New AR-15 occasionally fails to lock bolt into battery

Rob893

Rob893

Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
174
Likes
13
Location
N. Central MA
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
I got a brand-new WW-15 (Windham Weaponry AR-15), my first AR, and after getting it sighted in I like it a lot. I find it shoots straight and I haven't had any issues with it except this one.

Out of 300 rounds, 4 or 5 times — always in the middle of a magazine, never right after mag insertion — the bolt would fail to travel all the way forward. It would feed the next round just fine, but stop about an inch back. At that point the trigger pulls and I think "misfire" and drop the mag, keeping the rifle pointed toward the target. Visual inspection shows slightly open bolt and a pristine round in the chamber. Now the forward assist will do nothing and the charging handle will not move the bolt forward or back by pushing or pulling on it. Wait a few seconds and the charging handle pulls the bolt all the way back quite easily. Let it go, it snaps forward like it should and seats right up snug in the battery like it ought to. Then it will finish the mag just fine, maybe another full mag or two, but then the same problem happens.

I've been running it wet, like people say to do, using Ballistol which was recommended to me, and I cleaned it thoroughly after the first firing of 100 rounds. No hang-ups with the first hundred, btw.

I'm wondering: Could the problem be that I've been shooting the steel WPA .223 the shop sold me with the rifle (I didn't think to specify brass, or that I might need to do so). Or does the rifle just need more of a break-in period? Something else, maybe? I'd appreciate any ideas.
 
Does it only happen with one magazine?
Have you only fed it steel case .223?

Ammo marked 5.56 is hotter. A few hundred rounds of full power 5.56 should do any braking in needed. Then, scrub the chamber well with a bronze brush and cleaner. The chamber and bore should not be 'wet' with oil. The bolt and carrier should be somewhat clean, but more importantly well oiled.
 
SJan said:
Does it only happen with one magazine?
Have you only fed it steel case .223?

Ammo marked 5.56 is hotter. A few hundred rounds of full power 5.56 should do any braking in needed. Then, scrub the chamber well with a bronze brush and cleaner. The chamber and bore should not be 'wet' with oil. The bolt and carrier should be somewhat clean, but more importantly well oiled.
Click to expand...

All I've shot so far is from the box of 500 WPA steel case .223 — fired 400 rounds of them. I'm holding back on the last 100 and going to try brass next. I will look for the 5.56 as you say and see if it makes any difference.

BTW, I bought a special Otis 5.56 chamber brush to scrub the "star" pattern and chamber and both me and my son put a lot of elbow grease into it, with solvent.

Also, it's happened on both 30-round preban mags the shop sold me. The 10-round that came with the gun didn't exhibit the problem, but I only used that for the first 100 rounds. Maybe it could be a mag issue? Except why would the bolt "freeze" for a few seconds even with the mag removed?
 
Last edited:
Rob893 said:
All I've shot so far is from the box of 500 WPA steel case .223 — fired 400 rounds of them. I'm holding back on the last 100 and going to try brass next. I will look for the 5.56 as you say and see if it makes any difference.

BTW, I bought a special Otis 5.56 chamber brush to scrub the "star" pattern and chamber and both me and my son put a lot of elbow grease into it, with solvent.

Also, it's happened on both 30-round preban mags the shop sold me. The 10-round that came with the gun didn't exhibit the problem, but I only used that for the first 100 rounds. Maybe it could be a mag issue? Except why would the bolt "freeze" for a few seconds even with the mag removed?
Click to expand...

Not to sound condescending, but those are called locking lugs. I only tell you just in case you're around veteran gun owners or looking for a cleaner/brush, now you know the actual name of it. It sounds to me like the gun is dirty, but the AR can function absolutely filthy. WPA is very dirty and generally I'd advise you to stay away from steel cased ammo but it shouldn't matter too much. I love WPA, it gives a HUGE muzzle flash.

It could be the mag follower, I had something similar happen to my friend using my AR-15, and I realized he loaded the rounds wrong. There is a wrong way to load them in. Good luck.
 
ColdDayInHell said:
Not to sound condescending, but those are called locking lugs. I only tell you just in case you're around veteran gun owners or looking for a cleaner/brush, now you know the actual name of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and no offense taken. As I say, it's my first AR. Nobody is born knowing this stuff.
 
Try taking the bolt carrier out of the upper, then remove the bolt from the carrier. Put the carrier back in the upper without the bold and try sliding it back and forth. It should slide smoothly and not catch on the gas rod. It's somewhat subjective--you might feel a little click as the gas rod inserts into the gas key, which is okay. But otherwise if the gas rod is off center it might need to be bent back into alignment.

