NEW HAMPSHIRE- Feds Want Browns' Huge Weapons Cache

[calsdad]

well I must be one of the scumbags as I dont pay income taxes.and have not for yrs.I wont starve as my garden will feed me.and my property is paid for.I dont even pay property taxes so I must be the worst.
heil hitler.pay up or the gulag.hitler had the right idea if you had a business or money round them up and send to the ovens,distribute the business to good germans.and the money into the masters maw.

WILDCATT you anti American extremist. Don't you know it is your moral obligation to sign over 1/3 to 1/2 of everything you will produce during your life to our betters?

You don't pay property tax!! You are a leech on society - how could the little kiddies get edumacated if they aren't sent to our government run schools that are all funded by our property taxes? Don't you care about children. Don't you know property taxes support the roads - how can we possibly have roads without everybody paying their fair share? Do you want us to live the dark ages you damn scum. We will all be living in caves for crying out loud if people like are allowed to run rampant!

It can't be allowed! Dammit!

You grow your own food too!? For crying out loud - next you will tell me you live in the woods you damn Unabomber wannabe!


I can't believe in today society people like you are allowed to continue on like this. I bet your a racist far right extremist who bitterly clings to his guns and his bible and is waiting for the end times.

Obama will save us - Obama and his minions are going to get you!

 

[HKdrummer]

Dirtbags don't pay their taxes, and dirtbags shouldn't have guns. The government should take them for partial payment on money owed.

I'm going to open a store....yep and sell stuff, mainly clues. Perhaps sir you would be my first and best customer.

 

[namedpipes]

The scary thing is, your post could have been lifted word for word from the du site, except they would have meant it... I don't know whether to or to

WILDCATT you anti American extremist. Don't you know it is your moral obligation to sign over 1/3 to 1/2 of everything you will produce during your life to our betters?

You don't pay property tax!! You are a leech on society - how could the little kiddies get edumacated if they aren't sent to our government run schools that are all funded by our property taxes? Don't you care about children. Don't you know property taxes support the roads - how can we possibly have roads without everybody paying their fair share? Do you want us to live the dark ages you damn scum. We will all be living in caves for crying out loud if people like are allowed to run rampant!

It can't be allowed! Dammit!

You grow your own food too!? For crying out loud - next you will tell me you live in the woods you damn Unabomber wannabe!


I can't believe in today society people like you are allowed to continue on like this. I bet your a racist far right extremist who bitterly clings to his guns and his bible and is waiting for the end times.

Obama will save us - Obama and his minions are going to get you!

 

[Lamina]

I'm going to open a store....yep and sell stuff, mainly clues. Perhaps sir you would be my first and best customer.

I think he'll have trouble finding the place.

 

[calsdad]

I think he'll have trouble finding the place.

That's because there wont' be any roads and bridges you damn tax cheat!

 

[calsdad]

The scary thing is, your post could have been lifted word for word from the du site, except they would have meant it... I don't know whether to or to

It's that predictable isn't it?

 

[HKdrummer]

I think he'll have trouble finding the place.

It will be easy to find take a left at brainwashed st. follow that down till you get sheeple avenue, half mile down located at 1 communist plaza, I'm thinking he's familar with the neighborhood.

 

[MassBites]

I think he'll have trouble finding the place.

Simple solution. He could mail him a clue......sales tax included of course.

 

[MassBites]

WILDCATT you anti American extremist. Don't you know it is your moral obligation to sign over 1/3 to 1/2 of everything you will produce during your life to our betters?..............."

You grow your own food too!? For crying out loud - next you will tell me you live in the woods you damn Unabomber wannabe!........."

I know where he lives and it isn't in the woods, but he and his wife grow a pretty nice "victory" garden.

As a member of the Greatest Generation, my hero Wildcatt has seen and done and a lot in his life. Oh and if the tax man should ever cometh, he'd better pack a lunch and bring an Army cuz Wildcat still shoots regularly and probably still competitively. I love that guy.

 

[gene]

I guess this just about sums up my reaction to this article as well. These two guys didn't have such philosophical and political reasons for not paying their taxes...and they have plenty of money. Maybe it is called the 'righteousness' of paying taxes along with your neighbor (moral), or your 'obligation', or not worth the consequencesof jail, or maybe it is just my plain jealousy of the them with all the money not paying up when I work 50 hours a week and pay up the nose. I think a combo of all that. The fact remains that they piss me off.

Yup and it pissed me off to pay more taxes than the guy that lives next to me because I work harder, make more money, don't have kids, don't pay for child care......

