Thank you Knuckle Dragger! I have some serious bruises from this post. I'm not the enemy here. I carry too and promote it. Hell, I'm going to take classes to train other women to carry. But in MA, it's unusual to OC, and as a woman it's suspicious when I see it. Believe me, I hate MA regs All I'm saying.
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Partial open carry
- Thread starter SIG-owner
- Start date
Thank you Knuckle Dragger! I have some serious bruises from this post. I'm not the enemy here. I carry too and promote it. Hell, I'm going to take classes to train other women to carry. But in MA, it's unusual to OC, and as a woman it's suspicious when I see it. Believe me, I hate MA regs All I'm saying.
Open carriers, assemble!!!
No, let's not! And here's why..... [emphasis added]
At some point there may be a time and place to make a First/Second Amendment statement. We're not there yet and I hope we don't get to that point. The legislature is in no mood to consider new 'gun' bills -- for or against. That could quickly change if some *******s start the open carry movement without a point to protests.
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Shoot you in the pinky toe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMiGHGsdikU
NSFW, some language. Eddie Murphy, Harlem Nights, Pinky toe.
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Kicker96FS
NES Member
.
I think you need to realize that criminals dont exactly open carry. Or "partially" open carry as you state. When I see a side arm exposed on someones hip it does not concern me. You think gang bangers walk around with the nines and fotays exposed? If someone is gonna shoot the place up the are either gonna conceal it until they draw and fire or come in blazing and your at your own defenses either way. But a dude calmly walking arpund open carrying? No biggie
Glockster30
NES Member
I never bashed you, but did ask back in post #23 why either of you were not carrying if you are licensed to do so. I only asked because you made it a point that you were not carrying. If it is none of my business, then so be it.
How do you know this to be a fact ? Bad guys print and expose just like any other CCWs and are just as careless. Their gun handling skills are frequently unprofessional and unsafe. There are too any number of indicators that can give away whether someone is carrying or not and frequently are the basis for NYPD's famous or infamous stop and frisk policies.
Don't assume that just because a BG is armed he is going to use his roscoe. He's going to buy coffee at Dunks, get gas and go to Market Basket, if he is going to shoot the place up, just because he might be exposing his weapon openly or partially prior to engaging it, is in and itself not a tangible indicator that he is going to use it. Better indicators are other aspects of body language and not the open or partially open display of a firearm. The success of movie theater shootings are in part do to the fact that the pre indicators of the perp cannot be observed. Being aware of your surroundings and being able to read the intentions of the people around you should be first and foremost on your mind at all times.
Its not uncommon for most guys on NES to pile on. Its what they do best... some threads warrant this while others (like yours) do not. I hear what you're saying - If I see some random guy/gal open carrying I'm like "what are they up too?".
With that being said, I'm sure every dude who made a snark comment in this thread would just pass it off as common place with no afterthought that the situation wasn't normal. Because thats what their fingures will type...
you and i are saying the same thing just in different ways. We both agree that the mere presence of a fire arm on someonea hip is not necessarily an indicator of impending doom. If shits gonna go down its gonna go down.....but a dude open carrying is not a reason to bolt out the door. If you are like me youve already chosen your seat in public forum with visibility and avenue of approach/escape in mind anyway.
really? You know whats in my head? I actually saw a guy open carry a 1911 at an ice cream stand last year in mass. Came to nes to post it and see if the open carrier was a member here! Open carry fire arms dont bother me one bit.
I buy what your saying 100 percent. I always have an egress and you are correct OC isn't an indicator of anything other than the person might have a gun you wish you owned
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Personally I like the motto of retired USMC General Merritt: "Be polite, be professional and have a plan to kill everyone you meet" in other words be aware of your surroundings, observe what others are doing, don't make waves or call attention to yourself and be civil and courteous. Do this and you should be good to go 99 percent of the time. I think we are on the same sheet.
StevieP
NES Member
When I can, always sit facing the door. If the OP was situationally aware, she would have seen the van and not been surprised. Sounds like the person got all the way in & next to her before she noticed him & his gun. If he had ill intent, he would have had a big advantage.
I used to only carry "sometimes." I now carry most of the time. And practice situational awareness all the time.
I used to only carry "sometimes." I now carry most of the time. And practice situational awareness all the time.
