Pistol found in backpack at daycare

enbloc

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Not a single one of those children at the Daycare center were in DANGER.

Why?

Mass triggers are required to be 10 #'s... for child safety *. [rofl2]

*If a 10# trigger isn't child proof... why is it the Law? And if it is child proof those kids weren't in "Danger"...
 
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Are u serious. ? Kids at a day care ? What are they like 2-3 years old u can’t be serious. This has to be one of the stupidest things I have read In a while
I'm very serious. Was it a kid who found it? Or an adult?

Any kid over the age of 2 should know the rules when they see a gun too. Stop and show an adult is not rocket surgery.
 
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The willful act was him choosing to put the gun in the bag.
I could be wrong here, and misremembering, but aren’t you the member who can’t have a gun because you refused vaccines in the military and were dishonorably discharged?

If you’re not that member I apologize. But if you are that member, then maybe that’s why you’re so hyper about punishing this guy.
 

enbloc

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Soon it will be illegal to be caught with a plastic straw on your juicebox at a Daycare...
 
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I'm very serious. Was it a kid who found it? Or an adult?

Any kid over the age of 2 should know the rules when they see a gun too. Stop and show an adult is not rocket surgery.
Lol ok so would you hand a loaded gun to a 2 year old and leave the room ? You are so full of shit...
 
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I'm very serious. Was it a kid who found it? Or an adult?

Any kid over the age of 2 should know the rules when they see a gun too. Stop and show an adult is not rocket surgery.
A 2 year old can barley put A sentence together and you want them to understand gun safety? That’s funny shit
 

Picton

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I do think a number of posters here probably have a warped idea of how daycare centers work in the modern era.

Sprouts doesn't have lockers. It has hooks in cubbies on the wall where parents hang their bags. That bag and everything in it was completely fair game to everyone in that center for the time it was there. It was a fully unsecured firearm in a roomful of toddlers. Seen from the perspective of the people who own the business, that's a liability nightmare for employees, customers, and... students? Inmates? Whatever you call the kids.

Put your chambered SIG in a bag, toss it underhand into a preschool, and walk away. That's essentially what the father here did. I'm not one of the guys advocating for DCYF; like I said earlier, there are two mistakes here and I can see how one would happen innocently enough. But those of you who are airily pretending this is anything but irresponsible gun ownership aren't thinking.
 
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Lol ok so would you hand a loaded gun to a 2 year old and leave the room ? You are so full of shit...
Parents who do not teach their kids to respect and control things which can kill them are full of shit.

People who do not understand that mistakes can happen are full of shit.

100 years ago, if a kid got dropped off to a neighbors house to be watched by their 12 year old child or something while their parents worked a field, if they ran into a loaded Colt or shotgun: no world would end.

To be freaking honest, before I dropped my 2 yr old toddler off to daycare in ME, he was aware of what a gun looked like and had the fortitude to follow Eddie eagle and tell an adult.

Was I worried about leaving my own GAT in his Nap? No. I know where all my stuff is. But I was worried about some other person maybe leaving their piece in a place to be prodded.

This discovery isn't a world changing event man. And more people die from hammers. Right? Would you be in a Jimmie knot fest over a hammer? How about car keys.

Now if this was prescription meds, you would have my attention..

./fulltroll_off
 

Asaltweapon

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Soon it will be illegal to be caught with a plastic straw on your juicebox at a Daycare...
My wife was bitching about a soggy paper straw from Dunks 2 weekends ago. Today that POS paper cup they came out with leaked like a broken spigot all over my cup holder.

I’m buying a case of prebans and will have to rethink my to go options.
 

42!

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I could be wrong here, and misremembering, but aren’t you the member who can’t have a gun because you refused vaccines in the military and were dishonorably discharged?

If you’re not that member I apologize. But if you are that member, then maybe that’s why you’re so hyper about punishing this guy.
Not me, I await your apology. Heck, I even get flue shots every year.

My problem is I have no patience for irresponsible idiots.
 

