NH witness: SPCA takes citizen's gun, chambers round

[MACGYVR]

You dont have to have a reason, but when the police shutdown a road, they have now exercised their legal powers to do so for protection of the public and/or the police operation taking place. At that point you have no rights to go down that road.

This holds true when a road is closed as well. If you ignore a road closed sign and drive into a flood and get stuck, you will be ticketed if caught.

If you drive through a police manned construction zone on the highway when the police tell you stop, you can and will be pulled over for ignoring the orders of a police officer.

Yes it is nanny state mentality but considering the intelligence level of some of the citizens out there I am glad that the police are their to stop them walking/driving into a situation where they could get hurt.

So you have to have a "reason" to walk on a public road?

That's news to me. Maybe I should try to get the police to arrest these two obnoxious women that walk their small, annoying dogs in the middle of the road in my neighborhood, if that's the case. After all, they could just as easily walk their dogs around the yard. So they don't have a reason. Or maybe I should have them arrest these gangbanger type guys that seem to waltz through my neighborhood- after all, they could probably get where they are going without walking through here, they don't really have a reason to use my street at all.

Nice "Papers Please" mentality here.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

You dont have to have a reason, but when the police shutdown a road, they have now exercised their legal powers to do so for protection of the public and/or the police operation taking place. At that point you have no rights to go down that road.

My bad... You didn't mention any of that in your post, it would have helped
if you had explained the situation. The way you stated it, you made it sound like it was okay for someone to be arrested "just because".


-Mike

 

[FhvnLT4A]

)

 

[Ripach]

First off, it shocks and appalls me that so many of you even vaguely take the side of the SPCA shithead and the LEO in this case. The SPCA idiot asked to come on the property and see the shelter, for what ever reason, he was told no and that should have been the end of it. HE chose to escalate the situation by calling in the local police, IMNSHO as a scare tactic, knowing full well they had no authority to give him access. The LEO at this point should have asked to see the shelter, and when told "NO", should have said "there is nothing more I can do here" and called back in service. Instead, and this is the part that sickens me most, he tried to convince the kid and caretaker that the SPCA Nazi had a "RIGHT" to search their property. I really don't have much of an opinion on the Ridley Report, or those associated with it as I don't view most of their videos, as I live behind the iron curtain. But I fail to see how anyone here feels they were baiting the LEO or the SPCA thug. They were asked for access to the property, they legally denied that access, and were further harassed for it. The only thing I would have done differently in that situation is volunteer less info, all they would have got out of me was a constant repeating of the word "WARRANT".

 

[calsdad]

Besides all the other issues being discussed here - there seems to be complete lack of comprehension of a very important fact mentioned in the owners letter:

Horses have lived outside for a long long time. The concept of the law saying that the owners HAVE TO have a shelter for them - is in and of itself an infringement on freedom and could be seen by many people who have horses - as ridiculous.

I don't own now and have never owned horses. But I do know one thing - they are expensive. And the vast majority of people who keep them take good care of them. The fact that there is a law dictating that you must have a shelter - and the fact that the SPCA guy feels that he has the right to just go around and dictate to people how they must keep those horses is in and of itself an indication of how far down the crapper this country has gone in recognizing what freedom and liberty are supposed to be about.

How did this incident even come about? Wasn't it because they SPCA got a report that the horses were there - but there was no shelter? So some busybody sees the horses out - and doesn't see a shelter on the 40 acres these people allegedly own. So busybody calls the authorities - instead of going over to the owners and asking them about how they are taking care of the horses. That is exhibit A in how far down the crapper this society has gone. Busybody knows if they call somebody with "authoritae" they can potentially screw these people for not having a shelter. That is a mentality just asking to be run by the govt.

Liberty means being self responsible. It means the allegedly concerned neighbor should have gone over to the house and asked the people how the horses were being taken care of. It means the police and SPCA guy shouldn't be so quick to just jump all over people.

Also notice that the SPCA guy did not show up in "helpful" mode. He showed in "screw you" mode. As did the police officer. The entire modis operandi of our govt and all the people who represent it is: SCREW YOU.

They never show up to help. They show up to screw you. This is why I think the people in the video are completely justified in any amount of crap they gave said officers.

 

[Half Cocked]

They never show up to help. They show up to screw you.

Thank you for the generalization and support.

 

[JonJ]

Does anyone know what powers the SPCA has? Are there circumstances where they can enter private property and seize animals?

