PLEASE TURN IN ALL FIREARMS!

[drgrant]

Since the SCOTUS will be ruling in our favor in June, there will NEVER be an outright total gun ban in the U.S. period.

"Yeah, you'd think that, but there's something about these horse pills... you
take four of em and, that yellow gateway over there opens for the... democrats."

Well, not quite, but you get the idea. There still is a wallhack to anything
constitutional, and that is, in the long haul they could simply change the
constitution by a 2/3rds vote. However unlikely that is in our lifetime, it
still remains a wallhack.

Never say never. Unless we have a gulag to send them to, the antis will not
be going away. Even if it is a sweeping victory we must remain vigilant against the vile scum that seek to deprive us of our freedom.

-Mike

 

[clinotus]

I don't think that N.O. is representative of how it would happen. The people who have guns taken were under extreme duress, unprepared to resist and unable to given the larger circumstances.

If a ban were enforced during an otherwise peaceful moment, I believe you'd see more resistance along the lines of what you've read so far.

Not sure I can agree with this statement, any time that a local or federal government declares it to be a time of interest will allow them to carry out raids of the effect that were done in N.O.

Flooding in the area? <--> We need to stem looting by all individuals with arms in the interest of public safety.

Fires in the area  <--> We went door to door in areas with high gun ownership to ensure that ammunition was being stored safely in the interests of public safety.

Your rights < Public safety.

You don’t need much to create a situation that will allow someone with authority somewhere to use a pen to further erode your rights. Its just the manner presented. Threaten to beat the snot of the school bus driver who touched your kid? Domestic Terrorism since you ‘terrorized’ a school bus full of kids.

Anyhow, what I’m saying is that the N.O. confiscations were not a unique event, it just happened to be reported on a larger scale because it happened to so many people with such abandon and so quickly that it wasn’t until later that the media and people started to complain about it. Some other states went so far as to pass laws restricting the process.

But what about Joe Smith who is now a Domestic Terrorist and on the no fly list?

People get disarmed every day and the people doing so are not always dressed in all black.

So handing arms in or not handing arms in, the question is HOW will you hand your arms in? Will you hand them over with your manuals and get a good citizen card? Will you figuratively ‘hand’ them over after the Coroner takes them from your hand? Will you hand out your arms to other people to defend and refresh the tree?

 

[drumenigma]

Quite simply a government should fear it's people, it should not be the other way around. The people need the tools to resist that which they do not agree with. We live in a democracy which is supposed to mirror the will of the people. So if they take our guns they take a major tool away from us that makes the government afraid. The sheeple who just sit idly while the government takes over their lives do not deserve to call themselves Americans. That's what being an American is, it's about voicing your opinion and telling the government what YOU want.

For those of you who haven't read it, go and read the Turner Diaries. Just be ready to look past a lot of the racist overtones. But it really is a "how to" book on running a revolution and overthrowing the government.

 

[TomH]

Since the SCOTUS will be ruling in our favor in June, there will NEVER be an outright total gun ban in the U.S. period. The real question is, supposing the decision is favorable but still allows for the status quo (MA, CA, NY, Jersey laws) to spread, how much more of this shit will all of us take. IMO, this country is far beyond repair by "working within the system". I like this quote as it sums up my sentiments:

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." — Claire Wolfe 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution (1996)

If it is too early, not by much....

A SCOTUS decision in favor of individual ownership will help to a good degree. If they go farther and say individual gun ownership for the purpose of defending one's rights against anyone, including our own government then we would be a lot better off. Wouldn't hold my breath on that one though.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Fsorrent ---Thank you for posting this question

 

[drgrant]

Further, are we going to shoot it out with fellow Americans? Billy, the neighbor's kid, now a rookie cop, or an 18 year old guardsman, trying to pay his way through college? Are we going to shoot these people?

If they're smart enough maybe they'll figure out that what they're doing is wrong and turn in their badge, gun, etc, before they get too caught up in raping someones civil rights. I am really hoping that someone in power eventually values their personal integrity and obedience to the true law of the land (the constitution) and ends up shooting the dumb bastard who gives the illegal order, instead of carrying it out. That certainly would
make the whole scenario a lot simpler.

Will they shoot us? Do we accept that to resist that day will require shooting, and shooting will lead to (your) death?

If people are going to use deadly force to steal your lawfully owned property, you would have to expect that, yes, they would be willing to kill you. You don't march up to the door of someones house with a battering ram expecting the homeowner to serve you with some tea when you get inside.

you need to fetch your already-loaded weapons and say goodbye to your family because you can't possibly believe that, after a protracted gun battle, "they" will just go away...

It's a lot to consider. It's fundamentally loose-loose.

