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One reportedly dead in Virginia Tech shooting (Update: Now 33)
- Thread starter blindndead
- Start date
Chris
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Why not? It's just a product. Don't start thinking like the anti's. Rights only mean something if they apply to ALL.
blindndead
NES Member
I have a better one
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trey-ellis/democrats-are-standing-up_b_46074.html
Sandy Froman, pistol-packing president of the NRA, smiles at me from above my desk every day this month. She's the April pin-up for my Clare Boothe Luce Policy Institute "Great American Conservative Women" 2007 calendar. Besides seeing this as a public-relations nightmare, I wonder how she feels knowing that her organization is directly responsible for this country's insanely lax gun laws which have led to the senseless misery of thousands.
Listen, I respect hunters. Bow hunters, especially, but hunters in general spend hours out in nature and have the courage to actually kill what they eat. I can also understand the allure of firing a weapon. I've played paintball a few times and loved it. And I once sprayed an Uzi at a gun range in Vegas and it was a blast.
Handguns, however, are so easy to conceal and as almost extensions of our index fingers they allow the owner to almost magically point and zap away the problem immediately at hand. It is their very ease and efficiency that makes them such a danger to every single person within their radius -- including their owner.
We have needed sane gun laws for decades. Each of us is less safe because of the NRA and if the rest of us and our leaders don't stand up to them now we never will. The NRA leadership are a lunatic fringe that even their (overwhelmingly Republican-voting) membership have little in common with. They are like the Bushies who overran the Republican party and turned it into a base of operations for extreme-right-wing nutjobs.
Pin-up woman Froman, I'd like to tell you about my own personal history with a handgun. It is actually one that I never laid eyes on. When I was sixteen my mother didn't tell anyone that she had bought one, then one night drove off and parked in Yale's Payne Whitney gym parking lot. The police cleaned the blood out of our Audi and delivered it back to us a week or so later. When the police returned the gun to my father he immediately went back to the gun store where my mom had bought it, handed the manager back the gun and told him that his wife had used it to shoot herself in the heart.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trey-ellis/democrats-are-standing-up_b_46074.html
Sandy Froman, pistol-packing president of the NRA, smiles at me from above my desk every day this month. She's the April pin-up for my Clare Boothe Luce Policy Institute "Great American Conservative Women" 2007 calendar. Besides seeing this as a public-relations nightmare, I wonder how she feels knowing that her organization is directly responsible for this country's insanely lax gun laws which have led to the senseless misery of thousands.
Listen, I respect hunters. Bow hunters, especially, but hunters in general spend hours out in nature and have the courage to actually kill what they eat. I can also understand the allure of firing a weapon. I've played paintball a few times and loved it. And I once sprayed an Uzi at a gun range in Vegas and it was a blast.
Handguns, however, are so easy to conceal and as almost extensions of our index fingers they allow the owner to almost magically point and zap away the problem immediately at hand. It is their very ease and efficiency that makes them such a danger to every single person within their radius -- including their owner.
We have needed sane gun laws for decades. Each of us is less safe because of the NRA and if the rest of us and our leaders don't stand up to them now we never will. The NRA leadership are a lunatic fringe that even their (overwhelmingly Republican-voting) membership have little in common with. They are like the Bushies who overran the Republican party and turned it into a base of operations for extreme-right-wing nutjobs.
Pin-up woman Froman, I'd like to tell you about my own personal history with a handgun. It is actually one that I never laid eyes on. When I was sixteen my mother didn't tell anyone that she had bought one, then one night drove off and parked in Yale's Payne Whitney gym parking lot. The police cleaned the blood out of our Audi and delivered it back to us a week or so later. When the police returned the gun to my father he immediately went back to the gun store where my mom had bought it, handed the manager back the gun and told him that his wife had used it to shoot herself in the heart.
if anyone listened to dennis and callahan today they were saying how we should rewrite the constitution and delete 2A
Read the book - it is well worth the money for what you will learn. It truly will open your eyes. If the Virginia incident was a terrorist attack and not just one lone gunman we would have been looking at a body count in the hundreds or maybe even thousands.
If you read the Beslan book - and then look at incidents like what happened at Virginia Tech one of the things you will realize is that if terrorists are going to attack our schools they will look at incidents like yesterday's and realize that schools are nice easy soft targets - populated with thousands of waiting victims - who won't fight back, because they are forbidden from fighting back.
One would hope that the VT incident would be a wake up call - unfortunately it will more likely be a go back to sleep call.