It also pisses me off that they keep raising the gas taxes and have been for generations under the concept that it's needed to fix roads and bridges and they don't fix them.

It pisses me off to think that most of the income taxes in the state of MA actually go to the MBTA and Social programs for not only citizens and career welfare cases but illegals as well.

It pisses me off to know that the cities and towns haven't reported how they spend their lottery dole since 2002.

It pisses me off to know that if I make 30,000 a year and pay over 2100 in medical expense I get a tax benefit but if I make 100000 per year I don't get the same benefit until I pay over 7000.00 in medical.

Who the hell ever thought taxes were fair or reasonable!
If they were reasonable by any standard and still unfair we would all pay the same amount regardless of income and deductions and it would be the minimum amount of the sum.

 

[Martlet]

Honestly, I'm glad I missed this.

 

[MaineCWPtraining]

N.H. weapons and conspiracy trial begins
Lawyer calls couple who started protest against taxes 'dangerous radicals'

June 30, 2009

CONCORD, N.H. - A retired exterminator and his dentist wife held hands and talked in court Tuesday as a prosecutor called them dangerous anti-government radicals and their lawyers said it was reasonable for them to fear for their lives.

Ed and Elaine Brown face minimum 30-year prison sentences if convicted of federal weapons and conspiracy charges stemming from a nine-month standoff with law enforcement at their Plainfield home in 2007.

MSNBC

 

[MaineCWPtraining]

Ed Brown gets 37-year sentence

Tax evader led a standoff against the U.S. marshals






By Margot Sanger-Katz
for the Monitor


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


January 12, 2010 - 12:00 am




Ed Brown was sentenced to 37 years in federal prison yesterday for his role in orchestrating the nearly nine-month standoff at his Plainfield home that attracted national attention, drew hundreds of supporters and ended when undercover U.S. marshals arrested Brown and his wife, finding the house stuffed with guns and homemade explosive devices.

The judge, George Singal, chose a sentence lower than that recommended by the federal sentencing guidelines but long enough to mean that Brown, 67, will likely die in prison. His wife, Elaine Brown, 68, who was convicted of similar crimes, was sentenced last year to 35 years in prison. Four key supporters who lived with the Browns and helped bring them guns, food and bomb-making supplies, have already been sentenced to prison terms - one for 36 years.

"It's a sad case in many ways," Singal said, before announcing the sentence. "It is sad that Mr. Brown and his beliefs have caused others to be entrapped in his web."

Brown, a retired cockroach exterminator and onetime militia leader, was unrepentant to the end. Dressed in a khaki Strafford County jail uniform, Brown refused to stand for the judge, repeatedly interrupted the proceedings with complaints and mocking laughter, and used his final opportunity to address the court to deliver a long rant about the U.S. attorney's involvement in a worldwide conspiracy to undermine the Constitution and rob individuals of their legal rights.

"I didn't hurt those men - they destroyed us," Brown said. "The Freemasons, Zionists, Jesuits, Knights Templar, the Fraternal Order of Police, the Moose Lodge. Hey, they're everywhere."

When Singal began to explain his sentencing rationale, Brown asked to leave the courtroom, and he was not present when his sentence was announced.

Prosecutors had sought a stiffer sentence, in line with federal sentencing guidelines. Brown faced a 30-year mandatory minimum sentence for one charge alone, and Assistant U.S. Attorney Arnold Huftalen asked for a total term between 47½ years and 51 years 8 months for Brown, arguing that such a sentence would deter Brown's supporters and reflected the seriousness of Brown's actions, which he said could have resulted in the deaths of many U.S. marshals if Brown had been able to use his arsenal in a "violent confrontation" with law enforcement.

"It is not an overstatement to say that no more dangerous man has been sentenced in this courthouse," Huftalen said. "Nor is it an overstatement to say, in all likelihood, no more dangerous man is likely to be sentenced in this courthouse in the coming years."

Brown's lawyer, Michael Iacopino, requested the shortest sentence possible under the law - 30 years and 1 month - arguing that Brown's age and the fact that no one was harmed during the standoff mitigated against a longer term.

"It puts him right up there with people who have killed people," Iacopino said.

Singal chose a middle ground, saying that 37 years was enough to reflect the seriousness of Brown's crimes. He expressed disappointment that Brown had shown no remorse and had failed to acknowledge his negative influence on the lives of his wife and supporters.

"I have no doubt in my mind that Mr. Brown would have killed multiple marshals had they not dealt with him so effectively," Singal said.

The federal Bureau of Prisons will determine where Brown will serve his sentence. Elaine Brown is currently incarcerated at the Federal Medical Center Carswell, a prison in Fort Worth, Texas.

