Ludwig Wilhelm Seecamp

[chris_1001]

So does seecamp own Ezzox? Asking for a friend.

If you’ve been on the forums, you get it

 

[enbloc]

Super KUDOS!

Crap. I did it again. Sorry Sterg.

 

[Sterg]

Super KUDOS!

Crap. I did it again. Sorry Sterg.

No problem. Humor is always welcome!

 

[Sterg]

So does seecamp own Ezzox? Asking for a friend.

If you’ve been on the forums, you get it

Lol. The reason they recommend the Eezox is because it’s a dry lubricant. From what I understand if you oil the slide, or if there is too much oil the slide had the potential to fly down range. It hydroplanes right off the frame. You do have to be careful with the Eezox though. It has Trichloroethylene so it’s fairly nasty. Smells nice though.

 

[chris_1001]

Lol. The reason they recommend the Eezox is because it’s a dry lubricant. From what I understand if you oil the slide, or if there is too much oil the slide had the potential to fly down range. It hydroplanes right off the frame. You do have to be careful with the Eezox though. It has Trichloroethylene so it’s fairly nasty. Smells nice though.

I always thought the seecamp was a captured upper. No way it can fly off.

have not looked at mine in a while.

eezox is a decent CLP. Still have a small can.

 

[Sterg]

I always thought the seecamp was a captured upper. No way it can fly off.

have not looked at mine in a while.

eezox is a decent CLP. Still have a small can.

Me too. I don’t understand how it happens. I’ve also heard people using CLP or barristol without any problems.

 

[ccm75]

Interesting info here. I was not aware of the history.
I have a .32 Larry made gun I bought from Bob's in Webster in the 90's.
I have often thought of selling it but glad I did not. It comes in handy as a deep cover CCW....And its just a cool little New England made gun.
And my gun fires well with all kinds of ammo, I never found it finicky at all.

 

[TJRaccoon]

I have the .25 and .32 both have been excellent belly gun for CCW. I suspect by the serial number range I picked up one of the last few .25's made. Mags and ammo length have been a bit persnickety over the years for the .32, but following Forum and Seecamp guidance was successfully.

I really like when I needed to call customer service and they patched me to Larry S., I thought that was rather cool. Liked talking with Larry, he struck me a cool dude. That goes back many years ago.

For a sight-less belly gun they do shoot well at 21 feet or less!

 

[Sterg]

After seeing his posts on Facebook and talking to people that knew him I would have loved the privilege to have known him. Definitely a cool dude.

 

[TJRaccoon]

I didn't know he passed a few years ago. That is sad news. He may have passed but his reputation in the field was solid.

 

[Retired Metalsmith]

......View attachment 429394

After seeing his posts on Facebook and talking to people that knew him I would have loved the privilege to have known him. Definitely a cool dude.

Sterg, I just saw your early Seecamp Co. history, and here’s the rest of it.
A Primary Supplier’s Relationship With Larry Seecamp (L.W. Seecamp Co.)

by: “Retired Metalsmith”

With Larry’s passing, and having been his primary supplier contact for approximately 20 years, I wanted to share some of the details of Larry’s business growth and Killeen Machine Tool’s business with Larry during that timeframe because I was Larry’s (and his Office Mgr. Sandi’s) most frequent contact at Killeen. This is a tribute to Larry since I am unaware of Larry having provided these details before his passing.

Killeen Machine Tool Co. Inc. (when it was in Worcester MA, and under different from present President/owner, and business name) evolved into being Larry’s primary supplier for the 32 and 380 caliber magazine assemblies, raw castings, metal stampings, and springs. I’ve been away from the firearms component manufacturing business for approximately ten years now (as of 2022), so the below dates or details are based upon my present recall.

Killeen’s business with Larry started in the early 1990s when a gun dealer told me that I had to wait one year to get an LWS 32 because L.W. Seecamp Co. couldn’t make magazines quickly enough to satisfy pistol orders. I was Killeen’s Quality Mgr. and inside salesperson, and Killeen had a history of pistol and rifle magazine production going back to the early 1960s. Killeen’s early 1990s magazine large production quantities were shipping to Colt, S & W (mag. tubes), and Savage (mag. boxes).

