FrugalFannie
NES Member
Unfortunately a good chunk of your union dues go to fund campaigns for democrats and "progressive causes." Are you good with that? Your money pays for more votes than you cast by yourself at the ballot box.
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Picket line
- Thread starter mjbff
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Don't forget it was the teamsters that were refusing to deliver relief supplies in P.R. after the hurricane unless they got a raise.
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I'm not in a union so I'll cross whatever the hell I feel like crossing, they do nothing for me.
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Yeah but that's not the world they should live in. Look if you think that unions are in bed with Democrats then yes you're right. And frankly I couldn't careless about that and a vast majority of the teamsters I work with feel the same way. Most of the people I work with vote Republican. Bottom line is I get free health care, six weeks of vacation, a pension that I don't put money into and can't get fired. Every 5 years we hold a gun to the head of the company and take what's rightfully ours for all the work we do. The shareholders can piss off...they're doing good.
There's just so much self-righteousness, self-centeredness, and entitlement syndrome here I just don't know where to begin...
I appreciated his comments "I can't get fired" and "Shareholders can piss off" were just as enlightening. Tells one exactly how he feels.... and that is the problem with unions. They would just as well see the company go bankrupt causing everyone to lose their jobs than allow the company to cut loose the poor performers. "I can't be fired - I gots me seniority mada faka". People with an attitude like that, they would never make it in the performance-driven culture that exists outside of union shops. But little do they realize, that like a virus, they too slowly spread and continue to infect until one day they ultimately kill the host.... and themselves in the process...
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Enlighten me then.
I learned a long time ago, it is a fruitless endeavor to try to convince someone who has his mind set in stone. From your post - I can tell you are exactly that. Consequently, you're just not worth my time or effort. You just keep on getting yours...
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Wrong...if the company is making a huge profit like mine does every year then there is no reason why we shouldn't be getting some of that. Yes some unions fail their members and won't take concessions when the company is in red. That's foolish.
And there are plenty of opportunities for management to get rid of people who suck. My point is if you do your job management can't screw with you.
So yes I am entitled after breaking my back for 20 years.
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I will...that's capitalism.
I like how you say your "entitled" in one post and then call it capitalism in the very next... That's next level hypocrisy right there.
pastera
NES Member
If your company is truly making that much profit and you feel entitled to part of it, why not start a competitive business and take a part of the market? Those that put the most risk in the game get the highest return.
I actually thought your previous post was sarcasm - wow, jus wow
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How explain? So all the people that worked in manufacturing in this country to make it so great were communist. Sound like you are calling many people on this board a communist.
namedpipes
NES Member
At one time I was parking at the Tip O'Neil building and the BPD was picketing the parking garage. As I write that I can't remember why,- it seems an odd thing for them to picket, but there it is.
So there's this cordon of cops, some in uniform "keeping order" and some not in uniform, picketing.
One portly gentleman came close to jumping on my hood (which was clearly the most exercise he'd had in years).
I sympathized (except for that one a-hole), but bottom line I had to work and that was where I had to park. Nobody would be paying ME to not work that day or week. Can't remember how long the strike was (or even why it was).
So there's this cordon of cops, some in uniform "keeping order" and some not in uniform, picketing.
One portly gentleman came close to jumping on my hood (which was clearly the most exercise he'd had in years).
I sympathized (except for that one a-hole), but bottom line I had to work and that was where I had to park. Nobody would be paying ME to not work that day or week. Can't remember how long the strike was (or even why it was).
71montess
NES Member
The union think that someone’s vision, someone else’s risk taking to start a company is somehow unimportant and because of the simple fact that they are worker bees, they deserve, no, they are entitled to anything more than paycheck.
Lots of great veterans have been union, but if they have the entitlement attitude, they are on the wrong side.
This.
I'm in a union myself, and I think the guy's a self-centered douche.
Unions need to realize the times, they are a-changin'. It's not 1957 anymore. Smart unions are making the changes they need to make in order to stay relevant. The Janus SCOTUS decision is going to force a lot of public-employee unions to be smarter.
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You have to have that attitude when you are dealing with a faceless corporation. I have great respect for the founders of my company. They believed in quality and actually brought the union in. The current management team is managing numbers not people.
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Fighting for what you want doesn't make you a douche. It's just smart.
I have seen some unions do some very good things. Example: Carpenters union setting up a very solid training center, followed by a well supported apprenticeship program. I don't particularly want my house to be built by some illegal who has no idea what he's doing. If there's no highly skilled alternative and therefore no differentiation between available tradesmen, per hour cost will be the deciding factor.
