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More cowardice and inertia

S

Scrivener

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Police arrest man in Pa. subway hammer attack

9/10/2008 7:57:00 AM
Associated Press/AP Online

PHILADELPHIA - Police have arrested a man suspected of brutally attacking a dozing subway passenger with a hammer while other riders did nothing to stop the assault, the city's police commissioner said Wednesday.

The suspect, taken into custody in a mental institution late Tuesday, has a lengthy record of rape and other convictions, Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey said on NBC's "Today."

The victim was treated and released from a hospital.

Ramsey criticized other riders for standing by when the assailant entered the train with his 5-year-old son, directed the boy to a seat, calmly pulled a hammer from a backpack and attacked a man dozing in a nearby seat.

At least 10 other riders were in the car when the attack occurred last week, yet no one interfered as the man repeatedly struck the victim in the train car and later out on a platform, Ramsey said on "Today."
Click to expand...

Well, thank heaven the attacker didn't have a gun - someone might have been hurt!

Finally, this amazing statement from a Philadelphia Police Commissioner:

"They better pray they're never a victim, because if someone was attacking them that way they would certainly hope someone would step forward and help, and it starts with stepping forward and doing something yourself," Ramsey said.
Click to expand...

It is indeed amazing when a Philadelphia police commissioner has a better grasp of self-defense/defense of others than our own AG.
 
While the police commissioner may understand self defense, isn't it difficult to get a ccw permit in philly?


If so, I would say he understands but he forgot to tell people to carry hammers!
 
bostonasphalt2 said:
While the police commissioner may understand self defense, isn't it difficult to get a ccw permit in philly?


If so, I would say he understands but he forgot to tell people to carry hammers!
Click to expand...
IIRC there is an ordinace that requires you to have a special permit to carry or even own a firearm in Philly were you wouldn't need one anywhere else in PA.
 
Without a firearm or OC, how many of us REALLY would have gone after that guy swinging a hammer? {/Rhetorical] I don't mean how many SAY they would.
 
this is what exactly will happen when more gun laws gets more twisted causing us owners cant posses a firearm. Next thing we know is that swords will be banned and stuff. Because once the "guns" gets banned or what not, people in general would be using what? pipes? bats?

Wonder what the press/media would be doing if that guy actually had a handgun instead of a hammer. Bet the media or news would never say anything about his convictions or mental status, just more stupidity about handguns.

gah idk what to exactly say but this gets me. however sure was glad to read that the assailant didnt have a hand gun.
 
bvet4dog said:
this is what exactly will happen when more gun laws gets more twisted causing us owners cant posses a firearm. Next thing we know is that swords will be banned and stuff. Because once the "guns" gets banned or what not, people in general would be using what? pipes? bats?

Wonder what the press/media would be doing if that guy actually had a handgun instead of a hammer. Bet the media or news would never say anything about his convictions or mental status, just more stupidity about handguns.

gah idk what to exactly say but this gets me. however sure was glad to read that the assailant didnt have a hand gun.
Click to expand...

Not only would it have been a shitstorm if he had used a handgun, you know it would've been front page on the paper the next day "CRAZED MAN SHOOTS PASSENGER WITH 50 CALIBER ASSAULT PISTOL". Or some such nonsense.
 
Hammers don't kill, people with hammers kill.
They really should outlaw those dangerous, assault hammers (especially the black ones).
 
depicts said:
Without a firearm or OC, how many of us REALLY would have gone after that guy swinging a hammer? {/Rhetorical] I don't mean how many SAY they would.
Click to expand...

An extremely valid question.

However, there were 10 bystanders. If only 4 acted, the attack would almost certainly have been terminated.

Those who carry knives (probably most on this forum) wold literally "have an edge" in such an encounter.
 
Scrivener said:
An extremely valid question.

However, there were 10 bystanders. If only 4 acted, the attack would almost certainly have been terminated.

Those who carry knives (probably most on this forum) wold literally "have an edge" in such an encounter.
Click to expand...

