Partial open carry

[dcmdon]

I'm a little worried that the OP felt safer after she saw it was a "Government employee."

Why would you feel safer after seeing a govt employee with a gun?

This has been covered ad nauseam. That is the statement that started the original "pig pile" on the OP.
Suffice to say that she understands that many of us don't feel the same relief when we see the carrier is a Government employee.


Knuckle - Thanks for the explanation and the cite.

Don

 

[badgb21]

I think undercover cops and prison guards should display a badge when partially concealed or do a full conceal

Bit of a paradox?

 

[dcmdon]

Nobody should have to display anything.

Better for us to keep it ambiguous. Otherwise, you invite 911 calls when a citizen is OCing.
If the public is conditioned to NOT expect a badge, then it works in our favor.

Besides, what reason does a Prison Guard have to carry (besides self defense like any citizen) when he is out of uniform?
To many of them its just their way of asserting that "I'm a LEO just like a cop"

And no a prison guard is not a cop. Actually, in my mind, its much much more difficult. For all the heroic talk about cops, the simple truth is that its just not that dangerous a job. And when cops do die, its most likely to be in an auto accident WITHOUT lights and sirens. Cops do a lot of driving. So its only reasonable that their leading cause of death should be auto accidents.

In contrast, corrections officers are unarmed and locked in a cage with people who often want to kill them. I'd rather be a cop any day of the week. But that doesn't change the fact that a CO is not a LEO.

Wow. Pretty rambling. I apologize in advance.

 

[SIG-owner]

OP, don't listen to everyone bashing you. Good situational awareness.

Thank you shootback!! Not taking any of it personally. I'll be the one that doesn't get mowed down some night by a psycho! I trust no one.

- - - Updated - - -

I get what you are saying. We go through our lives mostly oblivious to danger because we live in a pretty civilized society. All of a sudden you see a guy with a gun and you realize how false your sense of security is.

Even though you know on the surface that it's probably just some normal dude, there is that animal part of your brain that thinks "danger". When you are not carrying, it's much worse because you are pretty much at the mercy of the guy with the gun.

My one suggestion is that you carry everywhere and be aware if your surroundings. I guess that's actually two suggestions, but seriously: carry everywhere

Yes, will carry at all times now!

 

[SIG-owner]

I never bashed you, but did ask back in post #23 why either of you were not carrying if you are licensed to do so. I only asked because you made it a point that you were not carrying. If it is none of my business, then so be it.

Sorry Glockster30, I responded. It must not have posted. It was a very quick trip for a coffee before heading out. I just didn't feel the need. Big mistake.

 

[SIG-owner]

Its not uncommon for most guys on NES to pile on. Its what they do best... some threads warrant this while others (like yours) do not. I hear what you're saying - If I see some random guy/gal open carrying I'm like "what are they up too?".

With that being said, I'm sure every dude who made a snark comment in this thread would just pass it off as common place with no afterthought that the situation wasn't normal. Because thats what their fingures will type...

Thank you Ashdump! I appreciate your comments. Thought it would drive a good discussion, not a witch hunt.

 

[SIG-owner]

Sig-Owner

PM inbound to you.

There is a lot of bad info being propagated by instructors who do not know the law.

Whenever I make a statement that relates to the law, I provide a citation. Or I flag that I have not provided a citation and ask others to challenge me.
I too was warned about the dreaded Breach of Peace charge for even printing. Even though it was completely wrong, I believed it for years.

That is one thing that is great about the Internet. If someone makes a statement AND provides a citation, then you can look it up yourself and draw your own conclusion.

One other thing that's important when parsing the law is that laws remove freedoms, they don't grant them. So you will never find a law stating that OC is legal. Its legality is borne of the fact that there is not any law prohibiting it.

This can serve as an effective litmus test when discussing the law with people. If a person says or writes "oh yeah, show me the law that says you can Open Carry" for example. They are showing a fundamental ignorance of how laws work in the US and UK (This concept is based on English Common Law)

I hope this helps.

Don

p.s. And since this is in the General category and not Mass Law, I'd like to remind everyone that OC is perfectly legal and safe in CT. If you have a resident or non-resident CT pistol permit, get yourself a retention holster (its the responsible thing to do) and OC for a day. Or casual carry like I described in an earlier post. Nothing removes the fear of printing that new shooters experience like actually carrying something in the open for a few days.

