven't answered my pm's and now your box is full (no i didn't fill it) forcing me to post here. Do you still want it? if your having a problem meeting up i can try to bring it to you, meet up with someone who knows you at the TVI shoot June 19Th, or something. PLEASE Let me know what you want to do. this will be my last attempt to make this happen. thanks

 

[ericcif]

Not by a LAW ABIDING citizen carrying his LEGALLY permitted firearm in a LEGAL manner.

And if a LEO walks up to your car after a traffic stop and notices a firearm he knows you are a law abiding/legally carrying citzen on the spot how?

 

[cockpitbob]

I'm a little worried about Scrivener. There's so much fodder for him in this thread that I would expected him to have had a field day with several of the posts by now. I hope he's feeling OK.

 

[Half Cocked]

I thought it was clear I was ranting at how a good night turned shitty.

Which if I read correctly was your own fault since you were speeding and passed a car. But whatever... let's ignore some personal responsibility.

Are you sure on this? I have several good SP friends and was under the impression it came up, and the next query would show what guns you have purchased/transferred.

Partly correct...Depending upon the software of the particular agency the LTC status does come up on the first screen. The way the MSP runs vehicles from the laptop it does come up. The purchased/transferred has to be specifically queried and searched which is not something that is routinely done.

 

[Half Cocked]

I'm not really sure what the fascination with looking up an LTC would be, though... if I was a LEO I would be more concerned about the people who don't have licenses.

-Mike

I agree but I also do not think there is any fascination in looking up LTC info as I stated it is right there in front of the LEO when he runs the plate/license. No different than if the person was a sex offender/ had a restraining order/ criminal record/ warrants etc...

 

[cb1]

Is someone who is illegally carrying a firearm going to disclose that to an LEO? No, so why should I when I'm completely within my rights? Should I have my medical records and tax returns prepared for him as well? Those documents are as accurate as my LTC in indicating my likelihood of committing a violent act.

 

[s4mt3k]

If I may say something. It sounds like the issue of whether or not to tell a cop about your LTC & CCW has been beat to death (judging from some of the comments). As far as the law is concerned, we are not required to disclose anything. Now how you feel about disclosing is totally personal and seems to have random effects on LEOs. You guys are never going to come to an agreement so you should probably let it be.

I was just wondering why he would ask me about it specifically after the fact.

If I have stepped out of line being a newer (and probably younger) member of this forum I apologize. I just see you guys going back and forth to no end.

 

[Half Cocked]

Is someone who is illegally carrying a firearm going to disclose that to an LEO?

You would be surprised. It happens.

so why should I when I'm completely within my rights?

Many times an LEO when dealing with someone will ask a random completely innocent question of the person to which the LEO already knows the answer to. An LEO does this to gauge the attitude/truthfulness of the person he is dealing with. It is a "gut check" of sorts for the LEO. Sometimes they will see that the person has an RO outstanding against them from Sally Smith and the LEO (Who does not know Sally Smith from a hole in the wall) will ask "Hey, are you still with Sally Smith?" just to see what the reaction is.

The reaction can tell you a lot about someone including if they are even the person that they say they are.

If they get a response such as "Who is Sally Smith... I don't know Sally Smith" or "What is an LTC... I don't have an LTC" .... Then maybe the person is not the same person whose information is on the license...... and could be a fake/fraudulent ID.

The OP answered the innocent question honestly and the LEO sent him on his way no questions asked............... move along.

 

[Half Cocked]

I was just wondering why he would ask me about it specifically after the fact.

See above

 

[drgrant]

I agree but I also do not think there is any fascination in looking up LTC info as I stated it is right there in front of the LEO when he runs the plate/license. No different than if the person was a sex offender/ had a restraining order/ criminal record/ warrants etc...

So there are now agencies in MA where this info comes up -automatically- ?

I wasn't aware of that. Those I've spoken to always said in order to get LTC info they always had
to run some other kind of inquiry. I guess it all depends on the type of system they have.

-Mike

 

[Half Cocked]

So there are now agencies in MA where this info comes up -automatically- ?

-Mike

Yes.... it depends on the software that they have.

 

[Rico]

I agree but I also do not think there is any fascination in looking up LTC info as I stated it is right there in front of the LEO when he runs the plate/license. No different than if the person was a sex offender/ had a restraining order/ criminal record/ warrants etc...

So someone having a LTC is no different than someone who is a sex offender/has a restraining order or criminal record?

 

[Half Cocked]

So someone having a LTC is no different than someone who is a sex offender/has a restraining order or criminal record?

No different in the sense that they are some of the CJIS/CHSB/NCIC databases that show up when a registration/license query is conducted.

 

[M1911]

My guess is because you should notify an officer that you are carrying when pulled over, he was checking to see if you failed to mention it. Just a guess.

There is no requirement in MA to notify an officer if you are carrying.

 

[M1911]

Seriously? you don't feel a LEO has any business knowing if someone he pulls over has a firearm?

Here in MA:

1) the law does not require me to tell him.

2) I've known people who told the officer they were carrying and then wound up facing the wrong end of a .40 Glock, were dragged out of their car, proned out on pavement, disarmed, cuffed, and stuffed into the back of the cruiser for ~1 hour. Eventually, they were given their traffic citation, their gun, and let free.

3) A friend of mine is an ICE agent. He knows another ICE agent and an FBI agent who were off duty when they were stopped by MA State Police in routine traffic stops. They identified themselves as federal agents and showed their badge and ID to the statie. The statie then told them that their federal badge did not allow them to carry concealed and wanted to disarm them. They spent about an hour on the side of the road until the statie's supervisor straightened him out. Note: I'm not implying that this is SOP for the MA State Police. I suspect it was just one particular Statie who was either a) ignorant, b) testosterone-poisoned, or c) both.