Picton

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Some of you, too, are shifting the blame away from the gun owner and onto the employees who found the gun. Nothing that happened here is the fault of any of the wage slaves who clean diapers all day. They were presumably following the center's policy, and the center was following the laws under which they are licensed. Blaming those people for doing what they're paid to do is ridiculous. What happened here is the fault of one man who exhibited a lapse in judgement.

We're always going on about how it's "not the gun's fault," how it's always the shooter's. This owner was completely responsible for what he did with his firearm. Why, then, would you absolve the owner from blame for misplacing his own property? This is HIS FAULT. Any penalties he accrues from being an irresponsible gunowner in a state where we all know you need to be 110% careful? Those are his fault, too.
 

Rob Boudrie

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lapse in judgement
Fault does not necessarily mean knowing intent to violate the law.

Read up on "mens rea" and "scienture", then google a bit to find the SJC brief SJC-12710 in which the marsupials are going to decide if there is a carve-out for gun offenses making them "strict liability" and not requiring mens rea as all crimes other in MA do. Attorney "he whose name is not spoken here" filed a masterpiece of a Amicus, that Comm2A was proud to commission that artwork.

The question at hand in that case is "if one has an AD in their dwelling, are they criminally guilty of discharge within 500 ft of an occupied dwelling (assuming neighbors that close), even if it undisputed that there was no intent to discharge the weapon, with a secondary issue of "does the defendant have the right to have the jury charge state they must find the defendant knowingly and intentionally committed the act and that it was not an unintended accident.
 
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D2EA3221-F11A-4868-B331-786EEF2554ED.jpeg
Parents who do not teach their kids to respect and control things which can kill them are full of shit.

People who do not understand that mistakes can happen are full of shit.

100 years ago, if a kid got dropped off to a neighbors house to be watched by their 12 year old child or something while their parents worked a field, if they ran into a loaded Colt or shotgun: no world would end.

To be freaking honest, before I dropped my 2 yr old toddler off to daycare in ME, he was aware of what a gun looked like and had the fortitude to follow Eddie eagle and tell an adult.

Was I worried about leaving my own GAT in his Nap? No. I know where all my stuff is. But I was worried about some other person maybe leaving their piece in a place to be prodded.

This discovery isn't a world changing event man. And more people die from hammers. Right? Would you be in a Jimmie knot fest over a hammer? How about car keys.

Now if this was prescription meds, you would have my attention..

./fulltroll_off
 

Picton

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Fault does not necessarily mean knowing intent to violate the law.

Read up on "mens rea" and "scienture", then google a bit to find the SJC brief SJC-12710 in which the marsupials are going to decide if there is a carve-out for gun offenses making them "strict liability" and not requiring mens rea as all crimes other in MA do. Attorney "he whose name is not spoken here" filed a masterpiece of a Amicus, that Comm2A was proud to commission that artwork.

The question at hand in that case is "if one has an AD in their dwelling, are they criminally guilty of discharge within 500 ft of an occupied dwelling (assuming neighbors that close), even if it undisputed that there was no intent to discharge the weapon, with a secondary issue of "does the defendant have the right to have the jury charge state they must find the defendant knowingly and intentionally committed the act and that it was not an unintended accident.
I get that. But I assume this case is clearer-cut than that: he lives in Massachusetts. We all know he violated storage laws, transport laws, and GFZ. If he has an LTC, we also know he's been trained on all those laws; he's not ignorant of their application.

Let me hasten to add before people pile on: I THINK THOSE LAWS ARE SILLY AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL. And if he was valiantly practicing civil disobedience by willfully violating a bad law, I might feel differently. But he wasn't. He was just being... in a word? Negligent.
 

Rob Boudrie

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We all know he violated storage laws, transport laws, and GFZ
If the concept of scienture is upheld (as it is applied in other laws) no violation legally occurred. I'm talking law here, not what should be, do you feel he should be disarmed for life, etc. Just the law.