The standoff Brown and his wife were first arrested in 2006 for tax evasion, after the pair refused to pay federal income taxes on more than $1.2 million that Elaine Brown had earned as a dentist. The couple represented themselves at trial in January 2007, arguing that they were not subject to federal taxes or the court's jurisdiction.

READ MORE

 

[calsdad]

This whole case is a perfect example of what the libertarians and writers like Vin Suprynowicz are talking about when they say that the government's real purpose is to make sure you stay in line and don't question their power.

The Browns never physically attacked or hurt anybody to my knowledge. Yet every day we read stories about murderers and rapists and child molesters who get sentences far less than the 37 years that Ed Brown was sentenced to.


This is a perfect example of "by their actions ye will know them". The sad part is that there are so many "Americans" who will hoot and holler and jump for joy that the Browns "got what is coming to them".

 

[MassMark]

At least he didn't talk smack about the Elks....It's sad and fair to say that Mr. Brown was not the best spokesman against the overreaching abuse of the .gov - especially the IRS. I think "wrong approach to the right idea", is in full effect here. In the end, the Browns will spend the rest of their lives in prison - I wonder why they even bothered to enter into discussion about terms on individual charges? They should have just announced it as: "Brown Gets Life In Prison". I wonder also if in the quiet moments of his incarceration, Mr. Brown regrets not going out in a hail of gunfire, rather than languishing the rest of his days at Camp Cupcake - I suppose we'll never really know....

 

[dwarven1]

Yup, can't allow the peons to defy the government's authori-tay. Why, if he'd gotten away with it, other people would have told the IRS to go stuff it, and then... Gee, they might have to downsize the government to something reasonable. And affordable.

 

[pdm]

Is that 37 years in addition to whatever he got on the tax charges?

 

[KBCraig]

Not to stir up the debate from Page 1 of this thread, but I hope those who think they pay more because of what the Browns didn't pay, will realize that if the Browns had paid not only the taxes, but also the penalties and interest (which are several times the unpaid taxes), the government would still lose money on this whole affair. They even offered to pay. No deal.

As others rightly noted, this was pour encourager les autres.

 

[buketduder]

All the money paid to the Feds in Personal Income tax CANNOT even pay the INTEREST on our National Debt...and again.why would the Govt give the power to print money to someone AND pay interest on it when the Constitution grants them the power to do it at 0% interest!!!

 

[Titan]

Someone has to fund the federal government (and yes, it should be vastly more limited in its scope).

The law is settled that income taxes are legal.

Join Wesley Snipes and the Browns if you think otherwise.

I don't exactly enjoy paying taxes but I don't expect our military men and women to defend our freedoms on their own dime.

Freedom has a cost in blood and sweat, but in dollars too.

I'll pay my share and expect others to do the same.


The arguments that we shouldn't pay because the government isn't pure, others don't pay etc. only serve as a giant cluster f....

 

[drgrant]

Someone has to fund the federal government (and yes, it should be vastly more limited in its scope).

The law is settled that income taxes are legal.

Join Wesley Snipes and the Browns if you think otherwise.

I don't exactly enjoy paying taxes but I don't expect our military men and women to defend our freedoms on their own dime.

Freedom has a cost in blood and sweat, but in dollars too.

I'll pay my share and expect others to do the same.


The arguments that we shouldn't pay because the government isn't pure, others don't pay etc. only serve as a giant cluster f....

I agree that "the law is the law" but I don't exactly lose sleep when someone evades taxes. The government is so engaged in fraud at this point, that the american taxpayer isn't (truly) paying for services anymore, but now rather to service billions upon billions in debt that the government has created.

I don't really think tax protesting (in the way the browns did it) is going to yield much, though. The government has the country by the balls via the withholding system.... even if nobody files, the government will still get 85% of whatever it thinks its owed via withholding. My gut feeling is withholding was put into place so it would be more difficult for individuals to cause the government to implode financially. It also masks the gigantic, horrendous rape event that nearly every taxpayer in this country experiences. If everyone was forced to "manually" hand over what they owed on April 13th, I don't think any of us would be having this discussion, and most of DC would be a smoldering crater caused by
legions of taxpayers with torches and pitchforks. (Have any of you bothered to look at your pay stubs lately? )

I won't even get too far into the whole "paying your share" comment.... No, you won't.... you'll probably pay more than what is "fair" and that has nothing to do with tax evaders. It has to do with the fact that the way the system is set up, it punishes those who work the hardest, in the classes that generate all the true wealth in this country.