I discussed this possible Seecamp business with Killeen’s President (Norman Doucet), made an introductory call to Larry, and set up a meeting at Larry’s business. Norman and I realized how down-to-earth Larry was when we saw that his office cats had the run of any desk, chair, or cabinet with their cat fur being everywhere (Norman and I were dressed in the customary sport coat and dress slacks and because of all the cat hair, chose to stand before going into the shop; Larry loved those cats).

Larry said that he had been slowly producing magazine tubes by buying sheet metal stock (17-7), cutting it into small rectangles, stacking the rectangles and group drilling the sight holes, perimeter machining, profile forming around an arbor, hand welding the seam, and then heat treating in a small tool room sized heat treating oven. He machined his magazine baseplate from aluminum stock, and I seem to recall that Larry was hand winding his magazine springs on an arbor. Larry told us that another magazine manufacturer (he didn’t state a name) had previously agreed to produce a magazine for him, but it unsuccessfully didn’t fit well in the pistol nor work properly, and that Killeen was welcome to try. Larry said that he didn’t have high confidence that Killeen’s magazine would be any better than the prior vendor’s attempt.

Norman took that response as a challenge and told Larry that Killeen’s magazine tooling and initial samples would typically take approximately one year to produce, be produced at Killeen’s expense, and that I would call him when Killeen had samples ready to test at Seecamp. Norman and I got Larry to agree to using 420L stainless steel on the stamped magazine components because this alloy was a heat treatable grade of stainless that Killeen was required to use (per S & W’s chief metallurgist Jim Grochmal) on S & W’s magazine tubes. The alloy’s “L” suffix denoted a tightly controlled minimum/maximum carbon content that resulted in no usage cracking of the tube’s lips or seam weld when properly heat treated. Conversely, by using the less expensive (non “L”) 420 alloy for any pistol’s magazine so as to increase profits could result in tube cracks (I’m aware of it happening with another firearms company).

Larry provided his magazine component drawings and sample magazines, and later from these samples I measured for whatever missing component dimensions were needed for the tooling and production components. Killeen produced our own set of CAD drawings and sent a set to Larry for his archives.

Norman knew the magnitude and risk of the project; over decades he had advanced from a company toolmaker to becoming it’s owner and president. Killeen’s Toolroom Mgr. (Everett Larson), likewise with decades of toolmaking experience, oversaw the in-house tool manufacturing for the magazine tube, follower, floorplate, and “L” shaped spacer/base lock. Specifically on the magazine tube’s flat blanking tool (which cuts the perimeter profile and sight holes like a cookie cutter), Norman wanted a compound tool (non-progressive tool) for feature accuracy and no part-to-part variation (progressive tools have different stations that perform additional part features, such as forming, and are prone to produce slight dimensional variations). In-house produced gages of the magazine tube’s outside maximum profile (to ensure magazine well free fit) and tube’s minimum inside profile (to ensure combined free fit of follower and spacer/base lock) were used on all production magazines. The mag. tube’s seam would be welded on one of Killeen’s custom TIG welding machines.

Norman determined that all of the magazine components were to be highly polished for smooth follower cycling and he wanted Killeen to have high quality magazines that matched Larry’s high quality guns.

Killeen’s initial handful of magazine assemblies, using Larry’s mag. springs, were ready for testing in a record eight or nine months (full magazine stamped component tooling and sampling usually took 12 - 14 months). Norman and I met with Larry and he was very impressed with the finish and smooth follower action. Larry immediately test fired the samples and couldn’t believe the positive short term loading, firing, and magazine ejection results. Larry and Norman quickly struck the business deal as to Killeen providing the magazine assemblies, using a sourced magazine spring, Killeen would own the magazine’s tooling, and L.W. Seecamp Co. would pay a higher magazine price to offset Killeen’s tooling investment (typical for the industry).

Magazine sales progressed for only a short period of time before Larry agreed that Killeen should produce all of the pistol’s metal stamped components. Again, these parts only resulted in positive functioning results and feedback from Larry, plus more Seecamp purchase orders to Killeen.