Then put the bolt back in and try sliding it back and forth again--do you feel any obstructions?

Also, you can pop out the buffer and clean the spring. There are two schools of thought here:

1) the maker puts a little bit of grease on the spring to aid break in, in which case I would clean that off at this point or

2) the maker leaves the spring dry (as designed), in which case you could try putting a PEA SIZED amount of grease on the spring and work it in, then shoot it a bit, then clean the spring in the future.
 
http://www.armalite.com/Categories.aspx?Category=35e8a0b0-7e71-4af3-b335-53f4a7dc8f08 I was pointed to this when I first started shooting ARs some time ago. Theres a ton of good info here scroll all the way down to tech note 1. then go through them and read what might apply.
I have been useing armalites cleaning and lube directions from day one.
Personally if your ar wont swallow chew and spit out steel cased ammo theres gotta be something up.....
I have a stag model H2 and a throw together parts gun that eat a steady diet of steel cased fodder, anything.
only ammo that I ever had issues with is bulk remington UMC. I lost count at 3k plus. I dont get to crazy with cleaning. quick bore clean and wipe down add a little lube.
You mention no issues "until the 30 rounders" I would try the ten rounders no jams try the 30 rounders if they jam tear them down clean them and replace the springs and followers. I would get rid of the 30 rounders and by some 20 rounders 30 rounders just get in the way, bump into everything ect ect.

Or start from square 1. completely clean the rifle per field strip and clean directions, dissasemble mags and clean them, you dont want your rifle so wet with lube that it drips off the bolt onto the ammo. Make sure to swip bore and chamber dry before shooting.

Im not familure with WW's ARs are they running 5.56 nato chamber ?
 
Take 5-10 mags load each one with 1 round of ammo. fire all the mags, the bolt should lock back on every mag, if it doesnt you could have a gas issue, I would number each mag and see if it only happnes with certain mags or on all mags. I would also try using a better quality brass cased ammo. I have been to Colts armorers class twice and also a Pat Dunlap class and never has any of them said anything good about steel cased ammo and the AR YMMV
 
mac1911 said:
http://www.armalite.com/Categories.aspx?Category=35e8a0b0-7e71-4af3-b335-53f4a7dc8f08 I was pointed to this when I first started shooting ARs some time ago. Theres a ton of good info here scroll all the way down to tech note 1. then go through them and read what might apply.
I have been useing armalites cleaning and lube directions from day one.
Personally if your ar wont swallow chew and spit out steel cased ammo theres gotta be something up.....
I have a stag model H2 and a throw together parts gun that eat a steady diet of steel cased fodder, anything.
only ammo that I ever had issues with is bulk remington UMC. I lost count at 3k plus. I dont get to crazy with cleaning. quick bore clean and wipe down add a little lube.
You mention no issues "until the 30 rounders" I would try the ten rounders no jams try the 30 rounders if they jam tear them down clean them and replace the springs and followers. I would get rid of the 30 rounders and by some 20 rounders 30 rounders just get in the way, bump into everything ect ect.

Or start from square 1. completely clean the rifle per field strip and clean directions, dissasemble mags and clean them, you dont want your rifle so wet with lube that it drips off the bolt onto the ammo. Make sure to swip bore and chamber dry before shooting.

Im not familure with WW's ARs are they running 5.56 nato chamber ?
Click to expand...

Thanks, the specs say ".223 Rem / 5.56mm NATO," so yeah.

The weapon has been cleaned to within an inch of its life and lightly lubed and wiped with lint-free tissues. I plan to try the 10-round mag for the next 100 rounds of steel, then put brass through both 10s and 30s. If I'm still getting the occasional problem I will take it to the shop and see what they think.

- - - Updated - - -

stinx said:
Take 5-10 mags load each one with 1 round of ammo. fire all the mags, the bolt should lock back on every mag, if it doesnt you could have a gas issue, I would number each mag and see if it only happnes with certain mags or on all mags. I would also try using a better quality brass cased ammo. I have been to Colts armorers class twice and also a Pat Dunlap class and never has any of them said anything good about steel cased ammo and the AR YMMV
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. The issue is not with the bolt not locking back on empty — that has never happened with this weapon — but with it failing to lock into the battery once in a while.
 
One thing I would do is when it fails to go into battery....drop the mag, and inspect the top round for damage. Bent feed lips and/or a wonky follower could be causing the round in the magazine to interfere with the bolts travel.
 
atmay said:
One thing I would do is when it fails to go into battery....drop the mag, and inspect the top round for damage. Bent feed lips and/or a wonky follower could be causing the round in the magazine to interfere with the bolts travel.
Click to expand...

this. when i put my barrel in the feed ramps just didn't quite match up with the upper and some gentle filing smoothed those little bastards right out.
 
atilla said:
this. when i put my barrel in the feed ramps just didn't quite match up with the upper and some gentle filing smoothed those little bastards right out.
Click to expand...