Depending on the situation at hand its a matter of competing harms. IMO being forcefully stripped of arms is pretty close to being enslaved- or even if you're not being sent off to an oven immediately, it's almost like they're getting you ready for it.

My only point is that the highest ROI (return on investment) in violent resistance, may not come on "day-one" with the grabber's at your front door, but may in fact, be achieved on a later day, when you've had time to prepare in the myriad ways necessary.

Agreed. Or better yet, even BEFORE all that comes to a head. Spending ones own time to recruit pro gun folks, etc, is cheaper than having to pay for something in blood.

One other possibility nobody wants to think about is that... what if the mysterious black vans simply never show up? In AU, for instance, I doubt they went house to house collecting guns, even if they knew that many people didn't turn them in. The government probably decided that was too expensive politically and just figured they would eventually win by attrition. (eventually, the owners would die, and then the "banned" guns get passed onto family, etc, who may decide the guns were a "liability" and just give them to police, etc. )

A large part of me thinks that antis would operate methodically and indirectly. Using incrementalism, culture, and attrition is a lot "cleaner" for them politically. Freedom haters and antis are like undetected cancer. By the time you actually -feel- something bad happening to your body, it's already spread all over and you're basically toast. That's how those people like to operate.

-Mike

 

[Gundog]

Ammo sniffing dogs. (ok I made up the ammo sniffing dogs)

You may have made it up, but they do in fact exist. My sister in-law is a K-9 officer and her dog excels at finding guns and ammo.

I see a revolution in our future...

 

[Snapshot]

Further, are we going to shoot it out with fellow Americans? Billy, the neighbor's kid, now a rookie cop, or an 18 year old guardsman, trying to pay his way through college? Are we going to shoot these people?

You talk of them like they're boy scouts.

Not to use the tired old "Nazi" analogy but Hitler wasn't the REAL enemy. The real enemy was all the guys with guns who did what Hitler told them to do. Without them, Hitler was just some loud mouthed jerk with a funny mustache.

 

[goingback5]

Alot of the gun confiscation in N.O. happened on dry land far away from the floods.If you ask me its was more of a drill for the government to see how it would go if it ever comes to that.

p.s.If you you look at hitlers gun act of 1938 it is almost a verbatim transcript of the 1968 usa gun control act, a disarmed public is alot easier to control

 

[theGringo]

"Guns? We ain't got no guns. We don't need no guns. I don't have to give you any stinking guns!"

I love that photo!

 

[gene]

People did see what happened after NO and thats why almost every state that has voted so far has voted to not let it happen again.

MA is considering now a cofiscation bill right now and we need to make sure we lend it our support. If it becomes law, you won't see them in a hurry to pull another Katrina.

 

[pmb44]

Now to play devils advocate here, I have to say some if not most of these post about fighitng to the death are probably BS and posturing "in front of the boys". Im know there are some here who would make the last stand, but I think most here would hide them and either work for a legal solution or work with the "resistance. But I strongly doubt the people talking about going out in a "hail of bullets" will be able to pull the trigger when the time comes. I have BTDT and when the bullets start flying all the "talk" goes out the window.

 

[squirt]

for those of you that say "GIVE EM HELL" remember that you would be firing back against soldiers that right now are fighting and dying because they are following orders.

I say go underground and slowly mount a revolution that may take years but it least you would not be taking out someone that is just following the orders or some dumb ass politician.

 

[Raoul Duke]

You talk of them like they're boy scouts.

hmmm...I certainly agree that the "average" Nazi was "the problem," to a large degree.

However,

I didn't mean to suggest that you shouldn't take up arms against the "Boy Scouts," I simply believe you'll find it more difficult than you might imagine.

 

[theGringo]

Now to play devils advocate here, I have to say some if not most of these post about fighitng to the death are probably BS and posturing "in front of the boys". Im know there are some here who would make the last stand, but I think most here would hide them and either work for a legal solution or work with the "resistance. But I strongly doubt the people talking about going out in a "hail of bullets" will be able to pull the trigger when the time comes. I have BTDT and when the bullets start flying all the "talk" goes out the window.

I think pmb44 is correct here. There's a lot of tough talk in this thread about standing one's ground and doing the "patriotic" thing. I just don't see that happening. We haven't gotten to the point we're at in this country without the tacit consent of the public, including us, the gun owning public.

With every new law and restriction that has come down the pipe, we have stood by and taken our lumps. We have agreed to grind off our bayonet lugs, and we scour the countryside for pre-ban magazines.

We've dutifully complied with all federal, state and local laws and we boast of our law-abidingness here on the pages of this forum. We have signed out Form 4473s and submitted our FA-10s. We chastise others who suggest that they would not do the same.

