DarthRevan
NES Member
Depends on the brake you choose. Labor is typically cheap on a job like that. Ask around your local shops for a final answer.
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I now need to look into a keltec for my beretta.....
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Need help finding a first rifle.
- Thread starter aznmunkay
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I now need to look into a keltec for my beretta.....
goodzilla
NES Member
+2, save up and put your price point at 600, and get the AR.
Varmint
NES Member
I remember seeing a story here recently about a guy who went down some suburban neighborhood shooting at one house after another. Rifle would come in handy when he gets to your house.
fencer
NES Member
I think it depends on where you live and the type of rifle. I have a 30-30 lever action trapper with a 16" barrel that a good friend gave me that is pretty handy, and my nearest neighbor is a few hundred feet away. Pretty doubtful that a round would get through a person, my wall, travel 300 feet, go through my neighbors wall, and still have enough left to do much damage.
If I could only have one firearm it would definitely be a rifle. It would probably be an AK, but it would be a rifle for sure.
When i was a kid, my next door neighbor was cleaning his 30-30 hunting rifle outside and it went off. Went through his house, interior walls, a hundred feet through his neighbors house went out the other side and kept going. Bullets can be hard to stop
fencer
NES Member
Was a lucky shot. Even if you missed the studs, if you fired a round at my house you are going to pass through at least 10 layers of sheet rock, 7" of fiberglass insulation, and two exterior walls that have cement/fiberglass Hardie siding on them and a sheet of plywood. Not to mention closets full of clothes, furniture, book shelves etc. and that is all assuming you never touch the framework.
Sure, there are two doorways that if you were lucky enough to find would reduce the interior wall count, and windows too, but it is very unlikely that a round would get through all that and still have enough left to get through my neighbors wall. Especially a 30-30 with it's blunt nose.
This is an interesting statement...
I don't have a lot of experience with rifles so I'm not challenging you, but, I keep a spreadsheet of ammunition ballistics and what I've found is:
The 9x19mm has between 323 and 362 ft/lbs of torque or energy at the muzzle (depending on manufacturer. this is for standard factory ammo.) This cartridge maintains about 80% to 85% of it's energy over 50 yards.
The 5.56 NATO cartridge (Hornady Super Performance Match, others may vary) has muzzle energy of about 1410 ft/lbs and maintains about 85% of it's energy over 100 yards.
I use 50 yds for pistol ammo data and 100 yds for rifle ammo data.
I don't have ballistic coefficients (BC) for all the cartridges on my sheet but the BC I do have says about 0.12 for 9mm and 0.4 for 5.56.
I use torque since it considers velocity and mass of the projectile. While the 9mm is a heavier bullet, 115 grain, and the 5.56 at 75 grain, the 9mm travels at 1190 muzzle and the 5.56 at 2910 muzzle.
Anyway, that is the data I have for what it is worth. I'm happy to share the spreadsheet.
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You could buy a 10/22 and a cheap shotgun for close to your budget. The 10/22 is a great range rifle but not sure i would want to use it for home defense.
Some used shotguns can be had pretty cheap.
Some used shotguns can be had pretty cheap.
For a beginner I would say either 10-22 or pistol caliber carbine. They are easy to handle and ammo is relatively cheap. Get to a safety class. I think Hunter Safety Courses are the best value for beginners then work your way up to instructor so you can spread the faith.
Well, there's the Remington, Ruger, Marlin, Savage bolt or semi-auto .22's.
Otherwise, some of these are pretty similar to your quest:
Suggestions for non-22 affordable long gun
Hi-Point 9 mm for home defense?
Carbine Suggestions?
Anyone own the Hipoint 9mm carbine?
The Hi Point...wow, it doesn't suck!
Ugh, I wrote a long reply to this, but basically it boiled down to this:
Rifles are not easy to work in close quarters. If you want a rifle, get you one. Just know moving through a house in a force on force situation isn't easy to do right.
Home defense, I have pistols. Cheaper to train with, more fun to plink. Greater skill needed to use well, which is a downside to a pistol.
Rifles are not easy to work in close quarters. If you want a rifle, get you one. Just know moving through a house in a force on force situation isn't easy to do right.
Home defense, I have pistols. Cheaper to train with, more fun to plink. Greater skill needed to use well, which is a downside to a pistol.
Taipan01
NES Member
Not sure why a rifle unless your stymied with just an FID. Just my thoughts but I'd rather a decent handgun over a rifle or shotgun for your requirements unless you have a wide open floor plan. I'm not sure why you would need distance in outside use either if your in a defensive posture. I'm sure everyone here would love a quad 50 as a just in case, just as easy to clear most normal houses as with an SKS. Try turning a corner holding a broom stick to see what I mean.