-Mike

 

[Speedway]

Am I the only one who thinks that 30 guns is NOT a "huge cache"?

 

[Titan]

I agree that "the law is the law" but I don't exactly lose sleep when someone evades taxes. The government is so engaged in fraud at this point, that the american taxpayer isn't (truly) paying for services anymore, but now rather to service billions upon billions in debt that the government has created.

I don't really think tax protesting (in the way the browns did it) is going to yield much, though. The government has the country by the balls via the withholding system.... even if nobody files, the government will still get 85% of whatever it thinks its owed via withholding. My gut feeling is withholding was put into place so it would be more difficult for individuals to cause the government to implode financially. It also masks the gigantic, horrendous rape event that nearly every taxpayer in this country experiences. If everyone was forced to "manually" hand over what they owed on April 13th, I don't think any of us would be having this discussion, and most of DC would be a smoldering crater caused by
legions of taxpayers with torches and pitchforks. (Have any of you bothered to look at your pay stubs lately? )

I won't even get too far into the whole "paying your share" comment.... No, you won't.... you'll probably pay more than what is "fair" and that has nothing to do with tax evaders. It has to do with the fact that the way the system is set up, it punishes those who work the hardest, in the classes that generate all the true wealth in this country.

-Mike

Mike,

I suspect we agree on this more than we disagree.

 

[namedpipes]

Someone has to fund the federal government (and yes, it should be vastly more limited in its scope).

The law is settled that income taxes are legal.

Of course the government has the authority to collect taxes. Defying this is illegal although a legitimate form of of pretest.

The punishment however is so far out of line with the crime that it is hard to tell the story with a straightface.

Basically, this couple decided for whatever reason, not to pay taxes. For this they will both die in prison. Sure. That seems reasonable.

. . . If everyone was forced to "manually" hand over what they owed on April 13th, I don't think any of us would be having this discussion, and most of DC would be a smoldering crater caused by
legions of taxpayers with torches and pitchforks. (Have any of you bothered to look at your pay stubs lately? ) . . .

I, like most I suspect, think in terms of my net income. At this moment I couldn't tell you my gross monthly income without looking at a stub, but I can tell you my net (although of course I won't! )

I agree - if we had to fork over on tax day, politiicians would be a lot more responsive to our needs and there would be a lot more turnover on election day when they don't. Which is of course... why they do it this way...

Am I the only one who thinks that 30 guns is NOT a "huge cache"?

30 guns is not even a small cache.

 

[Gonzo]

Tax day should be the day before election day.

 

[terraformer]

I, like most I suspect, think in terms of my net income. At this moment I couldn't tell you my gross monthly income without looking at a stub, but I can tell you my net (although of course I won't! )

as a small business guy, I can tell you both but my doc doesnt want my blood pressure that high.

 

[NHAtHeart]

I happen to think that federal taxes are unjustly levied and the govt requiring you to pay them is illegal.

You're probably right that it results in raising taxes for the rest of the people who pay them.

The way I see it:
If everyone is on a boat and the captain says he wants you to pay an additional $100 each (on top of your ticket) in order to arrive at your destination...and you decide against paying what you consider an "illegal" fee then then the others may have to cover the difference. However the blame should not go to the person who declined to fund or partake in an illegal act, but should be placed upon the captain who initiated the act.

But again that's just me.

There are a lot of people who never file...and they don't get their homes raided. Ed and Elaine happened to have paid taxes before which is better than millions of people living in the US.

I wonder why we sometimes treat our own citizens much worse than illegal citizens.

I know this is old but it's the first time I read it, excellent comment +1!

 

[swampy]

Dirtbags don't pay their taxes, and dirtbags shouldn't have guns. The government should take them for partial payment on money owed.

thats fine if the feds plan on reselling them to recoup some money but I figure they'll destroy them. If the Browns sold the guns to pay legal fees however I don't see how the feds can take them...unless they were under a restraining order not to dispose of assets.

 

[AKman]

There are 50 tax cheats seated in Washington right now. Why can't they even police themselves? Why is it ok for them to evade taxes but not you or I or the Brown's? Look to DC for the dirtbags. I have no problem paying taxes. I do however have a problem with the way the filth in DC chooses to use the tax money collected from me. No 30 guns is not a huge collection. That's just a start.

 

[VARCHAR2]

I have to give credit where credit is due. The Browns did with gumption what many Americans would love to do but only dream of. Talk about cajones.

Also, this comment from one of the NH news sites (forget which), and I'm paraphrasing: "Gribble and Spader will be out before them." True or not, it helps put this in context in terms of punishment (not) fitting the crime and in terms of where the priorities are.