Mostly my relationships with unions / union types has been adversarial, putting it mildly LOL. However, I do think there are functions they can organize that would make them relevant and useful, at least for the skilled trades.
This is the problem, unions are not all the same and around here they get lumped somewhat. I am in a union, the Ironworkers. We get no paid vacations, pay our own medical, pay our own retirement, and are only paid hours we actually work. Holidays are unpaid unless we work on them, rain days, sick days etc. all unpaid. I can be fired or laid off at any time for any reason, there is no seniority (Only one that is pretty safe is the steward) and I'm expected to show up ready to work, on time. Lazy guys don't stay on jobs, people who can't hack it aren't protected, and if you screw up something you will likely be headed down the road that day with no meetings or other HR nonsense.
I get paid well for what I do, but I also am expected to do a good job. We have to get things done faster and generally better to make up for the fact that the companies have to pay us more and thus have to bid based on that. We don't have a single company that we are negotiating with, and thus it is far different from any of the single company unions. It is not exactly free market, but we also can't really dictate anything we want because it is a large number of companies being dealt with and if the bids go too high we won't get the work.
There are issues, especially with the money being paid straight into democrat coffers, and there are picket lines and some other sorts of things from time to time. But in the overall I have never been asked or seen anyone else be asked to damage or destroy anything, threaten anyone, or do anything other than some silly nonsense like walking in front of a truck that has stopped for the picket (But of course only one time because that is what's allowed). Those things are like was said earlier, it feels like a dumb play "Hey guys, we are making a difference by slowing them down" while everyone involved knows it's stupid.
I don't understand the arrogance of some in this thread with talk about holding a gun to the head of the company to demand things. We negotiate with companies, but we do it with a promise that the reason they are paying us is because we will make them money through good, fast work. I know the image of unions is not that, but I take pride in being a professional and doing the right thing to get the job done. We have an apprenticeship to make sure that the people we send out are well trained, and I am dumbfounded hearing about people who feel they are owed the job whether they can do it well or not.
People ARE numbers. That's business. Get over it. It's not called human relationships and hugs, it's called human RESOURCES for a reason. When employee A is putting out 75% of the work that employee B is, then employee A needs to get fired and replaced. Unions work very hard to deny the company that option. Not only do they make it next to impossible to do so - as in your own words "I can't get fired" - but they also dictate that Employee A and B are paid the same based on tenure. That despite different quality and quantity of their outputs. There is nothing capitalistic at all about "I can't get fired". But there's an awful lot of communism in there... Unions much like socialism and communism largely encourage laziness and sap productivity. Because why bust your ass if you're not going to be paid any more then the slacker taking a nap in the restroom?
Capitalism - which you comically referred to as getting what you're "entitled to" in a prior post - is retaining and paying people based on their ability, their output, and their actual market value. Not their tenure or some union contract pay scale. Now let me tell you how a capitalist handles employee A and B. In a capitalist company when employee A puts out 75% of the work as employee B, then employee B gets paid more than employee A. That's if employee A doesn't lose his job. Hard work is rewarded, laziness is discouraged, and it yields a highly skilled and highly productive workforce. In other words, it brings out the best in people and that's what's best for both the people and the company.
Unions seem to think these "faceless corporations" would just run over and take advantage people if they didn't exist. But that's simply not true. Sure there will be some companies that will try. Those companies will also not be able to retain talent and in the end, that translates to not being able to retain business... and when that happens you're out of business...
Companies don't just compete against each other for business, they compete for talent as well. Unionized companies are at a distinct disadvantage in this marketplace for talent. Because people who want to get ahead through hard work will migrate to places where that opportunity exists. And that's not in union shops. So that leaves unionized companies with... well, those who can fog up a mirror and feel entitled to a fat paycheck for doing so. That while they watch their best and most productive people move on to better opportunities with companies that recognize the value of good work ethic and skill and reward those who have it while cutting loose those who don't.
not new guy
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And unions wonder why they’re dying.
usp45ct
NES Member
So the fact you are proud you “ can’t get fire” and admittedly “hold a gun to the head to the head of your company” are all the things that really work contrary to capitalism. So to extrapolate out based on your comments, you would flounder and perish in a world in which you were not protecting for doing substandard work.
Got it.
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Wrong again. I was in management for 4 years there. Did very well at it. So well in fact that they asked me what i wanted to do with my career and I told them I wanted to be driver for the company and go back into the union which VERY rarely happens. I could see the writing on the wall. They way they treat management was and is horrible. Now new management have no pension, pay out the ass for health insurance. To top it off grandfathered management employees were just told sorry but we're not contributing to your pensions anymore. So no I would not perish.