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MachineHead
NES Member
If I offended you, Sig-owner, forgive me. If anyone wants to OC, more power to you. Hopefully, it would be done in a way that shines a positive light on the group. I honestly hope OC creeps up more and more in MA. Baseless fear imposed by conditioning is for animals.
In God We Trust
NES Member
I get what you are saying. We go through our lives mostly oblivious to danger because we live in a pretty civilized society. All of a sudden you see a guy with a gun and you realize how false your sense of security is.
Even though you know on the surface that it's probably just some normal dude, there is that animal part of your brain that thinks "danger". When you are not carrying, it's much worse because you are pretty much at the mercy of the guy with the gun.
My one suggestion is that you carry everywhere and be aware if your surroundings. I guess that's actually two suggestions, but seriously: carry everywhere
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
![[rofl2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/035.gif "ROFL2 [rofl2]")
dcmdon
NES Member
Knuckle - I may need to make you wait a day for a citation, but I am 100% sure that I remember some case law being made (I think 2nd Circuit) that said that an openly carried handgun IS grounds for a stop and frisk.
Don
***Edit*** Here it is:
http://www.guns.com/2015/06/16/mich...-initiate-contact-based-solely-on-open-carry/
dcmdon
NES Member
Sig-Owner
PM inbound to you.
There is a lot of bad info being propagated by instructors who do not know the law.
Whenever I make a statement that relates to the law, I provide a citation. Or I flag that I have not provided a citation and ask others to challenge me.
I too was warned about the dreaded Breach of Peace charge for even printing. Even though it was completely wrong, I believed it for years.
That is one thing that is great about the Internet. If someone makes a statement AND provides a citation, then you can look it up yourself and draw your own conclusion.
One other thing that's important when parsing the law is that laws remove freedoms, they don't grant them. So you will never find a law stating that OC is legal. Its legality is borne of the fact that there is not any law prohibiting it.
This can serve as an effective litmus test when discussing the law with people. If a person says or writes "oh yeah, show me the law that says you can Open Carry" for example. They are showing a fundamental ignorance of how laws work in the US and UK (This concept is based on English Common Law)
I hope this helps.
Don
p.s. And since this is in the General category and not Mass Law, I'd like to remind everyone that OC is perfectly legal and safe in CT. If you have a resident or non-resident CT pistol permit, get yourself a retention holster (its the responsible thing to do) and OC for a day. Or casual carry like I described in an earlier post. Nothing removes the fear of printing that new shooters experience like actually carrying something in the open for a few days.
Overview: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/4466e880-f27f-4b6e-8bf4-51f1a87d7516
CT State police training doc: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/a034b530-1221-425d-a99f-53af710ff219
PM inbound to you.
There is a lot of bad info being propagated by instructors who do not know the law.
Whenever I make a statement that relates to the law, I provide a citation. Or I flag that I have not provided a citation and ask others to challenge me.
I too was warned about the dreaded Breach of Peace charge for even printing. Even though it was completely wrong, I believed it for years.
That is one thing that is great about the Internet. If someone makes a statement AND provides a citation, then you can look it up yourself and draw your own conclusion.
One other thing that's important when parsing the law is that laws remove freedoms, they don't grant them. So you will never find a law stating that OC is legal. Its legality is borne of the fact that there is not any law prohibiting it.
This can serve as an effective litmus test when discussing the law with people. If a person says or writes "oh yeah, show me the law that says you can Open Carry" for example. They are showing a fundamental ignorance of how laws work in the US and UK (This concept is based on English Common Law)
I hope this helps.
Don
p.s. And since this is in the General category and not Mass Law, I'd like to remind everyone that OC is perfectly legal and safe in CT. If you have a resident or non-resident CT pistol permit, get yourself a retention holster (its the responsible thing to do) and OC for a day. Or casual carry like I described in an earlier post. Nothing removes the fear of printing that new shooters experience like actually carrying something in the open for a few days.
Overview: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/4466e880-f27f-4b6e-8bf4-51f1a87d7516
CT State police training doc: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/a034b530-1221-425d-a99f-53af710ff219
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I grew up in a state where nobody carried except the cops. Even most criminals didn't. That state still issues no carry licenses. Still, when I see someone carrying, either openly or just printing I only think: that's cool!
A Michigan federal court would be superseded by SJC case law. The current training standard that all MA police officers should be receiving is very specific. They can demand to see a license and they can verify that license. Absent other factors that is their only recourse.
FRB v. Simkin
My favorite part of the decision is footnote 15:
