MA to NH Transfer

[pthomas65]

I want to give my 22cal rifle to a friend of mine in NH, how do I make the transfer from MA so it is registered to him. He is properly licensed in NH so nothing illegal here.
Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

[Hellbound]

Through an FFL.

 

[cyberlogicx]

Screw the government, just give him the gun.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

If you did an FA10 on it originally I always do an FA10 to get it out of my name. Sure it will still show as registered to you forever but the trail then goes on to another person. FFL and paper FA10

 

[pthomas65]

A MA or NH FFL?

 

[Len-2A Training]

MA law prohibits any MA dealer from transferring anything to a non-resident (Simon Rock Law), so it has to be a NH FFL.

 

[ScottS]

I want to give my 22cal rifle to a friend of mine in NH, how do I make the transfer from MA so it is registered to him. He is properly licensed in NH so nothing illegal here.
Thanks for any help you can give me.

Even after you take it to a NH FFL for transfer, have you friend fill out a 4473, and complete a NICS check, it will still not be registered to him.

 

[noxin]

Do a bill of sale, even for a penny to show transfer of ownership

 

[pthomas65]

MA law prohibits any MA dealer from transferring anything to a non-resident (Simon Rock Law), so it has to be a NH FFL.

Great, thank you.

 

[xtry51]

And we don't do registration in NH, nor does he need any kind of license to buy a gun here.

 

[PEW]

And we don't do registration in NH, nor does he need any kind of license to buy a gun here.

This. Try not to project any crappy mass laws on anyone else

 

[cyberlogicx]

This. Try not to project any crappy mass laws on anyone else

Careful, M*******s get butthurt when you mention Free State freedoms.

 

[frenchman]

If you guys believe for a second that you fill out a 4473 and that your gun still isn't registered, then I have a nice bridge to sell you.

 

[dcmdon]

Drive it up to a NH FFL and have him do the transfer. Done.

 

[dcmdon]

If you guys believe for a second that you fill out a 4473 and that your gun still isn't registered, then I have a nice bridge to sell you.

I guess it depends on how you define registered.

The Feds do not know about the gun. The dealer completes the 4473 and stores it. The nics check he does does not include any info about the firearm other than whether its a long gun, handgun, or other.

Yes, the feds can "trace" a gun from manufacturer to distributor to dealer. But it is a manual process.

The NICS check and 4473s to not provide the info necessary for the feds to do a reverse kind of search. i.e. pull up your name and see all the guns associated with your name.

Again - the 4473s are NOT sent to the feds. They are stored by the dealer, to be produced by the dealer if the feds come in with a specific name of serial number they are looking for.

 

[pthomas65]

Drive it up to a NH FFL and have him do the transfer. Done.

Will do. Thanks for all the info. I told my friend not to bother doing any research, NES would know the answer.

 

[Tracer1951]

Will do. Thanks for all the info. I told my friend not to bother doing any research, NES would know the answer.

Call around for transfers fees.... they vary among NH gun shops!

If your asked to pay any more than $20, walk out...your being screwed by the gun shop.

 

[Cabinetman]

I guess it depends on how you define registered.

The Feds do not know about the gun. The dealer completes the 4473 and stores it. The nics check he does does not include any info about the firearm other than whether its a long gun, handgun, or other.

Yes, the feds can "trace" a gun from manufacturer to distributor to dealer. But it is a manual process.

The NICS check and 4473s to not provide the info necessary for the feds to do a reverse kind of search. i.e. pull up your name and see all the guns associated with your name.

Again - the 4473s are NOT sent to the feds. They are stored by the dealer, to be produced by the dealer if the feds come in with a specific name of serial number they are looking for.

I wish that were the case here in CT. We discovered that there is a list, albeit inaccurate, but a list none-the-less that shows specific firearms and serial numbers and where they are located. The list has actual owner's name redacted but it's still a list where NO LIST was ever supposed to exist. The 4473 were supposed to be destroyed regularly but guess what. Go here to see what it looks like if you're interested. If you're a CT gun owner, check out your serial numbers.

http://ctcarry.com/Announcement/Details/585f7893-8c44-4473-ae97-12c293a747d1

 

[mikem317]

Could the NH friend even take physical possession of the rifle in MA w/o an FID/LTC?

 

[drgrant]

Could the NH friend even take physical possession of the rifle in MA w/o an FID/LTC?

"Possibly Maybe" if he fits under one of the exemptions in the law, but frankly it's safer to just tell people "not a good idea." Most MA dealers would inbound no problem, but the guy is potentially taking a risk driving down here with it (without an LTC holder escort) if he has no license or other stay out of jail card.

ETA: I misread the OPs post.. not enough coffee. For this scenario the answer is NO. Even ignoring possession issues, in MA the "Simons rock law" BS cockblocks the transfer in MA anyways, so the entire idea is a non starter. Must go through free state FFL.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Call around for transfers fees.... they vary among NH gun shops!

If your asked to pay any more than $20, walk out...your being screwed by the gun shop.

Not necessarily. There's no "Screwing" going on, the shop isn't holding a gun to your head to do a transfer there. The owner has decided what his time (and assumption of liability for touching a controlled product) is worth and I respect that. Now whether I shop there or not, or get a transfer done there or not, is another story, but even if a shop had a $50 transfer I wouldn't say they were trying to screw me, unless it was one of those deals where they said $25 on the phone and then you show up and its suddenly $50 or "Oh its $25 plus 5% of the value of the gun, whichever is greater" or any of that shifty horseshit that a few dealers play. That's actually being ripped off. I think pointing out this distinction is important. I have dealers that transfer stuff for $20, I have others that do it for $35, and in the past I even used a guy that was $40 with no hesitation. None were"trying to screw me".