Nothing other then a "police state" would stop this from happening. What the libs just don't understand is that we are all humans and there will always be bad and crazy people. We can not create this stupid commie utopian that they want. We have two choices by nature fight or flight. But in todays world especially in schools the government has changed this to flight or die.
![[frown]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/003.gif "Frown [frown]")
Some got lucky and got away, many did not and this is ashame.
Dennis and Callahan
I listened till about 8am and didn`t hear this comment. Who said this?
Callahan is a conservative so I find it odd if he would make a statment like this.
******
I listened till about 8am and didn`t hear this comment. Who said this?
Callahan is a conservative so I find it odd if he would make a statment like this.
rwl...i was listening at the 10 oclock hour...i never listen to it...one of the guys who was working on my work van must have been listenin to it earlier...not sure which one of them it was...but there was another guy on whos name started with an M i believe...it could have been him
J
Jose
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
Garys
NES Member
If it wasn't a gun, it would have been a bridge, or medications, or carbon monoxide, or a rope, Chloroform, or something else. People who are intent on killing themselves or others will find a way.
Gary
And that means exactly what? In this case the shooter purchsed the two firearms just weeks before and most likely had little of no skills. And yet he managed to commit one of the worse acts of mass murder in the countries history.
As the Monday Morning Quarterback sessions are in full swing, how exactly would you handle this incident. You have a double murder roughly one and a half hours before taking up most of your law enforcement resource. (The VT police dept is 26 officers in total.) They did not know if it was a double murder of murder suicide. Unlike TV, the CSI doesn't give a ruling withing the first few minutes of arrival.
Now you want to "lock down" a mid sized city based on what? This isn't one building but a 2600 acre campus. That doesn't include the non-institutional areas and facilities/buildings/residences.
Actice shooter training is VERY common in light of the recent events but it deals with a smaller high school/middle school type senario.
Remember when Boston tried locking down the city for the "possible destructive device" incident. The netire resourses of a cuty the size of Boston could not secure the city, only small areas. In any case as the shooter was a student with most likely a student id, he would have been allowed or secured in a school facility. Could those meager resourses search every person entering the area? Doubt it. The student popular of VT is probably 28K plus. Add to that staff. Not happening in an hour.
It isn't as easy as it looks. Unfortunatly the effectivenesss of the Glock probably meant the entire second incident was over in a matter of minutes.
Monday Morning Quarterbacking has a place in this event. The country can look at what happened and what can be done by the agencies to hopefully prevent it from happening in the future. Anti and pro firearms types will both have very harse opinions. Sad to say but at this time probably little or nothing could have stopped this event if he truely was that determined to commit murder on this scale. This early in the game, no one knows all that much about him or this reasoning.
MaverickNH
NES Member
ABC Poll
Do you think this incident is a reason to pass stricter gun control legislation?
70% - No. Violent shootings are isolated incidents and it's irresponsible to link them to gun control.
28% - Yes. This shows the violence that can occur when someone has access to handguns.
Over 70,000 respondants to the ABC poll thus far - the stats have varied less than 1% from 69% opposing added gun control measures since the figures were 3-fold lower. I don't see them changing at this point.
Do you think this incident is a reason to pass stricter gun control legislation?
70% - No. Violent shootings are isolated incidents and it's irresponsible to link them to gun control.
28% - Yes. This shows the violence that can occur when someone has access to handguns.
Over 70,000 respondants to the ABC poll thus far - the stats have varied less than 1% from 69% opposing added gun control measures since the figures were 3-fold lower. I don't see them changing at this point.
this kills me... stepping up for going back to limited cap mags... HELLO!!! the walther .22 only holds 10 rounds
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
and his glock my have had 17... but more likely 15.
blindndead
NES Member
Bush defends the right to bear arms
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...to-bear-weapons/2007/04/17/1176696837399.html
THE deadliest school shooting in the United States has revived calls for tighter gun controls and spread shock waves.
President George Bush led expressions of dismay saying he was shocked and saddened by the rampage.
"Schools should be places of safety, and sanctuary, and learning. When that sanctuary is violated, the impact is felt in every American classroom and every American community," he said.
As renewed calls for tighter gun controls spread, the White House was quick to cut them off. A spokeswoman for Mr Bush said his policy was to vigorously enforce the right to bear arms.
Most of the leading presidential candidates put out statements expressing their horror at the killings, but none mentioned that Virginia has some of the most lax gun laws in the country.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain said the rampage did not change his view that the constitution guaranteed the right to carry a weapon.