Some officers dont like to be surprised when you open your glove compartment to get a registration and a handgun falls out they werent execpting. I dont understand the big deal in letting the officer know you have a firearm in advance to avoid him being surprised. I was taught that by my uncle who was a LEO in MA, which is where I grew up.

I don't keep a gun in my glove compartment and I can retrieve my license and registration without displaying my gun. As for why is it a big deal in MA, see above.

If an officer tells me to get out of my car, then he is likely going to frisk me. At that point, I will tell him: "Certainly, officer. However, I have a license to carry and I am carrying now. How would you like to proceed."

But if he doesn't tell me to get out of the car, then I'm not volunteering unless I'm in a jurisdiction that requires it.

And if a LEO walks up to your car after a traffic stop and notices a firearm he knows you are a law abiding/legally carrying citzen on the spot how?

He won't notice it. I'm carrying concealed.

 

[goofycj7]

There is no requirement in MA to notify an officer if you are carrying.

And if you are carrying, you have a LTC as the officer already knows from the database.

 

[drgrant]

And if you are carrying, you have a LTC as the officer already knows from the database.

Not necessarily. It depends on who pulls you over, and who checks your information, as is discussed above. This might be universal for MSP, but smaller local city/town PDs may or may not have this capability, or it is done in such a way that the LTC data isn't retrieved simultaneously.

-Mike

 

[Half Cocked]

I was just wondering why he would ask me about it specifically after the fact.

Maybe the LEO is a member here who wanted to see how many pages of nothing this stop could turn into.

 

[BradM]

And if a LEO walks up to your car after a traffic stop and notices a firearm he knows you are a law abiding/legally carrying citzen on the spot how?

If he notices it then it isn't a CONCEALED weapon then is it?

Ok, I'm done feeding the troll.

 

[Scrivener]

Some officers dont like to be surprised when you open your glove compartment to get a registration and a handgun falls out they werent execpting. I dont understand the big deal in letting the officer know you have a firearm in advance to avoid him being surprised. I was taught that by my uncle who was a LEO in MA, which is where I grew up.

Only a moron would keep a handgun in the glovebox. Your scenario is just one of the more glaring reasons why.

It's too far away to be handy for the driver, while right where thieves - and cops - start looking when they search a vehicle.

The fact that such transport is legal in some states doesn't make it any less ill-considered.

 

[Bob P]

Only a moron would keep a handgun in the glovebox. Your scenario is just one of the more glaring reasons why.

It's too far away to be handy for the driver, while right where thieves - and cops - start looking when they search a vehicle.

The fact that such transport is legal in some states doesn't make it any less ill-considered.

I think we need to start asking you some of those questions we already know the answers to that Half Cocked was talking about - because that was a WAY mild response for the degree of innanity presented! Who are you and how did you get Scrivner's ID?!!

 

[StephenR]

What about answering the question the LEO asked?

If the officer asks if he is carrying, must he answer the question? I understand that the law states we do not need to voluntarily notify the officer that we are carrying before asked, but what is THE LAW when asked? I am not really interested in what "you" would do, but does the law state that we must answer that question or is it something they have no grounds to receive a yes or no answer? The same way that we technically do not need to tell them where we are "headed," but its probably easier to truthfully answer the question. This is not a question about being a jerk or looking for problems with authority, simply the law. Thanks.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I can just see it now. "Yes, officer. I have one on my hip, one in my ankle holster, two in the console with some spare mags and in the back I have five machine guns, some sound suppressors, a suppressed shotgun and lots of hi-cap mags and ammo. You can look at them if you want, but you can't play with them". Jack.

 

[M1911]

If the officer asks if he is carrying, must he answer the question? I understand that the law states we do not need to voluntarily notify the officer that we are carrying before asked, but what is THE LAW when asked? I am not really interested in what "you" would do, but does the law state that we must answer that question or is it something they have no grounds to receive a yes or no answer? The same way that we technically do not need to tell them where we are "headed," but its probably easier to truthfully answer the question. This is not a question about being a jerk or looking for problems with authority, simply the law. Thanks.

If a police officer asks to see your LTC or FID, you must show it to them, per MGL Chapter 140 Section 129C, which reads, in part:

Any person who, while not being within the limits of his own property or residence, or such person whose property or residence is under lawful search, and who is not exempt under this section, shall on demand of a police officer or other law enforcement officer, exhibit his license to carry firearms, or his firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or, after January first, nineteen hundred and seventy, exhibit a valid hunting license issued to him which shall bear the number officially inscribed of such license to carry or card if any.

Full text here: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm

But that wasn't quite your question. I'm not aware of any law in MA that requires you to answer if an officer asks if you are carrying a gun.

 

[MXD]

My dad always told me, "a good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't already know the answer to". IMHO, and again, its just my OPINION, if I'm asked about something I will either refuse to answer or answer truthfully. Because if the person asking knows the truth and you lie......get ready. In order of what can cause you the most trouble it would have to go lie, refusal and truth.

Under normal circumstances I would never say a word. I got pulled over about a year ago at 2 am giving a drunk friend a ride home. I was 100% sober. I knew I was going to get a sobriety test since my truck stunk so I decided to disclose it prior to being frisked. Its probably a case by case decision.

 

[Blitz1]

Maybe the LEO is a member here who wanted to see how many pages of nothing this stop could turn into.

It was you wasn't it?

 

[Admin]

I'm simply pulling this train up to the station before it gets ugly.