Totally talking about different things here brosef, but also what you said.

Take a peek at how the barrel extension and upper receiver meet. Feed ramp should smoothly transition.
 
I would also go with the sugggestion that you look at the gas key / gas tube to see if it is hanging up there. If it was stuck, it would not go into battery. Check for a loose gas key and the tube being bent.
 
1903Collector said:
Start simple...try different ammo....see if problem persists. You may have just gotten a shitty batch of ammo. Try some Lake city or PPU.
Click to expand...

+1

I was having this same problem yesterday with some crapy reloads i was giving. The bolt wouldnt lock so i looked closer at the ammo the shoulders of the rounds were slightly crushed (over tightened sizing die) . I then tried some SS109 and ran two mags with out an issue
 
i've never fired steel cased through my new AR, i know SKSRay complains that his won't shoot steel cased (his mini-14 eats everything though)
try brass like other have suggested, clean the thing and take a look at the feed ramps where the upper receiver and barrel come together.... should be a pretty smooth transition....

feedramps2.jpg


mine had sharp edges that were catching the cases (bolt was more than an inch back though.....) stoning the sharp edges cured that.....
 
Update: I took apart the rifle again just now and slid the bolt carrier in and out several times. I noticed a slight feel of metal contacting metal just about at the point the bolt assembly begins to enter the locking lugs. To rule out any issue with the bolt, I removed the bolt assembly and slid the bolt carrier in by itself. I still feel the metal-on-metal contact at the point that the bolt carrier key encounters the gas tube. The tube itself looks like it moves slightly. I don't know if this kind of light contact is normal or permissible, but it happens on this rifle.


bolt.jpg

The picture shows the distance at which I feel the contact. I didn't take a picture at the range, but the amount the bolt carrier was open looks about the same.

Note that the bolt carrier still slides easily all the way in when operated manually, with or without the bolt assembly.
 
Last edited:
inerlogic said:
i've never fired steel cased through my new AR, i know SKSRay complains that his won't shoot steel cased (his mini-14 eats everything though)
try brass like other have suggested, clean the thing and take a look at the feed ramps where the upper receiver and barrel come together.... should be a pretty smooth transition....

feedramps2.jpg


mine had sharp edges that were catching the cases (bolt was more than an inch back though.....) stoning the sharp edges cured that.....
Click to expand...

Thanks. My feed ramps look like the ones on the top right, maybe even better. The cuts look more flush on mine, with no lip at all from outer to inner, as if they'd been machined together in that same position.
 
When i got mine put together i Had the same problem. It was a rifle length gas system and had a combination of problems. first i had to use brass ammo, and second the rifle buffer was to light i had to use a T3 heavey buffer. after that it ran good and still shoots steel cased ammo with an occasional problem

If its from Brand new from the factory like you say send it back if the brass ammo dosent fix the problem.
 
Rob893 said:
Update: I took apart the rifle again just now and slid the bolt carrier in and out several times. I noticed a slight feel of metal contacting metal just about at the point the bolt assembly begins to enter the locking lugs. To rule out any issue with the bolt, I removed the bolt assembly and slid the bolt carrier in by itself. I still feel the metal-on-metal contact at the point that the bolt carrier key encounters the gas tube. The tube itself looks like it moves slightly. I don't know if this kind of light contact is normal or permissible, but it happens on this rifle.


View attachment 38033

The picture shows the distance at which I feel the contact. I didn't take a picture at the range, but the amount the bolt carrier was open looks about the same.

Note that the bolt carrier still slides easily all the way in when operated manually, with or without the bolt assembly.
Click to expand...

take the handguards off. with the bolt still out of the carrier, slide the carrier back and forth like before but push on the gas tube where it is under the handguards. By pushing it in different directions you can make it flex and move where it lines up with the gas key. This is a good test as to how smooth you can make the transition.

With the handguards off look at where the gas tube passes through the notch in the barrel nut. Is the barrel nut contacting the tube at all on either side??--it shouldn't. Does the nut seem tight??--you shouldn't be able to move it all with your fingers.

Lastly, if you want to bend the tube try flexing the tube under the handguards and play around with it some. When you push one way on the tube under the handguard it typically flexes in the opposite direction inside the upper. Then to "adjust" you just push or pull the gas tube in the direction it needs to go inside the upper. A flat screw driver works but put a rag around it as to not scratch anything. If it needs to go straight down (as in towards you) you need some sort of mini pry bar. Take an old standard screw driver and bend the end at a 90 degree angle and use it to pull on the gas tube.
 