 

[MACGYVR]

The so called busy body was the Ridley group themselves. They called the SPCA on themselves. They created the whole situation.

They were waiting for the guy to show up. They were prepared. They had their camera, their guns and the whole show was setup.

This is my problem here with them and how I think it all went down. of course they will deny everything and blame everybody else.

There is no possible way that this group of people can have that many run ins with the cops in that many different towns without baiting the cops or running to the scene of a police operation to get in the way.

side note
plenty of cops have an attitude problem and its even worse when its a wannabe cop. It usually comes out when antagonized.

 

[MACGYVR]

Does anyone know what powers the SPCA has? Are there circumstances where they can enter private property and seize animals?

Look further down the thread you will find a link to meeting minutes where the powers are explained.

In a nutshell they have no more power than your neighbor.
They receive a complaint and forward that complaint to the animal control officer if a town has one, if it does not, it forwards it to the police. But the police dont have the time or resources so they wont accept them. Thats where this SPCA guy comes in. Any complaints not passed off to law enforcement he goes out on his own to investigate. Basically snoop around and see if he can gather evidence of a crime, ie a dead horse, dog etc. He will take that evidence to local police and the the police will take it from there.

This is how it works in NH.

Every state is different. Some sates SPCA investigators have police power and can make arrests. But they usually have police present when they do.

 

[Half Cocked]

The so called busy body was the Ridley group themselves. They called the SPCA on themselves. They created the whole situation.

They were waiting for the guy to show up. They were prepared. They had their camera, their guns and the whole show was setup.

This is my problem here with them and how I think it all went down. of course they will deny everything and blame everybody else.

There is no possible way that this group of people can have that many run ins with the cops in that many different towns without baiting the cops or running to the scene of a police operation to get in the way.

Agreed. There is a lot of truth to that.

 

[Snapshot]

Was it a public road? YES. Did she have right to walk down it? YES BUT SHE HAD NO BUSINESS WALKING DOWN IT.

You can't be serious.

 

[calsdad]

Thank you for the generalization and support.

Well - did the SPCA officer do anything in that video that was "helpful"?

The police officer appeared to be trying to be calm during the situation - but he did not tell the SPCA guy that this was private property - and he should turn around and get a warrant if he wanted to enter it.

The SPCA guy wasn't there handing out pamphlets and telling them that he was there to help if the horses did not have shelter - he was there under the implicit threat of legal action or fine or even arrest if his orders were not complied with.

This is an attitude that I see more and more and more with all levels and functions in our government. Are there stupid people out there grabbing live wires and stuff like that? Sure. But part of the reason why all the "first responders" get so upset about this stuff is because they seem to have a built in mentality that they know what is right, they are in charge - and you "civilians" are all stupid.

I am sorry - but I see far too many incidents where what could have been a situation handled differently - ends up with somebody arrested for no reason other than the cops seem to take enjoyment in making people comply.

The US has a huge prison population. We have laws regulating every single little damn thing you do. It did NOT used to be like this. The attitudes of our govt. in general - and the people who represent it - ARE getting worse. I have to admit all the contacts I have had with police in my town have been ok. But they haven't been frequent - and I try to stay away from attracting any of their attention as much as I can. It doesn't seem to take much more than a simple misstep of unlucky turn of events to get the full force of "the law" coming down on your ass in this country any more.

For a good idea of how bad this can get I would recommend reading some Vin Suprynowicz:

http://www.lvrj.com/columnists/Vin_Suprynowicz.html

 

[Ripach]

The so called busy body was the Ridley group themselves. They called the SPCA on themselves. They created the whole situation.

I will state again that I normally don't watch the video's of the Ridley group, most don't pertain me, as open carrying where I live will get you locked up and deemed unsuitable. I of course find that absurd, and am happy that there are still places where it is acceptable. That being said, I am in way looking for a pissing contest here, I am just curious:
What if anything in this situation points you toward the conclusion, that they themselves called the "authorities"?

 

[Half Cocked]

Well - did the SPCA officer do anything in that video that was "helpful"?

.....so you find it necessary to condemn all LEO's?

The US has a huge prison population.

What does this have to do with the discussion?

I have to admit all the contacts I have had with police in my town have been ok.

So your gonna crap on them anyway?

 

[MACGYVR]

What if anything in this situation points you toward the conclusion, that they themselves called the "authorities"?

I contend that there is no possible way that this group of people can have that many run ins with the cops in that many different towns without baiting the cops or running to the scene of a police operation to get in the way.