Shortly thereafter, Larry wanted to have some casting improvements and arranged with Norman and I to have Killeen source a new set of casting molds and castings from a new supplier. Larry told Norman and I that he did not want L.W. Seecamp Co. to own the molds, but for Killeen to own them, because of his concern that if his company were ever to be sued in the future, that he wouldn’t want another person or company getting ownership of these molds. Killeen sourced these new molds with Pine Tree Casting’s knowledgeable sales engineer Mark Gurney. Killeen was already a stamped parts supplier to Ruger, which was Pine Tree’s parent company. Mark is the person that recommended the change to 415 stainless alloy castings and the HIP process to the frames.


More Killeen drawings were produced and approved by Larry, and casting production commenced. Larry then wanted to increase frame machining throughput and decided that he needed a large magnetic table surface grinder to grind flat the grip frame’s solid right side as a flat datum surface for subsequent frame machining operations. Killeen had a similar magnetic rotary table type of grinder (approx. three to four foot diameter table) and Norman gave the grinder to Larry.

Larry’s mindset now was to purchase almost all of his components from Killeen. All of the pistol’s springs were now sourced by Killeen to custom spring manufactures, so now Larry or Sandi would release monthly component shipments to Killeen. Norman had guaranteed to Larry that Killeen would always maintain an on-hand inventory for immediate release of any magazines or components.

As a side note, Norman was a firearms owner and now a Seecamp fan; he arranged with Larry to purchase every one thousandth production LWS 32 pistol with the same remaining serial numbers. This arrangement went on for an unknown-to-me amount of time and pistols.

At some point later, Larry was investigating the use of weight saving titanium for the slide and frame. I arranged with Mark Gurney, through Ruger’s Arizona titanium molding facility, for five samples each. Larry machined at least one frame and slide and called me as to his determining that the slide wouldn’t work due to it having less mass and cycled too quickly during firing. He then thought the minimal pistol weight reduction over 415 stainless wasn’t worth the additional titanium cost and effort to fix the too fast cycling condition.

I’m unsure as to the date that Larry moved into his next building. Larry called me when he purchased it, he said that he was thrilled with it’s potential improvements over his current building, and that it was bought as a result of his getting a financial settlement from Glock over his lawsuit against Glock for patent infringement of his slide’s double spring assembly.

Sometime in 1998, Larry called me as to wanting to produce the 380 caliber using the 32 frame casting. Norman agreed and started an accelerated magazine tooling build for it, with Everett and I providing design input over this new magazine and it’s components versus the 32 caliber. In early 1999, Norman and I delivered initial 380 production magazine assemblies to Larry. Minor frame machining changes were made, and the first production run (not prototypes or test guns) of five 380 pistols (per Larry telling me) was made. Norman, Larry, and I owned three of that lot, with Norman and I having received ours in June 1999 (it doesn’t match Larry’s build date chart though, and Whalley just confirmed my serial number’s build date).

My tenure at Killeen, and the frequent contact with Larry, continued through Norman’s passing away in 2006, and two subsequent changes in Killeen company presidents, until I was gone from the company on Christmas Eve in 2011. I had an excellent business relationship (approx. 20 yrs.) with Larry, and after I left Killeen I’m unaware as to what business transpired between Killeen and Larry, or Killeen and Whalley Precision.

A few years later I had received an unexpected call from Larry as to him having sold his business and getting his invitation to a retirement party that he was throwing for himself. He definitely earned it.

Overall, I am pleased that Larry considered me a friend and that I had contributed to him being able to grow his company. He was a unique and special person.

 

[Sterg]

Sterg, I just saw your early Seecamp Co. history, and here’s the rest of it.
A Primary Supplier’s Relationship With Larry Seecamp (L.W. Seecamp Co.)

by: “Retired Metalsmith”

With Larry’s passing, and having been his primary supplier contact for approximately 20 years, I wanted to share some of the details of Larry’s business growth and Killeen Machine Tool’s business with Larry during that timeframe because I was Larry’s (and his Office Mgr. Sandi’s) most frequent contact at Killeen. This is a tribute to Larry since I am unaware of Larry having provided these details before his passing.

Killeen Machine Tool Co. Inc. (when it was in Worcester MA, and under different from present President/owner, and business name) evolved into being Larry’s primary supplier for the 32 and 380 caliber magazine assemblies, raw castings, metal stampings, and springs. I’ve been away from the firearms component manufacturing business for approximately ten years now (as of 2022), so the below dates or details are based upon my present recall.