Last edited:
Another_David said:
take the handguards off. with the bolt still out of the carrier, slide the carrier back and forth like before but push on the gas tube where it is under the handguards. By pushing it in different directions you can make it flex and move where it lines up with the gas key. This is a good test as to how smooth you can make the transition.

With the handguards off look at where the gas tube passes through the notch in the barrel nut. Is the barrel nut contacting the tube at all on either side??--it shouldn't. Does the nut seem tight??--you shouldn't be able to move it all with your fingers.

Lastly, if you want to bend the tube try flexing the tube under the handguards and play around with it some. When you push one way on the tube under the handguard it typically flexes in the opposite direction inside the upper. Then to "adjust" you just push or pull the gas tube in the direction it needs to go inside the upper. A flat screw driver works but put a rag around it as to not scratch anything. If it needs to go straight down (as in towards you) you need some sort of mini pry bar. Take an old standard screw driver and bend the end at a 90 degree angle and use it to pull on the gas tube.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I did as you said and with the handguards off I can definitely see movement in the tube each time the gas key encounters the gas tube, also hear and feel a slight scraping click. I did some gentle pushing with a cushioned screwdriver against the tube, but didn't really bend it at all even though I moved it quite a bit. My feeling is that there is probably a tool for this kind of work (like the pipe-bending tools plumbers use), and that if I use too much force with a screwdriver I might bend it too much or, worse, put a crimp in the tube. Maybe I'll find some more guts (or have some beers) and give it another go, but the way I feel now I'll probably just shoot a few hundred rounds of brass through it and if there aren't any problems I'll let that go. If there are problems, I'll take it in and have it looked at. I do appreciate your input, though. Taking the handguards off and doing what you said definitely confirms the issue.
 
If its a new rifle - I would reach out to the manufacturer and see what they have to say. I would not recommend modifying anything beyond the cleaning recommended in the manual. If that doesn't fix it then something isn't right and it should be repaired under warranty by the manufacturer - not by you.
Your efforts to do so MAY even void your warranty.

There are some AR veterans here who would have no fear tearing it apart and repairing it. I wouldn't either. But it shouldn't be necessary on a new rifle. Send it back...
 
Rob893 said:
Thanks. I did as you said and with the handguards off I can definitely see movement in the tube each time the gas key encounters the gas tube, also hear and feel a slight scraping click. I did some gentle pushing with a cushioned screwdriver against the tube, but didn't really bend it at all even though I moved it quite a bit. My feeling is that there is probably a tool for this kind of work (like the pipe-bending tools plumbers use), and that if I use too much force with a screwdriver I might bend it too much or, worse, put a crimp in the tube. Maybe I'll find some more guts (or have some beers) and give it another go, but the way I feel now I'll probably just shoot a few hundred rounds of brass through it and if there aren't any problems I'll let that go. If there are problems, I'll take it in and have it looked at. I do appreciate your input, though. Taking the handguards off and doing what you said definitely confirms the issue.
Click to expand...

There are tools but they're not all that sophisticated. You could probably use a popsicle stick. If you have some metal and a drill or dremel you could make your own. For the up and down adjustment I use a medium sized screw driver that's bent at a 90 degree at the end--like a little pry bar--and I use the flat side of that to push or pull. For left or right adjustment I have a very wide standard screw driver that I use the flat side to push the tube left or right. You typically have to push it further than you want it to move then it rebounds back a bit. It's never going to be perfect.

Like I said before, I wouldn't make any irreversible changes to it--I'd send it back first. I think adjusting the gas tube is something worth knowing how to do. Replacement tubes are like $12. Worst thing you can do is scratch up the inside of the upper if you're a brute, which is why I suggested using a rag or patches around the tool or the upper just to be extra safe. And also, I always use the flat SIDE of the screw driver, never the tip or edge.

More than likely this failure to cycle is a combination of elements: cheap ammo, some gas tube alignment interferences, maybe too heavy a buffer for the load, maybe a new strong recoil spring, maybe a little leakage in the gas port, etc. But adjust it the best you can and go with it!
 

Similar threads

First AR-15 build advice
2 3 4
Replies
109
Views
4K
fshalor
fshalor
Browning X-Bolt 2
Replies
0
Views
142
wjsmall97
W
Bolt guns
2
Replies
45
Views
2K
DarkJoker33
DarkJoker33
Ar ammo issue? And more
Replies
8
Views
336
SJan
SJan
Got a new sub machine gun in today
Replies
3
Views
319
Rocky Mosasaurus
Rocky Mosasaurus
Back
Top Bottom