Neptune Cat
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Newbie question: OK to chamber a round, drop magazine and readd round?
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That's how you should do it.![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
+1
Chris
NES Member
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It's generally best to always load a gun from the magazine. The gun was designed to work that way. If the loading mechanism is spring loaded, let it fly full speed, don't 'help' it. Many bolt rifles can also be loaded one at a time and not from the magazine, but the gun usually has a special catch or function to prevent mag load until desired.
As for the OP's question, the gun was designed to be loaded +1. Be aware that in many designs getting that loaded mag into a closed action can require some effort. Can't tell you the number of Glocks I've seen drop mags on the first shot because they were not seated properly.
As for the 1911, JMB's original design had no thumb or grip safety. The Army requested these out of fear of ADs. The thumb safety actually has an extra added feature few other pistols enjoy. When made 'safe', it locks the slide so that a tight holster will not cause the gun to come out of battery when it is pushed in. While this is rarely an issue in normal life, in a military setting, that can be useful.
Also, the safety on a 1911 makes it virtually impossible for the hammer to fall while engaged. Yes, things can break, but that lockup is quite strong compared to other parts of the gun. Be aware that while the safety might prevent the gun from firing, sear/hammer wear can cause the gun to fire when the safety is turned off. For this reason, it is vital that a 1911 be pointed in a safe direction when the safety is disengaged. As mentioned earlier, early models do not have a firing pin block and can be made to fire if dropped or struck. Some argue that the added block ruins the feel of the trigger, but I've not found that to be an issue if the gun is built/tuned properly. Unfortunately, the 1911 design still requires some hand fitting and some are built better than others. A good gunsmith will clean up any quality 1911 and make the action as smooth and crisp as you read about for far less than you might think.
Another thing to remember on a 1911 is to NEVER allow the slide to slam forward when there is no round being chambered. This action causes a shock in the system that over time will wear the sear causing the hammer to eventually not remain cocked. I had heard this years ago and never gave it much thought. Then, one of my 1911's failed to remain cocked and it was one that I had used heavily in class showing how a single action auto worked. It had been slammed empty many many times. It's the only 1911 I have that has ever had this happen.
There are a ton of resources that deal with the ins and outs of just about every firearm. The trick is to search and find them. Regardless of what kind of gun you have, it is a good idea to get to know the particulars about it.
As for the OP's question, the gun was designed to be loaded +1. Be aware that in many designs getting that loaded mag into a closed action can require some effort. Can't tell you the number of Glocks I've seen drop mags on the first shot because they were not seated properly.
As for the 1911, JMB's original design had no thumb or grip safety. The Army requested these out of fear of ADs. The thumb safety actually has an extra added feature few other pistols enjoy. When made 'safe', it locks the slide so that a tight holster will not cause the gun to come out of battery when it is pushed in. While this is rarely an issue in normal life, in a military setting, that can be useful.
Also, the safety on a 1911 makes it virtually impossible for the hammer to fall while engaged. Yes, things can break, but that lockup is quite strong compared to other parts of the gun. Be aware that while the safety might prevent the gun from firing, sear/hammer wear can cause the gun to fire when the safety is turned off. For this reason, it is vital that a 1911 be pointed in a safe direction when the safety is disengaged. As mentioned earlier, early models do not have a firing pin block and can be made to fire if dropped or struck. Some argue that the added block ruins the feel of the trigger, but I've not found that to be an issue if the gun is built/tuned properly. Unfortunately, the 1911 design still requires some hand fitting and some are built better than others. A good gunsmith will clean up any quality 1911 and make the action as smooth and crisp as you read about for far less than you might think.
Another thing to remember on a 1911 is to NEVER allow the slide to slam forward when there is no round being chambered. This action causes a shock in the system that over time will wear the sear causing the hammer to eventually not remain cocked. I had heard this years ago and never gave it much thought. Then, one of my 1911's failed to remain cocked and it was one that I had used heavily in class showing how a single action auto worked. It had been slammed empty many many times. It's the only 1911 I have that has ever had this happen.
There are a ton of resources that deal with the ins and outs of just about every firearm. The trick is to search and find them. Regardless of what kind of gun you have, it is a good idea to get to know the particulars about it.
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There are alot of folks piling on here but I think the fact is this is a matter of personal comfort level with the safety. I actually agree with this statement, but also agree it leaves one more step to get loaded. Hence, I have not been comfortable being "cocked and locked" with a sensitive SA trigger and was carrying my 1911 without a round in the chamber.
The solution I finally came up with was to carry a revolver where the round is ready to go but the 10lb trigger makes it awefully hard to AD. I keep the 1911 ready to go in my home at night, but carry the revolver when I am out of the house in the day. Just picked up the Ruger LCR for this job. Fits niceley concealed and has a slightly bigger grip than the S&W competitor which I need for my longer fingers. Just my two cents.
How do you lock a Sig? The term "Cocked and Locked" only applies to single action guns with a manual safety. Cocked = hammer back, locked = safety on. Having a round in the chamber is implied. This is the proper way to carry a single action auto. Anyone who tells you otherwise is flat out wrong. If you're not comfortable with this, that's fine, but the solution is to carry a different gun, not to carry the 1911 wrong.
The proper way to carry a Sig is with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. Whether the safety should be on on double action gun that has one (92FS, 3rd gen S&W, PPK,etc) is a matter of debate.