Killeen’s business with Larry started in the early 1990s when a gun dealer told me that I had to wait one year to get an LWS 32 because L.W. Seecamp Co. couldn’t make magazines quickly enough to satisfy pistol orders. I was Killeen’s Quality Mgr. and inside salesperson, and Killeen had a history of pistol and rifle magazine production going back to the early 1960s. Killeen’s early 1990s magazine large production quantities were shipping to Colt, S & W (mag. tubes), and Savage (mag. boxes).

I discussed this possible Seecamp business with Killeen’s President (Norman Doucet), made an introductory call to Larry, and set up a meeting at Larry’s business. Norman and I realized how down-to-earth Larry was when we saw that his office cats had the run of any desk, chair, or cabinet with their cat fur being everywhere (Norman and I were dressed in the customary sport coat and dress slacks and because of all the cat hair, chose to stand before going into the shop; Larry loved those cats).

Larry said that he had been slowly producing magazine tubes by buying sheet metal stock (17-7), cutting it into small rectangles, stacking the rectangles and group drilling the sight holes, perimeter machining, profile forming around an arbor, hand welding the seam, and then heat treating in a small tool room sized heat treating oven. He machined his magazine baseplate from aluminum stock, and I seem to recall that Larry was hand winding his magazine springs on an arbor. Larry told us that another magazine manufacturer (he didn’t state a name) had previously agreed to produce a magazine for him, but it unsuccessfully didn’t fit well in the pistol nor work properly, and that Killeen was welcome to try. Larry said that he didn’t have high confidence that Killeen’s magazine would be any better than the prior vendor’s attempt.

Norman took that response as a challenge and told Larry that Killeen’s magazine tooling and initial samples would typically take approximately one year to produce, be produced at Killeen’s expense, and that I would call him when Killeen had samples ready to test at Seecamp. Norman and I got Larry to agree to using 420L stainless steel on the stamped magazine components because this alloy was a heat treatable grade of stainless that Killeen was required to use (per S & W’s chief metallurgist Jim Grochmal) on S & W’s magazine tubes. The alloy’s “L” suffix denoted a tightly controlled minimum/maximum carbon content that resulted in no usage cracking of the tube’s lips or seam weld when properly heat treated. Conversely, by using the less expensive (non “L”) 420 alloy for any pistol’s magazine so as to increase profits could result in tube cracks (I’m aware of it happening with another firearms company).

Larry provided his magazine component drawings and sample magazines, and later from these samples I measured for whatever missing component dimensions were needed for the tooling and production components. Killeen produced our own set of CAD drawings and sent a set to Larry for his archives.

Norman knew the magnitude and risk of the project; over decades he had advanced from a company toolmaker to becoming it’s owner and president. Killeen’s Toolroom Mgr. (Everett Larson), likewise with decades of toolmaking experience, oversaw the in-house tool manufacturing for the magazine tube, follower, floorplate, and “L” shaped spacer/base lock. Specifically on the magazine tube’s flat blanking tool (which cuts the perimeter profile and sight holes like a cookie cutter), Norman wanted a compound tool (non-progressive tool) for feature accuracy and no part-to-part variation (progressive tools have different stations that perform additional part features, such as forming, and are prone to produce slight dimensional variations). In-house produced gages of the magazine tube’s outside maximum profile (to ensure magazine well free fit) and tube’s minimum inside profile (to ensure combined free fit of follower and spacer/base lock) were used on all production magazines. The mag. tube’s seam would be welded on one of Killeen’s custom TIG welding machines.

Norman determined that all of the magazine components were to be highly polished for smooth follower cycling and he wanted Killeen to have high quality magazines that matched Larry’s high quality guns.

Killeen’s initial handful of magazine assemblies, using Larry’s mag. springs, were ready for testing in a record eight or nine months (full magazine stamped component tooling and sampling usually took 12 - 14 months). Norman and I met with Larry and he was very impressed with the finish and smooth follower action. Larry immediately test fired the samples and couldn’t believe the positive short term loading, firing, and magazine ejection results. Larry and Norman quickly struck the business deal as to Killeen providing the magazine assemblies, using a sourced magazine spring, Killeen would own the magazine’s tooling, and L.W. Seecamp Co. would pay a higher magazine price to offset Killeen’s tooling investment (typical for the industry).