That is part of the problem. Seeing an attack like that riding the T out to riverside, I know pretty darn well if I step in hoping others will help, I'm on my own. Too many sheeple in the inner cities. Had that been on the corner of the street in Winchendon there would have been 5 or 10 guys stopping their car to stop the attack.
 
NWanner said:
IIRC there is an ordinace that requires you to have a special permit to carry or even own a firearm in Philly were you wouldn't need one anywhere else in PA.
Click to expand...

IIRC PA has state level preemption and the state has told mayor street to "go f**k himself" on more than one occasion, but this still doesn't stop them from creating illegal requirements, etc. IIRC a court actually had to force philly to issue CCWs on a "shall issue" basis. (like the rest of the state).

Philadumpia is one of the last places I would want to be WRT having to use a gun in self defense. The city is anti-gun to the core, anything that can be twisted against the gun owner, can and will be.

-Mike
 
Scrivener said:
An extremely valid question.

However, there were 10 bystanders. If only 4 acted, the attack would almost certainly have been terminated.

Those who carry knives (probably most on this forum) wold literally "have an edge" in such an encounter.
Click to expand...

In this state, I'd think 4 people (strangers) acting to help another is a fantasy. 1 or 2 at the most. If there were a group of guys, or ladies, that knew each other, and were capable of helping in this situation then that's a different story. I don't think 4 strangers would come together that quickly though to stop an attack like that.

Can't say whether or not I'd act alone to help the guy since I'm not in that situation. We can sit here all day and say how we'd react but when it comes down to it, this is all talk. I'd like to think that I would help this guy out but until I'm in that situation (hopefully never), I won't know.
 
derek said:
That is part of the problem. Seeing an attack like that riding the T out to riverside, I know pretty darn well if I step in hoping others will help, I'm on my own. Too many sheeple in the inner cities. Had that been on the corner of the street in Winchendon there would have been 5 or 10 guys stopping their car to stop the attack.
Click to expand...

I don't think it''s so much a question of WHERE as it is of WHO.

If two or more members of NES were there, I think they would pass a look at each other and "go for it", and try to help. That's the mentality of this group for the most part. But I'm about half the size of the guy swinging the hammer. Without a buddy to help, I don't know if I could have stopped the attack with my bare hands. Two "committed" people though, should be able to put the maniac down, at least long enough to take his hammer away.

The people on that train are all atonomous,, they really don't know each other... or even want to. It's still hard to believe that 2 or 3 of them didn't jump in. Guess I'll keep carrying.
 
I agree with Derek. If I was going to intervene, I figure I'd be on my own.

Whether I'd intervene of not would depend entirely on how big the hammer guy was. If I thought I could take him, I'd do it. If you move fast enough, you'd maybe have to walk through one hammer swing tops, then you'd be on him.

Of course, if I thought he was coming after me (and I was unarmed - which would be unlikely) I'd go after him like my life depended on it.
 
drgrant said:
IIRC PA has state level preemption and the state has told mayor street to "go f**k himself" on more than one occasion, but this still doesn't stop them from creating illegal requirements, etc. IIRC a court actually had to force philly to issue CCWs on a "shall issue" basis. (like the rest of the state).

Philadumpia is one of the last places I would want to be WRT having to use a gun in self defense. The city is anti-gun to the core, anything that can be twisted against the gun owner, can and will be.

-Mike
Click to expand...
Yea, that sounds farmiliar.
 
Scrivener said:
It is indeed amazing when a Philadelphia police commissioner has a better grasp of self-defense/defense of others than our own AG.
Click to expand...
"We... we really discourage self-help here" - Assmuppet General Martha Coakley

bvet4dog said:
this is what exactly will happen when more gun laws gets more twisted causing us owners cant posses a firearm.
Click to expand...
Can you put this into English so that the rest of us can understand it?
 
There were these bystanders...what kind? Women, children, men? As usual these news articles leave out lots of information, and write just enough to stir up the pot.
 

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