We are the proverbial frog in the sauce pan, now about two-thirds boiled. But we only complain that the water's getting warm.

If outright confiscation should one day come to Massachusetts, and elsewhere, it will not come in the form of a jackbooted thug kicking down our door and menacing our grandmother with an automatic rifle. At least not at first. Confiscation will come in the form of a bland bureaucratic order that all black rifles of a certain make and model are now deemed illegal and must now be destroyed, turned in, or sold out of state. A deadline for compliance will be made public.

Owners of said weapons may be notified in writing on the basis of existing registration documents. Or they may be left wondering whether the government knows what they have. Do they have the 4473s, the FA-10s?

When the knock on the door comes and you say your guns were lost in a fishing accident, you'll be subject to arrest for failure to report lost or theft.

No one will bury guns in the back yard, much less scatter metal shavings around the back forty to thwart the agents of the law. No one will mount an armed resistance to a search warrant served on their property. No one will die gloriously in a hail of federal gunfire.

Well, maybe a few will. And they will be soon forgotten by the RKBA community.

Someone mentioned Carl Drega. What about Linda Hamilton, up in North Adams? She waited for the rallying cry to be sounded and for rescue to come from the RKBA community. And she couldn't even rustle up a few bucks to defray legal costs. So she got railroaded, lost her case and committed suicide. Where were the "patriots" then?

I've spoken here before about Waco and Ruby Ridge. These things happened, they were state-sponsored atrocities, and were allowed to stand. Who, born after 1980 or so even remembers?

I hope that DC v. Heller will be successful and will start to turn the tide back toward the intent of the Second Amendment and the enforcement of our constitutional rights. But that's just one battle in a long war, a war which we have been losing since at least the Sullivan Act and NFA34.

With the growing movement toward internationalization, regional economies, and increasing encroachments on US sovereignty, how much longer will our Constitution even be recognized as the law of the land?

Tough talk. That's a lot of what I read here. When you have to choose between everything you have; your life, family, home, job ... and armed resistance against a tyrannical power, how many will choose to fight?

[sad2]

 

[GrendelKhan]

That said, I ask you to follow the thought through. Who do you imagine will arrive that fateful day?

It's a lot to consider. It's fundamentally loose-loose.

I imagine Blackwater will arrive that fateful day. Americans yes, but neighbors? You're points are well taken, but I doubt the ones who will come will be asking these kind of moral questions. Good things to think about ahead of time, as one's decisions should be made well in advance.

As to the morality of the decision that must be made, something else to consider is what might they do the next time they come, after the citizenry has been disarmed.

Or maybe their international affiliate Greystone. Staffed with a labor force of a more global flavor...

The anniversary of the Kent State massacre is coming up. Something to consider about what's possible when the population becomes hyper-polarized. Like now...

...divided we fall...

 

[06LemansC6]

They would have a grand 'ole time on my street. Three houses in a row would erupt!! Would not be pretty! Live free or die MF! jp

I think .gov would have a very hard time getting NH to comply with such an order. Many of us in the free state own guns. I think you're in the minority if you don't. I love this state. If all the gun owners moved up here and abandoned MA, they would stop getting the LTC income, and wait until the loss of revenue from taxes, both property, and tax on the fact the MA gun shops would be forced north. I know I'm adding to it here, but this thread is nothing but shit talk anyways. We know an outright ban won't happen during our lives.

 

[BOBKATT]

I was talking about how they would come to get them. In NO it was fully armed door to door style stuff.

 

[theGringo]

I was talking about how they would come to get them. In NO it was fully armed door to door style stuff.

In that instance, a suitably armed man or woman should feel free to sluaghter the ba$tards and drag their sorry carcasses into the bayou.

 

[BOBKATT]

for those of you that say "GIVE EM HELL" remember that you would be firing back against soldiers that right now are fighting and dying because they are following orders.

I say go underground and slowly mount a revolution that may take years but it least you would not be taking out someone that is just following the orders or some dumb ass politician.

I don't care, no one is allowed to come into my house and take away my means of protecting my family when I have not committed any criminal act. I have lived in this state and payed taxes to it and to the federal government and as far as I'm concerned, any soul who comes through that door and threatens harm to my family or takes away our right of self preservation is going to die so long as I live.

Everyone has decisions to make, that someone who is just following orders can decide to do the right thing and join our side as well as he can choose to take the other. And again, I know the house will be surrounded and no matter how good of a shot I am I will never be able to win the fight alone but unless I have time to join up with some other patriots I will fight that fight alone and let what happens happen. But I will not be a slave and I will not allow myself to be a target for all the armed criminals who keep their guns as they do in Australia and England.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I know I'm adding to it here, but this thread is nothing but shit talk anyways. We know an outright ban won't happen during our lives.