-Mike

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I wish that were the case here in CT. We discovered that there is a list, albeit inaccurate, but a list none-the-less that shows specific firearms and serial numbers and where they are located. The list has actual owner's name redacted but it's still a list where NO LIST was ever supposed to exist. The 4473 were supposed to be destroyed regularly but guess what. Go here to see what it looks like if you're interested. If you're a CT gun owner, check out your serial numbers.

http://ctcarry.com/Announcement/Details/585f7893-8c44-4473-ae97-12c293a747d1

We have the same thing in Mass, the FRB as a list of everything you have ever owned, even after you sell it, it still shows under your name, just hopefully with another transfer away from you it you did the proper paperwork. That is why if you sell to a FFL and only keep the receipt and don't do an FA10 with their dealer name the trail ends with you.

 

[M1911]

MA law prohibits any MA dealer from transferring anything to a non-resident (Simon Rock Law), so it has to be a NH FFL.

What he said.

Drive up to NH, meet him at a NH gun shop of your choice, and have them do the transfer.

 

[Cmaro21]

"Possibly Maybe" if he fits under one of the exemptions in the law, but frankly it's safer to just tell people "not a good idea." Most MA dealers would inbound no problem, but the guy is potentially taking a risk driving down here with it (without an LTC holder escort) if he has no license or other stay out of jail card.

ETA: I misread the OPs post.. not enough coffee. For this scenario the answer is NO. Even ignoring possession issues, in MA the "Simons rock law" BS cockblocks the transfer in MA anyways, so the entire idea is a non starter. Must go through free state FFL.

-Mike

Wait, so I can't drive to NH with a firearm and just do a bill of sale for anything other than a pistol? I though this was legal, both ways. ie - I drive to NH, buy a long arm, drive back to mass, process FA10 within 10 days. opposite way, drive to NH, sell firearm, makeup a bill of sale, no FA10.

 

[drgrant]

Wait, so I can't drive to NH with a firearm and just do a bill of sale for anything other than a pistol? I though this was legal, both ways. ie - I drive to NH, buy a long arm, drive back to mass, process FA10 within 10 days. opposite way, drive to NH, sell firearm, makeup a bill of sale, no FA10.

It's legal if you use an FFL at all times in the case of dissimilar residency. The transfer must go through an FFL if the buyer and sellers residencies don't match. Handguns have an additional constraint in the sense that an FFL in any given state can only transfer a handgun to a resident of the state they're in. FFLs can intake handguns from anywhere/anyone but they can only "dispense" them to residents of the state they operate in, or to other FFLs wherever. There are some exceptions to this (eg, Repair, some other weird ones that don't apply to most people) but that's kinda beyond the scope of this. This is federal law and applies everywhere.

Make up a bill of sale? that sounds like private transfer business. That's not something you do when you cross state lines, as you should be using an FFL at that point.

-Mike

 

[ScottS]

Wait, so I can't drive to NH with a firearm and just do a bill of sale for anything other than a pistol? I though this was legal, both ways. ie - I drive to NH, buy a long arm, drive back to mass, process FA10 within 10 days. opposite way, drive to NH, sell firearm, makeup a bill of sale, no FA10.

All INTERSTATE transfers of a firearm must go through an FFL. For handguns, it must go through an FFL in the recipient's home state.

MA law adds a twist, because if we were talking about two buds from, say ME and NH, FFL's in either state could handle the transfer (of a long gun). The "Simon Says" law, or whatever it is called, in MA removes the MA FFL from facilitating the transfer.

 

[nhpoke]

It is generally not allowed to transfer to / from an individual not from your state.

 

[M1911]

Wait, so I can't drive to NH with a firearm and just do a bill of sale for anything other than a pistol? I though this was legal, both ways. ie - I drive to NH, buy a long arm, drive back to mass, process FA10 within 10 days. opposite way, drive to NH, sell firearm, makeup a bill of sale, no FA10.

Nope.

Interstate sales have to go through an FFL. For long guns, the FFL can be in any state. For handguns, the FFL must be in the buyer's state of residence.

Excerpts from the ATF FAQ. Note that the term "unlicensed person" means someone with out an FFL. A "licensee" is an FFL.

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

Full text here: https://www.atf.gov/content/firearm...ns-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-transfer

 

[Cmaro21]

drgrant and scott, thanks for the info.

M1911, thanks for the quote.

It has been a while and I must have been confusing it. No problem going to NH and buy any long gun from an FFL or transfer them from a private sale at an FFL. Once back in ma, FA10 within 10 days.

Thanks for the clarification and information to all.

 

[dcmdon]

I wish that were the case here in CT. We discovered that there is a list, albeit inaccurate, but a list none-the-less that shows specific firearms and serial numbers and where they are located. The list has actual owner's name redacted but it's still a list where NO LIST was ever supposed to exist. The 4473 were supposed to be destroyed regularly but guess what. Go here to see what it looks like if you're interested. If you're a CT gun owner, check out your serial numbers.

http://ctcarry.com/Announcement/Details/585f7893-8c44-4473-ae97-12c293a747d1

You are correct - for CT.

I believe that NH does not have any forms for the dealer to complete. So all records are federal, which means they are all held by the dealer.

We've known for years that the CT DESPP was entering the data off the form DPS-3 into a computerized database.

In fact, we were able to get this historical data, without the owner's names, from the DESPP via a FOIA request. We now have a searchable database of all the firearms tracked by DPS-3. Keep in mind that if you bought a long gun via a dealer, but then sold to a non-licensee without doing a NICS check (legal until 4/4/13) the gun will forever show as yours.

Don

Here's the link to our searchable registry. You will need to join to get access. (Free)

http://ctcarry.com/WeaponsRegistry/List