To those of you who are 'uncomfortable with a 1911 cocked and locked......would you feel comfortable with a Glock?
With a Glock, a bang is just a light trigger pull away.
With a 1911, you must first deactivate the thumb safety, then deactivate the grip safety before you are a trigger pull away from a bang.
The 1911 is MUCH safer.
It's only trying to get over seeing that scary hammer pulled back all the time that is giving you the problems you have, I think.
I bet if the hammer were enclosed in the frame, everyone would be happy.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
With a Glock, a bang is just a light trigger pull away.
With a 1911, you must first deactivate the thumb safety, then deactivate the grip safety before you are a trigger pull away from a bang.
The 1911 is MUCH safer.
It's only trying to get over seeing that scary hammer pulled back all the time that is giving you the problems you have, I think.
I bet if the hammer were enclosed in the frame, everyone would be happy.
Is this a serious post? If you don't carry cocked than you might as well be holding a brick if you need to react quickly.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
FYI - this may be a matter for debate...BUT make sure you don't keep chambering that SAME round day after day. Why? The physical forces applied during the process can seat the bullet further and further into the casing which (here comes the debatable part) could compress the powder and cause increased pressure when that round is fired. Danger? Not sure. Wanna try it? Nope.
A bullet puller is a device which uses a light hammer tap to remove a bullet FROM a casing. I am amazed at often how LITTLE force it takes...just a good but light-moderate tap frees that bullet. The same principle acts in reverse.
Just food for thought with your safety in mind.
There's no restriction on how many can be in the mag while carrying. As long as the gun and the magazine are legal, date wise.
You can carry 25 if the mag/gun are legal.
pdm
NES Member
I like to taunt my guns as they sit, helpless, on the coffee table. I don't with the Lorcin* though, that one's just mean.
*NB: I don't own a Lorcin.
Not a debatable fact, decreasing case volume for a given load will increase the pressure. How much the pressure increases will depends on the round and the set back
[STRIKE][/STRIKE]
fixed it for you. the gun itself doesn't have to be "pre-ban", just the mag
I might add one thing NOT to do. Do not keep chamering the same round out of the mag every time. The problem of bullet set back will be created from rechambering the same round time and time again. Set back will increase chamber pressure to very high levels.
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
I did not know about the repeated loading of the same round, so the additional followup from my originally answered question has been very helpful. I believe I have loaded the current top two rounds (alternating between the two - one gets loaded in the chamber, the previously loaded round goes in the mag) into the gun 3 or 4 times each. Thanks very much for the followup advice.
Take a look at this thread.
It depends on the round and probably the gun. I chambered 3 rounds Federal HST 124gr +P 9mm in my M&P 30 times each and was unable to get any measurable setback. WWB had lots of setback.
J
Jose
Whoever told you that single action semi auto pistols like the Browning High Power and the M1911 cannot or should not be carried with a loaded chamber and a cocked hammer is a idiot. Load the chamber and cock the hammer by pulling and releasing the slide, engage thumb safety, and holster. That is all there is to it.
Striker fired pistols like Glocks and M&Ps are even simpler. Pull and release slide and holster. The safeties are automatic.
Double action/Single action: pull and release slide, decock, holster. No need to set any external safeties even if the pistol has them.
J
Jose
Bullshit
CRSIII
NES Member
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Wow! I never knew! I shudder to think of the Imminent Peril I am placed in every time I shoot an action pistol match - which is about twice a month.
Imagine the rivers of blood that must flow at the USPSA and IDPA Nationals. It's a wonder any of their members have survived.
Better yet, avoid administrative unloads/reloads whenever you can. Believe it or not, it is legal to store a loaded handgun in
a safe in MA (eg, in your own home, NOT in a vehicle) so there usually is no need to unload a carry firearm unless you're doing it away from home.
This seriously reduces the amount of pounding your carry ammo takes.
-Mike
Guys
that's what makes America so great we all have our own opinions but don't say mine are crap' I didn't and wont say yours are crap. If someone is coming at you with a knife guess what, even if you have one in the chamber your stabbed. They did this test at my club with a long time action shooter who could draw pretty quick and he lost to the knife. But one stab doesn't kill a man but one bullet does.
that's what makes America so great we all have our own opinions but don't say mine are crap' I didn't and wont say yours are crap. If someone is coming at you with a knife guess what, even if you have one in the chamber your stabbed. They did this test at my club with a long time action shooter who could draw pretty quick and he lost to the knife. But one stab doesn't kill a man but one bullet does.
I'm not sure why people are under the strong assumption that the majority of people who carry have a round chambered. From my observations at work and from other places I can confidently say that 40-50% of people who carry a semi do not chamber a round. The reason why I think people on NES never actualy admit not to chamber a round is becuase its become a cliche and easy to target thing to pounce on people who admit to it. I never carry with a round chambered. Out of 5 people I work with, only one chambers a round. The US Army Military Police units that I was attached to do not carry with a round loaded. When I was in Kosovo, not a single soldier out of a 5,000+ strong NATO force had a round chambered unless they were in situations where imminent danger was possible.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
One bullet kills a man? And all this time I've been carrying all these rounds. The good news is now I don't have to carry a mag, just one in the pipe in my 1911
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