You know this? Really? Dubious...

 

[lemonlime571]

Not be there. And have MY guns elsewhere.

 

[gene]

Well, all I can say is that I was born in this country. I fought for this country along with many of my own relatives. Some of which never came home. I have a son that is in the military today and I will say nothing more than I feel very strongly about the Constitution and the rights we as Americans have fought and died to preserve for hundreds of years. I refuse in any way, shape or form to make it easy for the government to erode my rights and I think that's the long and short of what most of us are saying. I/We are not traitors or enemies of the state. However, anyone that would erode the Bill of Rights IS.

I would not relish in the fact that I might have to defend the rights of all Americans by fighting our own troops. I would hope and pray that they see as I do that our Government could not be trusted to work in the best interest of it's people. I can tell you with all my heart that they would never disarm me in the manner if I had any way of preventing it that they did during Katrina. I feel sorrow for anyone that follows the politicians or the military beaucrats blindly. As a former soldier, I would always question any fight against Americans.

I have said all I should and god willing that day will never be forced upon the American people. I suspect that many of us that have spoken are far more determined to insure it never comes to that than other might imagine. Most of us inspite of what we say will probably hide our weapons until it becomes necessary for us to retrieve them. One way or the other, the government will have to "take them from our cold dead hands"!

 

[goodoldxelos]

violent overthrow of government would be in order... not that I'm advocating it... cough.

 

[clinotus]

Now to play devils advocate here, I have to say some if not most of these post about fighitng to the death are probably BS and posturing "in front of the boys". Im know there are some here who would make the last stand, but I think most here would hide them and either work for a legal solution or work with the "resistance. But I strongly doubt the people talking about going out in a "hail of bullets" will be able to pull the trigger when the time comes. I have BTDT and when the bullets start flying all the "talk" goes out the window.

Havent you been in the firearms 'fringe' community long enough not to clearly state your intentions in a public forum? Nor let everyone into your plans?

That being said, I think you would be rather surprised at the extremes ordinary people will go to in order not to be cast down, it just so happens on this subject a lot more people are willing to be Patriots and not arm chair amendment readers.

 

[Nashmack]

Providing this were to happen, improvised claymores are NOT that hard to make with household materials.

Offending gov't entities would have a rather large fiasco resulting from their inability to follow the constitution, which is the law of the land.

If the gov't in NH even attempted this, we could always invoke Article 10 of NH's constitution. (right to revolution)

 

[LR308_GNR]

Properly stowed.

 

[pmb44]

You need to stow that shit ASAP, this is a public forum and this is very bad juju and not something that would be helpful to the cause if it were to be printed in the Herald, or plastered on the 5 O'clock news.

Bad idea to shoot it out with the door-kickers, unless it's absolutely unavoidable, as in... given no time to prepare.

For myself, it's target practice on all politicians who support the gun-grab movement. This will bring change much faster than anything else possibly could. Unless they live on the moon, someone will reach out and touch them from far away.

Sitting in the state office near a window... splat!

Getting you mail... splat!

Giving a speach... splat!

Out to dinner with the wife... splat!

Motoring out of the harbor on your fancy boat for a little R&R at the vineyard... splat!


When multiples drop, day after day, things would change in a hurry.

 

[LR308_GNR]

You need to stow that shit ASAP, this is a public forum and this is very bad juju and not something that would be helpful to the cause if it were to be printed in the Herald, or plastered on the 5 O'clock news.

I suppose you are correct, though what I wrote was tame compared to what goes on throughout the web.

I can see some moonbat taking this whole thing out of context, failing to see we are talking about a fictitious situation where we wake up someday, to find we are criminals and our lives are being threatened by those we placed into office.

I do not salivate over the topic situation, matter of fact, it's second on the list of things I wish never happen... right behind falling into a wood chipper!

I pray to God our country never has to see this situation, but if it does and the fan is covered in feces, we need to be hard in our response. What I laid down was fast and effective, nothing more.

Sorry for bringing any disrespect to NES.

 

[squirt]

I don't know if this has been posted before but why don't we start doing more in our communities together. Especially as Massachusetts Gun owners should we not be doing more to show the communities in Massachusetts that we are not the dregs of society? Should we not show the citizens of this state that the elected politicians have it all wrong and are only helping the criminals with all of the draconian gun laws?

I say this because I have been part of several groups that do community work and it helps to change the negative stigma that is associated with any of those groups. I think that it is time that we stop being good little sheep and start showing society that as gun owners we/you are not a criminal.