Was the daycare a recognized school for the purpose of MGL?
he's not ignorant of their app
No, but he may (emphasis may) be ignorant of the fact that he was committing the alleged crime.
 

76Too

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OP is really racking up his thread count here...went from 5 posts to 160 something in a day :D

...maybe gaining some street cred?

In all seriousness...I've made some really bad/big mistakes in my life and I'm just glad that no one found me to be unsuitable because of them. Owning firearms is one of the most core attributes that made me who I am today, and I literally would be a different person without the 'privelidge' (in MA).

People are allowed to make mistakes in life. This was a pretty big one, but should he be damned to a life without protection for his family? I say no. I can (almost) guarantee he'd never make that mistake again.

I just really f***ING HATE tattletales. Confront someone about the problem and allow them to adjust fire and don't ruin their entire life over something trivial where no one was harmed.
 

drgrant

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does the cop who left his gun in a public restroom still have his ltc?
If cops were told they had to buy their own gun I guarantee this jackassery with guns in bathrooms would mostly end. Or a . bare minimum if they got a wage garnishment for a missing gun...

But hey, let's not stop that from ruining an entire family's worth of lives right? I mean destroying a family and running someone through the MA gunnlegal system is totally proportional response to leaving an object inadvertently bag right?
I'd have a lot less problems with what happened to the guy if it was a just a civil infrac.

Some of you, too, are shifting the blame away from the gun owner and onto the employees who found the gun. Nothing that happened here is the fault of any of the wage slaves who clean diapers all day. They were presumably following the center's policy, and the center was following the laws under which they are licensed. Blaming those people for doing what they're paid to do is ridiculous. What happened here is the fault of one man who exhibited a lapse in judgement.

We're always going on about how it's "not the gun's fault," how it's always the shooter's. This owner was completely responsible for what he did with his firearm. Why, then, would you absolve the owner from blame for misplacing his own property? This is HIS FAULT. Any penalties he accrues from being an irresponsible gunowner in a state where we all know you need to be 110% careful? Those are his fault, too.
Lol, well, some know you have to be 110% careful, then there's the other like 65% that take the diploma mill ltc course (or got grandfathered from some exemption) and forget everything quickly.... [laugh] We're biased here because we're immersed in it..... many people are clueless. As I write this, I bet money there's a guy who thinks handgun compliance is possession based, regurgitating a falsehood at a bar somewhere in MA.... [laugh]

-Mike
 

76Too

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Was the daycare a recognized school for the purpose of MGL?
I didn't even THINK of THAT. This was very likely a private residence or business and the only thing he might be at fault for is failing to comply with (MA) mandated 'proper' storage guidelines.

stupid move...unacceptable...but give the circumstances, forgivable in my books...coming from a former derelict though, so take that into consideration.
 

Rob Boudrie

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One of the interesting things about certain kinds of mistake. Ther person who makes such a mistake becomes one of the least likely person to ever make that mistake again, but the system treats them like they are more likely to.

I had a medical tech screw something up and I lost some blood. The facility offered to ban that person from ever attending to me again. I told the manager "Why would I want that? He is the one person on your staff who will never make that mistake again."
 

Picton

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I didn't even THINK of THAT. This was very likely a private residence or business and the only thing he might be at fault for is failing to comply with (MA) mandated 'proper' storage guidelines.

stupid move...unacceptable...but give the circumstances, forgivable in my books...coming from a former derelict though, so take that into consideration.
Post 146.

I've been to Little Sprouts. It's absolutely NOT just a private residence. It's a chain, fully licensed by DESE, with a curriculum and separate classrooms and errythang. You'd walk in there and think you were in a school, because that's how it's run.
 
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I could be wrong here, and misremembering, but aren’t you the member who can’t have a gun because you refused vaccines in the military and were dishonorably discharged?

If you’re not that member I apologize. But if you are that member, then maybe that’s why you’re so hyper about punishing this guy.
I don’t think that’s him, but we do have someone here that claimed something similar. I do NOT think we have any members here that believe a Dishonorable went through just for refusing a vaccine.
 
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