Overview: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/4466e880-f27f-4b6e-8bf4-51f1a87d7516

CT State police training doc: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/a034b530-1221-425d-a99f-53af710ff219

Thank you! Saw pm and will respond shortly!

 

[bandaid bandit]

I was OCing for a few hours the other day in a city on the north shore that until recently was Crimson as far as licensing. Granted, I was in dress pants and shirt, but everyone was oblivious. Walking around, made stops at my main bank and credit union, then got a coffee and hit the LGS for a few boxes of carry ammo. Only funny looks I got was before I went OC from my G19 printing like crazy.

 

[Fixxah]

Did you pee a little bit?

 

[JoeyD]

Badges, uniforms... Hmmmm...let's see. "Joe....Za Za".
http://youtu.be/ARDNplRanH4
The Godfather......this movie teaches many lessons to live by.

Yes it does.

 

[wfd38383]

Partial open carry is like saying "Just the tip."

I can't rep point one from tapatalk. +100


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[je25ff]

what about just a banana hammock?

 

[drgrant]

OP, don't listen to everyone bashing you. Good situational awareness.

Good SA but way too much irrational fear.

-Mike

 

[fencer]

When I see someone carrying my first thought is ..... " I bet I can out shoot, draw faster, and execute a reload faster than that guy. LOL." or, " I wonder how often he practices"

 

[dcmdon]

Partial open carry is like saying "Just the tip."

I couldn't disagree more. Let me give you a personal example.

My goal when I carry is comfort and convenience, combined with the ability to carry the most effective firearm, concealment be damned.

When I dress casually (95% of my life) I wear an untucked shirt. So for me the most convenient thing to carry is my G19 in an OWB holster with my T shirt untucked.

The holster shows and the grip prints. I don't care. I'm carrying the gun I want, the way I want. I call this "casual carry". Some others may call it partial open carry.

Either way, I'm not going to tuck in my T shirt, something I normally wouldn't do, just so I can say I'm OCing.

I don't give a flying phuck if anyone sees me. In fact, I welcome LE interactions. But for me, its about convenience and comfort, not about making a statement.

Don

 

[Racenet]

I couldn't disagree more. Let me give you a personal example.

My goal when I carry is comfort and convenience, combined with the ability to carry the most effective firearm, concealment be damned.

When I dress casually (95% of my life) I wear an untucked shirt. So for me the most convenient thing to carry is my G19 in an OWB holster with my T shirt untucked.

The holster shows and the grip prints. I don't care. I'm carrying the gun I want, the way I want. I call this "casual carry". Some others may call it partial open carry.

Either way, I'm not going to tuck in my T shirt, something I normally wouldn't do, just so I can say I'm OCing.

I don't give a flying phuck if anyone sees me. In fact, I welcome LE interactions. But for me, its about convenience and comfort, not about making a statement.

Don

It is simply called carry in these parts. That is the way it's done around here every day.

 

[dcmdon]

Ha. Touche.

Yes. I spent the last two weeks on vacation at Squam Lake in NH. I went to a party in Campton at a friends house. There was a guy there OCing a Sig P226. I was almost embarassed to have my G 42 in my pocket.

 

[pastera]

I couldn't disagree more. Let me give you a personal example.

My goal when I carry is comfort and convenience, combined with the ability to carry the most effective firearm, concealment be damned.

When I dress casually (95% of my life) I wear an untucked shirt. So for me the most convenient thing to carry is my G19 in an OWB holster with my T shirt untucked.

The holster shows and the grip prints. I don't care. I'm carrying the gun I want, the way I want. I call this "casual carry". Some others may call it partial open carry.

Either way, I'm not going to tuck in my T shirt, something I normally wouldn't do, just so I can say I'm OCing.

I don't give a flying phuck if anyone sees me. In fact, I welcome LE interactions. But for me, its about convenience and comfort, not about making a statement.

Don

This has become my norm - the only issue I have with printing through an untucked shirt is that it may be too tight and restrict my draw.


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[mrmike7189]

Not True...some co's are LEO's

Nobody should have to display anything.

Better for us to keep it ambiguous. Otherwise, you invite 911 calls when a citizen is OCing.
If the public is conditioned to NOT expect a badge, then it works in our favor.

Besides, what reason does a Prison Guard have to carry (besides self defense like any citizen) when he is out of uniform?
To many of them its just their way of asserting that "I'm a LEO just like a cop"

And no a prison guard is not a cop. Actually, in my mind, its much much more difficult. For all the heroic talk about cops, the simple truth is that its just not that dangerous a job. And when cops do die, its most likely to be in an auto accident WITHOUT lights and sirens. Cops do a lot of driving. So its only reasonable that their leading cause of death should be auto accidents.