What evidence do I have? The videos.

Their antics are absurd and repetitive. They bring their problems on themselves.

Just as an example.(you can find the video on youtube) There was the incident in Manchester where one of their group open carried a gun (Ruger MKII or similar) to some sort of public event. One of them had their gun confiscated by the police. WHY? Because he was walking around making sure people saw it. What does this do to the normal public? It freaks them out. Why would you do this? so you could have a run in with the cops. There is no other reason. They wanted something to happen. They wanted to see what reaction they would get. In this case it backfired since someone complained. Then the cops got involved and to satisfy the public they confiscated it. They did return it though. Then they went and filed a complaint against the officers. they open carried into the police station, why? once againt to get a rise out of the cops. Did not work. nobody cared in the station. Only time the gun was an issue in the station is when the officer and the guy went into the interview room where guns are not allowed and it had to be put in a locker.

 

[MACGYVR]

I am ending this back and forth with these final words.

NH is an open carry state. Your free to do what you want.

Honestly if you open carry most off the public will never even notice. People are too pre-occupied to decipher what that is hangin off your side.

Even in Mass I feel that most people would never even notice or would simply assum you were some sort of security or LEO and would go on their way.
Even an officer would probably not even think about it if he saw you.

The exception to all this is when you do stupid things to get noticed and make a point of making sure people know you have a gun.

Then they will take you for crazed lunatic and treat you in the required manner.

Words of advice, when questioned by a LEO, answer nicely and calmly the questions asked and 99% of the time they will return the niceness and you will go on your way and both will be happy. They are doing a job that pays a low salary for the crap they deal with on a day to day basis. They deserve the respect. And if you are questioned for something, ask yourself, "What did I do to get questioned?" Once you figure it out you probably will never do it again.

I am done here.

 

[namedpipes]

The so called busy body was the Ridley group themselves. They called the SPCA on themselves. They created the whole situation. "Dad's" later letter said they were building the shelter and it would be ready by ... He then said at that time, the spca guy could observe it from the road. Thats what I read in his letter someone posted here. If they called on themselves they would have ensured they were technically legal prior to the incident. Ergo they did not call - it was probably a neighbor who KNEW they didn't have the shelter.

They were waiting for the guy to show up. They were prepared. They had their camera, their guns and the whole show was setup. The video does not start at the very beginning. spca shows up and demands entrance, is denied and gets argumentative so the boy goes in and gets the camera.

...

side note
plenty of cops have an attitude problem and its even worse when its a wannabe cop. It usually comes out when antagonized. And plenty don't, but enough they make it bad for the good ones. On the other hand, there are a lot of civilians with an authority chip on their shoulder that just feel the NEED to get themselves harrassed by the cops. There are enough bad cops to ensure they get their wish.

..

 

[doobie]

They have a shelter now..... yours truly was almost killed by a falling 2x6 helping them build it.

 

[appraiser]

Now wait... there will be a visit from the building inspector to make sure it is up to code

 

[joehaus]

They are doing a job that pays a low salary for the crap they deal with on a day to day basis.

Police officers are not on salary. IMO they get paid well(subjective I know). And any officer who says they deal with crap on a daily basis obviously doesn't like his job. That is what police work is, dealing with crap. There is no shortage of qualified candidates sitting, waiting, and praying to become a police officer.

 

[Mikey]

I missed out on this thread until now and couldn't even get through it without being disgusted by the sheeple mindset many of the posters have here. What a freaking shame. Please, Ridley and the rest of you free-staters, keep up the good work. When we as a society we see it as a bad thing to question our government then as a whole we may have already lost.

 

[Half Cocked]

When we as a society we see it as a bad thing to question our government then as a whole we may have already lost.

I do not think the posters here have a problem with "questioning our government". I think the problem lies with the "tactics/antics" of Ridley and his band of merry men. IMNSHO I find his credibility to be suspect based upon his antics and I feel that he is more of an instigator than a reporter.

 

[appraiser]

OK I'll admit the "free staters" are a bit out there on some things, such as drivers licenses, vehicle registrations, etc. I personally am conservative when it comes to fiscal matter and libertarian when it comes to social matters. I'm sure my political beliefs are not everyones cup of tea either.

Do Ridley and the Free State crowd serve a useful purpose probably. Do I agree with all their tactics, no. Too many people have forgotten the intent of the founders of this country and are happy to sit back and "let the government take care of it" Ridley and the free staters certainly are not in that category.