Few politicians were prepared to take up the challenge of Paul Helmke, the president of the Brady Campaign, America's premier gun control lobby group, which called on Congress to hold a debate on the gun control issue.
"Until we are prepared to really look at the consequences of lax gun laws and the consequences of living in a country saturated with guns, we will continue to have these terrible tragedies," he said.
Previous mass killings, including the Amish school shooting last year, did not raise any serious debate over weapons in American society.
The powerful National Rifle Association has been effective in stopping gun reform during the years that Republicans controlled Congress.
Leading Republican contender for president Rudy Giuliani is a rarity among Republicans: an advocate of gun control. But in his attempt to win the nomination, he has been trying to soften his stance on gun control, which he pursued while mayor of New York.
Virginia has lax gun laws, at least by Australian standards. According to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Virginia does not require licensing of gun owners or registration of weapons. You can walk into a shop and just buy a gun. There is no cooling-off period to prevent crimes of passion.
But it does have a "one handgun a month" law and police keep records of gun sales at licensed dealers for a year. There are no restrictions or tests on guns sold at gun shows, swap-meets or privately. The one-a-month limit does not apply to rifles or shotguns.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...to-bear-weapons/2007/04/17/1176696837399.html
THE deadliest school shooting in the United States has revived calls for tighter gun controls and spread shock waves.
President George Bush led expressions of dismay saying he was shocked and saddened by the rampage.
"Schools should be places of safety, and sanctuary, and learning. When that sanctuary is violated, the impact is felt in every American classroom and every American community," he said.
As renewed calls for tighter gun controls spread, the White House was quick to cut them off. A spokeswoman for Mr Bush said his policy was to vigorously enforce the right to bear arms.
Most of the leading presidential candidates put out statements expressing their horror at the killings, but none mentioned that Virginia has some of the most lax gun laws in the country.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain said the rampage did not change his view that the constitution guaranteed the right to carry a weapon.
Few politicians were prepared to take up the challenge of Paul Helmke, the president of the Brady Campaign, America's premier gun control lobby group, which called on Congress to hold a debate on the gun control issue.
"Until we are prepared to really look at the consequences of lax gun laws and the consequences of living in a country saturated with guns, we will continue to have these terrible tragedies," he said.
Previous mass killings, including the Amish school shooting last year, did not raise any serious debate over weapons in American society.
The powerful National Rifle Association has been effective in stopping gun reform during the years that Republicans controlled Congress.
Leading Republican contender for president Rudy Giuliani is a rarity among Republicans: an advocate of gun control. But in his attempt to win the nomination, he has been trying to soften his stance on gun control, which he pursued while mayor of New York.
Virginia has lax gun laws, at least by Australian standards. According to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Virginia does not require licensing of gun owners or registration of weapons. You can walk into a shop and just buy a gun. There is no cooling-off period to prevent crimes of passion.
But it does have a "one handgun a month" law and police keep records of gun sales at licensed dealers for a year. There are no restrictions or tests on guns sold at gun shows, swap-meets or privately. The one-a-month limit does not apply to rifles or shotguns.
![[puke]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/023.gif "Puke [puke]")
One of the local TV stations interviewed a criminology prof from one of the local universities (Northeastern, I think). He pointed out that most of these events are NOT a "crime off passion" but were instead the result of long, detailed planning.
Chris
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Glock 19 was purchased 36 days ago. Sale was 100% legal. BATF was able to recover serial numbers (despite having been filed off) and tracing of the gun went as normal. So much of needing registration, waiting periods, etc etc.
Garys
NES Member
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/80510
From a student at the school who has a VA CCW permit.
Gary
From a student at the school who has a VA CCW permit.
Gary
I may have missed something, but what happened at VT on August 21? Sounds like it's not a very safe place to me.....
Garys
NES Member
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/79080
He was captured in the area, but not on campus. There was no direct connection to the school. Which doesn't make the point of the other article any less relevant.
Gary
A prisioner escaped from a local jail and had killed an officer and taken his gun. He was near the campus and then killed a second officer on campus gounds. This was on the 1st day of school at VT.
Garys
NES Member
I just listened to a bit of the VA Governor's new conference. I continue to be impressed by the ignorance, shallowness, and just plane unprofessionalism of the press corps.
But not surprised.
Gary
But not surprised.
Gary
Does it matter? It could have been a flint lock that he found in his Great-grandfathers chest and the antis would still use it against us.
They the antis, have an agenda just as we do. Theirs is to rid the world of weapons (which clearly can not be done), ours is to protect our selves from them (which clearly can be done).
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