"Livin' to die young...in Chinatown
You better look around..in Chinatown
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"Livin' to die young...in Chinatown
You better look around..in Chinatown
[video=youtube_share;fblzGxoWMRs]http://youtu.be/fblzGxoWMRs[/video]
Yup, I can also tell this story is a fake because in real life those four guys would have taken that gun and used it against him.
What I find funny, or maybe sad, is I've seen/heard several times people say, when referring to an incident where someone got mugged/jumped/whatever, "gosh, I just don't know if having a gun in that situation would have helped???" (Rep. Gordon did this exact thing at the Bedford forum) Its usually used as an argument of why carrying a gun is pointless. Well congratulations for not knowing anything. Obviously by the time someone has a knife to your chest its a crapshoot if drawing a gun is going to help. I think if you're the type to wonder if a gun would help in some situation, then chances are you also don't have the proper mindset to be alert enough to avoid the situation altogether by acting before someone is right in your face.
This is a perfect story of how a gun prevented violence.
do you think they would have stopped chasing him if he turned into a raging homo. really flamboyant. either way it would have been a great thing to watch.
Before I tipped my hand and made them aware I was carrying (flash/brandish/whatever) I would have crossed the street and see if they followed. It would give Me a better idea of their intentions and also show that I tried to avoid a confrontation should the question ever come up.
I think this is a pretty bad idea.
On the surface, nowhere in this country is it legal to brandish a firearm to someone for saying "lets do it". Saying "lets do it" is not a crime. Then factor in we're in MA where you have a duty to retreat. Its just a bad idea.
People see brandishing for what it is- a macho challenge. "see what i got? you really want to mess with me?". Thats what it is. If you have to shoot someone and get to court you're going to look like an aggressive *******, that contributed to the problem. Forget possible criminal charges, you'll go broke just defending yourself from wrongful death- win or lose.
Me, i'd beat feet. Perhaps indicate verbally to them that i feel threatened, "hey guys i dont want any trouble, please don't follow us" or whatever, before beating feat. I know it's not macho and cool, but that's the right thing to do. If said BG's ignore you or threaten you, and beat feet after you then i'd feel pretty comfortable (legally a morally) pulling on them if i had to. Later in a civil court (and perhaps criminal) i could explain that i did everything i could possibly do to diffuse and avoid the situation.
Look at it from a different perspective even- what if its a misunderstanding? What if they were talking about something else and had a legitimate (lawful) reason to turn around and walk the same direction as said person? All they said was "lets do it". If the person you misunderstood is a fellow CCW'r he'd be within his legal rights to draw on you, then you draw, and its a shootout that you unlawfully started. Youre looking at mucho jail time and probably going broke too.
I mean seriously, if all they say is "lets do it", even if those guys are planning on raping and killing both of you, if you avoid criminal charges, BG's family is still going to sue you for wrongful death and say he was a good kid that forgot his contact lens solution, or something, that they were turning around to go back to the store and get it when some stranger pulled a gun on them for no reason...
I just think brandishing is always a bad idea, especially in Mass.... If you're carrying the trump card, dont play it in the middle of the hand. If you show someone you're carrying, let them be looking down the barrel- hold 'em or fold 'em, game over.
Have you ever been in a street fight? Robbed? I think the OP's brother handled it correctly. I have been in street fights, even jumped by 5 people once. I tried to talk myself out of the situation, know what it got me? Getting beat up with a tire iron and a baseball bat. So they could steal my wallet and have fun beating on a kid. Unlike what your momma told you violence does solve everything.
Glad they're okay. Boston is a shithole. I was just having a conversation with a lady friend who's partying at clubs in Boston. I'm like, not even my knife is legal there . What a joke. Stay safe everyone.
I live in Boston, take the T all the time at night etc. and I can only carry pepper spray . I am jealous of the green towners who can carry where I live while I can't lol. Glad it turned out ok.
Yea and the North Shore isn't? I wouldn't be surprised when most of the muggers who commit crimes downtown don't live in the city, they hop on the T from who knows where.
Have you ever been in a street fight? Robbed? I think the OP's brother handled it correctly. I have been in street fights, even jumped by 5 people once. I tried to talk myself out of the situation, know what it got me? Getting beat up with a tire iron and a baseball bat. So they could steal my wallet and have fun beating on a kid. Unlike what your momma told you violence does solve everything.
It is what it is. We live in MA. We dont have stand your ground laws outside of your home, and we dont have laws so that the family cant sue your brains out when you shoot someone defending yourself.
Whether someone is right or wrong in this situation you would go broke defending yourself in court. Like my original post said. Its just a matter of positioning yourself to make it thoroughly obvious there was a threat to you and you were justified in using force. If you brandish a gun in the situation before the law says you can shoot someone, then it could be argued that you contributed to the situation and you are therefor liable.