When I lived in MA I was active in my community. I served on every little board and study committee I could get appointed to. I ran for public office several times, and was elected to some positions I sought. Nothing pisses me off more than people who complain about government this, government that, crooked politician this, crooked politician that, who never vote, who never pull nomination papers, seek appointment to positions where they could have some input to the goings on in their town, or doing something independent of government to make things better for their community.
The only way to get motion out of a dead fish is to make waves.

Ridley and friends do know how to make waves, and in the majority of their "antics" they seem to be correct on their interpretation of the law. But on the other hand when they are wrong, they get the book tossed at them in a big way.

 

[Mikey]

I do not think the posters here have a problem with "questioning our government". I think the problem lies with the "tactics/antics" of Ridley and his band of merry men. IMNSHO I find his credibility to be suspect based upon his antics and I feel that he is more of an instigator than a reporter.

You may not agree with their "tactics" but I think most people would agree with many of the results. I bet people in Manchester and other places they stir the pot are a little less likely to be harassed by the local authorities for their lawful acts. They are non-violent and get the point across within the means of the law. Besides many of the great reports in this country must instigate before they report.

 

[DadaOrwell]

I normally have little or no patience for the Ridley "civil disobedience" Free State types, but I after viewing both video's, especially the first one, I gotta admit I'd have told the self-important fat f*** from the SPCA to pound sand...

Sorry it's taken me so long to response to messages here...I didn't have much net access the last few days.

With regard to this post above, well bear in mind you might not like me...but you and your fellow tax payers are not forced to underwrite any of my activities. You might like cops...(as I do in many cases) but you and your fellow taxpayers *are* forced to underwrite *all* of their activities.

That's the most important abuse. This in-your-face jackboot made you and me underwrite what he did.

 

[DadaOrwell]

The only parallel here is you are completely ignorant of the state elections that took place in NH on Tuesday.

Also four died in the wool free staters won House seats. Even I came within a few percentage points of winning one, without campaigning. And I'm crazy ridleyrepublican guy in the year of the Obamessiah.

 

[DadaOrwell]

Sensabamc wrote:

<<Was it a public road? YES. Did she have right to walk down it? YES BUT SHE HAD NO BUSINESS WALKING DOWN IT.>>

Did you really just say that or am I reading it wrong?

 

[Bill Nance]

As I've said on this thread before: If the respondents to this matter had simply told the cops to come back with a warrant, all would hve been resolved. What they did was needlessly antagonize the cops.

As for the right to video the cops, I'd donate money to the federal lawsuit of restraining a free press. (entirely separate issue). State laws don't mean a damn thing, nor does the public employee's "request" to not be video-taped.

What part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." do you not understand mister NH cop?

Absent such a challenge, all I can do with regard to this "Ridley" attempt is to call attention to the needless and pointless drama.

Either put up or shut up. If you're honestly concerned about your constitutional rights, then act in federal court. Otherwise, STFU.

 

[DadaOrwell]

Is it possible that those opposed to ridley and his group do not oppose their work, just the way they go about doing it?

i'd welcome suggested improvements.

I take it by now the reality is beginning to sink in that we have over 600 free staters in-state now, many carrying video cameras. if each of them gets approached by a cop once a year and records it...that's over two videos a day. The fact that the number of taped run ins is more like two a week...indicates there isn't that much free stater - police interaction overall.

 

[Bill Nance]

Antagonizing the cops needlessly seems a senseless endeavor. If you're serious about the issue of having a cop take your comrade into custody for the "crime" of video-taping him, then FILE IN FEDERAL COURT.

I'll be the first person in line to donate $100 towards the costs.

Honestly, that's the only violation of rights here. Other than that it's all lameness in the extreme, mostly exacerbated by the people taking down the video.

Cops may be paid to make the "right" decisions, but they don't always do that. If you're intentionally antagonizing them just to make some goofy point, then you'll never get the sympathy which the libertarian movement in NH rightfully deserves. This isn't about principles, it's about tactics. Do it SMART.

If you engage exclusively in tactics which make 99% of normal people consider you to be maniacs, then you'll never get anywhere. Even Marx, Engels and Emma Goldman knew that. The open carry protest whilst cleaning trash made a good point. Stick to that. Show the Free-State movement to be a valuable ADDITION to the community instead of a detriment.

Do that consistently, stop picking stupid fights with the cops and even "The MAN" will support you. Otherwise you stay an irrelevant fringe group.