pre 1899

[Rate_of_Twist]

Not required but also not dumb.

Trying to teach sales associates "exceptions" is just begging for mistakes.

Doing the same thing the same way every time you do it, makes it harder to make a mistake.

Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.

Nope, still dumb. If the "sales associate " cant understand the most basic record keeping than they probably belong working at DD. Further when it was discovered it was an antique it should have been logged out of the A&D

 

[namedpipes]

Nope, still dumb. If the "sales associate " cant understand the most basic record keeping than they probably belong working at DD. Further when it was discovered it was an antique it should have been logged out of the A&D

Going to go through a lot of clerks then ...

You can't fight human nature.

Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.

 

[JNewell]

The counter clerk wouldn't ever make that call. The guy(s) who run the bound book ID the gun when the dealer takes it in. From there on, it's just a question of following the directions. If the counter staff can't do that, they should be doing something else with a MUCH lower skill set requirement. Honestly, if this is a problem, they shouldn't be allowed near an FA-10. Are they going to check the wrong box for "high capacity," for example? - something I've seen done, both ways, several times.

 

[namedpipes]

So abolish the requirement to log firearm transfers at all, regardless of to or from whom.

Griping that some shops choose to document more than they *must* is just silly. Their shop, their rules.

Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.

 

[SalemCat]

Another interesting thing about Antiques is, if they are not Legal Firearms, shouldn't they exempt from the Storage Laws ? Might it be perfectly legal to keep a loaded, unsecured Antique under your pillow ?

At least that's what I'd have my Lawyer argue.

As a practical matter, a loaded 1882 S&W .38 in the hands of a child can kill just as effectively as a modern Glock, so common sense should be followed.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Just a few of the most popular ones are:

CZ-82 Handgun - mine is an 1987. These are really recent C&R's.
P-64 Handgun - many date from the late 60's, even early 70's
SKS Rifle - most, but perhaps not all, are 50+ years old. Still, some, especially the Yugoslavian 59/66A1 models, may enter the 1970's

The nice thing about the ATF and C&R's is the 50-year-old requirement floats - each year more firearms become C&R.

Whereas the pre-1899 Antique Date is fixed. Will it still be pre-1899 in the year 2100 ? (If we even have an America then, which is doubtful.)

How is a 1987 CZ a C+R??

 

[SalemCat]

How is a 1987 CZ a C+R??

The ATF says so.

Publications - Firearms - Curios or Relics List - Update May 2006 through December 2007 | ATF

I don't know anyone who has asked the ATF to classify a fairly recent firearm as a C&R, but they have a Form that anyone can fill out and request a re-classification. I suppose unless you are a Historian they would deny you.

I don't know of any C&R's that are more recent than a CZ-82, but there may be some.

Sadly, the CZ-83, the Civilian Version of the CZ-82, is not C&R. And not on any Mass List. So it is difficult to acquire. But if you're a C&R CZ-82's are plentiful.

 

[SalemCat]

Another twist on C&R's is this, from the ATF Web Site " Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. "

They will allow the addition of a Scope, but NOT a substanially different Stock, e.i., replacing an original Wooden Stock with a Plastic one.

A Plastic Stock does not make the weapon illegal, it just loses it's C&R status and benefits.

I would expect changing the finish on a C&R Handgun would not change its status, but I've not seen that addressed in any ATF literature. If they wanted to be nasty they could claim changing the Grips on a Handgun would change its status. Haven't seen them do that, but I'd hold onto the originals just in case.

The ATF Web Site is so much easier to navigate than the State of Mass Site. Trying to find anything on the State Site is a nightmare.

 

[SalemCat]

The ATF states that a REPLICA of an Antique is considered an Antique - IF - it "uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade"

Wouldn't it be nice it the ATF published a LIST of this AMMO ? I hate making judgement calls.

 

[JNewell]

The ATF states that a REPLICA of an Antique is considered an Antique - IF - it "uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade"

Wouldn't it be nice it the ATF published a LIST of this AMMO ? I hate making judgement calls.

If you did a Venn diagram showing the overlap of everything that is in that category with everything you'd ever want to own and shoot, you'd probably not even get tangential contact...

 

[SalemCat]

Isn't pretty much all ammo "not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade" in Obama's America ?