Magazine sales progressed for only a short period of time before Larry agreed that Killeen should produce all of the pistol’s metal stamped components. Again, these parts only resulted in positive functioning results and feedback from Larry, plus more Seecamp purchase orders to Killeen.

Shortly thereafter, Larry wanted to have some casting improvements and arranged with Norman and I to have Killeen source a new set of casting molds and castings from a new supplier. Larry told Norman and I that he did not want L.W. Seecamp Co. to own the molds, but for Killeen to own them, because of his concern that if his company were ever to be sued in the future, that he wouldn’t want another person or company getting ownership of these molds. Killeen sourced these new molds with Pine Tree Casting’s knowledgeable sales engineer Mark Gurney. Killeen was already a stamped parts supplier to Ruger, which was Pine Tree’s parent company. Mark is the person that recommended the change to 415 stainless alloy castings and the HIP process to the frames.


More Killeen drawings were produced and approved by Larry, and casting production commenced. Larry then wanted to increase frame machining throughput and decided that he needed a large magnetic table surface grinder to grind flat the grip frame’s solid right side as a flat datum surface for subsequent frame machining operations. Killeen had a similar magnetic rotary table type of grinder (approx. three to four foot diameter table) and Norman gave the grinder to Larry.

Larry’s mindset now was to purchase almost all of his components from Killeen. All of the pistol’s springs were now sourced by Killeen to custom spring manufactures, so now Larry or Sandi would release monthly component shipments to Killeen. Norman had guaranteed to Larry that Killeen would always maintain an on-hand inventory for immediate release of any magazines or components.

As a side note, Norman was a firearms owner and now a Seecamp fan; he arranged with Larry to purchase every one thousandth production LWS 32 pistol with the same remaining serial numbers. This arrangement went on for an unknown-to-me amount of time and pistols.

At some point later, Larry was investigating the use of weight saving titanium for the slide and frame. I arranged with Mark Gurney, through Ruger’s Arizona titanium molding facility, for five samples each. Larry machined at least one frame and slide and called me as to his determining that the slide wouldn’t work due to it having less mass and cycled too quickly during firing. He then thought the minimal pistol weight reduction over 415 stainless wasn’t worth the additional titanium cost and effort to fix the too fast cycling condition.

I’m unsure as to the date that Larry moved into his next building. Larry called me when he purchased it, he said that he was thrilled with it’s potential improvements over his current building, and that it was bought as a result of his getting a financial settlement from Glock over his lawsuit against Glock for patent infringement of his slide’s double spring assembly.

Sometime in 1998, Larry called me as to wanting to produce the 380 caliber using the 32 frame casting. Norman agreed and started an accelerated magazine tooling build for it, with Everett and I providing design input over this new magazine and it’s components versus the 32 caliber. In early 1999, Norman and I delivered initial 380 production magazine assemblies to Larry. Minor frame machining changes were made, and the first production run (not prototypes or test guns) of five 380 pistols (per Larry telling me) was made. Norman, Larry, and I owned three of that lot, with Norman and I having received ours in June 1999 (it doesn’t match Larry’s build date chart though, and Whalley just confirmed my serial number’s build date).

My tenure at Killeen, and the frequent contact with Larry, continued through Norman’s passing away in 2006, and two subsequent changes in Killeen company presidents, until I was gone from the company on Christmas Eve in 2011. I had an excellent business relationship (approx. 20 yrs.) with Larry, and after I left Killeen I’m unaware as to what business transpired between Killeen and Larry, or Killeen and Whalley Precision.

A few years later I had received an unexpected call from Larry as to him having sold his business and getting his invitation to a retirement party that he was throwing for himself. He definitely earned it.

Overall, I am pleased that Larry considered me a friend and that I had contributed to him being able to grow his company. He was a unique and special person.

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Bob's Gun & Archery Shop]

I miss seeing and talking with Norman over the years, I was the one who did every transfer of his 1000 serial number LWS32 transfers for Norman. I also remember seeing the very first LWS380 Pistols that were sent to Norman and still remember the serial numbers but wont post that here. Back in the day I was on automatic delivery from Larry of 15 Pistols every 3 months and if you remember those days back orders were in the years on the LWS 32.

Bob