Also, you can't just plug someone for boosting a tv or giving you the stink eye, not in this state anyway. As for capping the guy walking down the street taking pop shots at houses, I'm pretty sure by the time it's all over with, you probably wish you didn't. It's called a basement. Sad but true.
Your also a bit short on coin to get something worth having. Prior to all the panic buying, sure, not now. Ak's could be had with 2 30 round mags, sling, oiler and so on for about $250.00, now they go 5-6 for the same one and that's now that the buying spree has waned. Christ, WASR's were well over a thousand at the height.
There are a lot of good handguns that can be had in your price point, esp in the used department. One case would be a RIA 1911. I don't have one but I've shot them. Good pistol for the money. There are also a lot of 9mm in the plastic fantastic models that are good buys for your needs.
Whatever you choose, make sure it fits. Half the battle of proficiency is comfort and fit. In my case, I prefer the grip angle, heft and ergonomics of a 1911 over a Glocks. Nothing wrong with a Glock, just personal preference. You'll also want to practice. Lots and lots of it so it becomes an extension of yourself. And finally, it has to be reliable. Use what it was designed for with ammunition selections. Again using the 1911 or my PPK/S or any of my other autos so as I'm not pushing a 1911 on you, I use just FMJ's. Opposite in my revolvers as I use only hollow points. If you really want to ruin someones day, try a wad cutter.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Also, you can't just plug someone for boosting a tv or giving you the stink eye, not in this state anyway. As for capping the guy walking down the street taking pop shots at houses, I'm pretty sure by the time it's all over with, you probably wish you didn't. It's called a basement. Sad but true.
Your also a bit short on coin to get something worth having. Prior to all the panic buying, sure, not now. Ak's could be had with 2 30 round mags, sling, oiler and so on for about $250.00, now they go 5-6 for the same one and that's now that the buying spree has waned. Christ, WASR's were well over a thousand at the height.
There are a lot of good handguns that can be had in your price point, esp in the used department. One case would be a RIA 1911. I don't have one but I've shot them. Good pistol for the money. There are also a lot of 9mm in the plastic fantastic models that are good buys for your needs.
Whatever you choose, make sure it fits. Half the battle of proficiency is comfort and fit. In my case, I prefer the grip angle, heft and ergonomics of a 1911 over a Glocks. Nothing wrong with a Glock, just personal preference. You'll also want to practice. Lots and lots of it so it becomes an extension of yourself. And finally, it has to be reliable. Use what it was designed for with ammunition selections. Again using the 1911 or my PPK/S or any of my other autos so as I'm not pushing a 1911 on you, I use just FMJ's. Opposite in my revolvers as I use only hollow points. If you really want to ruin someones day, try a wad cutter.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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A good first rifle is the 10/22 but if you want a center fired rifle a mosin nagant would easily fit in your budget. For hd get a pump shotgun and you're under 400 for both
Taipan01
NES Member
I know it's posted for any SKS owners. Saw those before. Kinda jacks the OP's budget up a couple hundred though.
You can add it later. It also has the best trigger on any bullpup I know of.
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For God's sake why??? You get useless in 2 formats!!!
Hey origin, you are absolutely correct in the higher energy of the 223 over the 9mm. However, the 223 bullets are so light that they tend to more or less explode and tumble on first contact. If that contact is in a soft target, this means a really good energy dump. If it is a wall, this means that the bullet won't go too much farther. Check out the tests done by the box of truth guys, the FBI, and this guy: http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html It seems like 9mm usually penetrates about twice as far as 223, even though its initial energy is much lower.
Makes perfect sense. Thank you.
So, I guess, theoretically, the benefit of .223 should be a smaller distance between point of aim and point of impact vs 9mm at long distance. I was looking at the 9mm M&P rifle. I'll have to look at trajectories next. There is such a price range in .223 AR's and .223 is much more expensive. I'm wondering if it's worth looking into the M&P 9mm... Whats the deal with the ones made after 2012? Rumors of lesser quality due to fast manufacture?
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What do you think of the Mossberg MVP Varmint in 5.56?
I've had a chance to run that Ruger .308 and it shoots GREAT. Very comfortable recoil with the factory buttstock. The factory sights were a breeze. Had no trouble plinking a 12" plate at 100 yards and I'm not even a good marksman.
+1 for the Ruger Scout
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