In contrast, corrections officers are unarmed and locked in a cage with people who often want to kill them. I'd rather be a cop any day of the week. But that doesn't change the fact that a CO is not a LEO.


Not True

Some CO's are LEO's (Deputy sheriffs)...........many work undercover in gang task forces, drug task forces,fugitive apprehension teams etc.

 

[Chris M.]

How many others have open carried (fully) in mass? And what happened? I have not.

 

[dcmdon]

Nobody should have to display anything.

Better for us to keep it ambiguous. Otherwise, you invite 911 calls when a citizen is OCing.
If the public is conditioned to NOT expect a badge, then it works in our favor.

Besides, what reason does a Prison Guard have to carry (besides self defense like any citizen) when he is out of uniform?
To many of them its just their way of asserting that "I'm a LEO just like a cop"

And no a prison guard is not a cop. Actually, in my mind, its much much more difficult. For all the heroic talk about cops, the simple truth is that its just not that dangerous a job. And when cops do die, its most likely to be in an auto accident WITHOUT lights and sirens. Cops do a lot of driving. So its only reasonable that their leading cause of death should be auto accidents.

In contrast, corrections officers are unarmed and locked in a cage with people who often want to kill them. I'd rather be a cop any day of the week. But that doesn't change the fact that a CO is not a LEO.


Not True

Some CO's are LEO's (Deputy sheriffs)...........many work undercover in gang task forces, drug task forces,fugitive apprehension teams etc.

Well then they are acting as LEOs in that capacity.

I know two guys who are COs. They drive to work, work in their prison and drive home. Its safe to say thats representative of the vast majority of COs.

- - - Updated - - -

How many others have open carried (fully) in mass? And what happened? I have not.

I haven't tried. I have to much too lose. If my LTC gets pulled, I'm screwed.
(all my examples above happen in CT)

Interesting how I am not afraid to poke the PD in CT because a pistol permit / LTC is not needed to possess in CT.

 

[CobaltBlueSteel]

How many others have open carried (fully) in mass? And what happened? I have not.

I did once a few months ago. There was an NES Flamethower event in Athol. I open carried my Sig P226 there, then after the event I went to a gas station, filled up my tank, went inside and bought a Snickers, drove home... the P226 in an OWB holster on my hip in plain sight throughout. No issues... but Athol isn't Cambridge.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Better for us to keep it ambiguous. Otherwise, you invite 911 calls when a citizen is OCing.

if you are involved in a conflict that does not rise to the level of pulling a weapon, there is tremendous strategic disadvantage to the other party knowing you are armed --- as in "he threatened to shoot me".

 

[EddieCoyle]

partially concealed.

This is like partially pregnant.

 

[josh2600]

Ok, great comments men! Guess I started quite a shit storm. Lol.
i guess there was something lost in the translation. My final comments on this topic.

1) I carry and I think every one should.
2) Not afraid of guns like someone posted. I have quite a collection.
3) Have no issues with open carry. As I stated, I live part time in NH and they open carry.
4) It's too bad MA gun owners don't open carry more often because as a woman, when I see the rare occasion of OC like I did this AM, I wouldn't be so suspicious.

but do you see why being suspicious of it is silly? No one actually up to no good is going to be OCing, nevermind with holster and spare mags.

 

[drgrant]

I did once a few months ago. There was an NES Flamethower event in Athol. I open carried my Sig P226 there, then after the event I went to a gas station, filled up my tank, went inside and bought a Snickers, drove home... the P226 in an OWB holster on my hip in plain sight throughout. No issues... but Athol isn't Cambridge.

Might as well be another country. Last time i was there on the way via rt 32 there was a cow wandering around in the road.

 

[JZ1018]

A Michigan federal court would be superseded by SJC case law. The current training standard that all MA police officers should be receiving is very specific. They can demand to see a license and they can verify that license. Absent other factors that is their only recourse.

FRB v. Simkin



My favorite part of the decision is footnote 15:

I noticed in the quote that it says Simkin deals with alarm caused by conceal carry. It does not say anything about open carry. Does Simkin cover open carry?

 

[Kisspik002]

We prefer Correctional Officer over Guard...at least most guys I know do. HAHA

 

[CobaltBlueSteel]

This is like partially pregnant.

Yup.