Obviously if you're a paraplegic (or whatever) and cant beat feat then skip that part. The whole point is you TRY, you can still show that you did whatever you humanly could to avoid and diffuse the situation. Verbally communicating with them would still give you a good idea of their intentions without beating feet. Obviously i'm not suggesting that everyone train to be a track star so you can run away from trouble and they'll never catch you. The whole idea of taking off is to position yourself for having to defend yourself by shooting the BG. Even crossing the street and seeing if they follow you, like someone said, would give you more idea of their intentions. Its the same idea.
A couple people said you can't second guess people or you don't know what its like until you're there.....well neither can a judge or jury guys, or even the responding officers, and they WILL be second guessing you! If i had no choice but to take someones life, i'd want the evidence to be really damn clear that i had no other choice and i did everything i could do to avoid the situation, including running away. Running away and the BG chasing you makes it really obvious to anyone there was a direct and obvious threat. And keep in mind the law says you have to flee. You can't say, "sorry officer i cant flee because my wife is wearing high heels" or "i'm too fat" or whatever. The law says you have to try, the law doesnt say you have to run faster and get away, but you do have to try. So why brandish a gun before fleeing? If you have to flee anyways, why do it? To save yourself from getting winded? To save the wifes high heels? If they chase after you, gain on you, to where you feel you have no other choice, turn and pull.
and if the BG's are so close as to you cant run, how is brandishing going to help you at all? Couldnt they just jump on you, and take the gun? If they're not close enough to take the gun then they're still at a distance to try to flee IMO.
I know staying safe is the number 1 goal. But i'd rather be safe and position myself to keep my house and not go broke.
If the defendant (used deadly force, which is force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm) (or) (used a dangerous weapon in a manner intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm), the Commonwealth must prove one of the following three things beyond a reasonable doubt:
First, that the defendant did not reasonably and actually believe that he (she) was in immediate danger of great bodily harm or death; or
Second, that the defendant did not do everything reasonable in the circumstances to avoid physical combat before resorting to force; or
Third, that the defendant used more force to defend himself (herself) than was reasonably necessary in the circumstances.
A person cannot lawfully act in self-defense unless he or she has exhausted all other reasonable
alternatives before resorting to force. A person may use physical force in self-defense only if he (she) could not get out of the situation in some other way that was available and reasonable at the time. The Commonwealth may prove the defendant did not act in self-defense by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant resorted to force without using avenues of escape that were reasonably available and which would not have exposed the defendant to further danger.
http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsan...s/criminal/pdf/9260-defenses-self-defense.pdf
I'm not saying i love the laws in MA at all. But they are what they are. I would not consider brandishing a weapon as your first move as, doing "everything reasonable in the circumstances to avoid physical combat before resorting to force".
And i would think that if you dont bother running for xyz reason the law in MA will pork you. Like i said before, i think the case could be made that brandishing the weapon instead of pulling it is proof in of itself that you weren't in such a threatening situation that you could not retreat.
I just think brandishing in general is a bad idea. Especially in MA.
Yeah, but if you are dead you need not worry about your house, or anything else for that matter. Once again, we all would love to imagine just how we would react to any number of situations, or how we would always do the "right" thing. Unless you have been there I call BS. I hope and pray to God my time never comes, but if it does I pray I have the wherewithal to do what needs to be done. Period. Do you truly know what you would do? Would you run, show your gun, or just stain your tightie whities.
I could see the case for pulling the gun. If you were threatened for your life, it would be difficult to tell said person they should not be afraid. But obviously if you just brandish the gun youre not in immediate fear for your life (or great bodily injury etc etc).... So how does not brandishing end up with you getting killed? It seems obvious when a person brandishes its because they see the potential for (great bodily whatever whatever) harm, but there isnt direct threat of being harmed, as such a scenario would warrant pulling the weapon. The way i see it is brandishing is proof in of itself that the situation wasnt, at the time, directly threatening enough to cause you harm to the extent that a firearm would be lawful to use, which is why you didnt pull the gun and showed it instead. So obviously if you fear for your life, use your weapon, noones saying you shouldn't. But if you dont fear for your life (great bodily harm etc tec)... well... don't use your firearm.
Obviously i cant say for sure what i would do, but i like to think i wouldn't display a gun i wasn't ready to use.
I too hope it doesnt come for me- for you- or for any of us. But talking about it i think raises the odds that we'll act in a way to minimize the repercussions for protecting ourselves.
Maybe some people dont realize how bad the laws in MA are. I know my buddy just took a LTC course that lasted like 2 hours and he learned pretty much nothing....
Like any cop, unfortunately all that did was delay the inevitable, the crime will still happen later to someone else. Although in this state it is and you would be better off being the actual criminal, since they would later deem them the victim!
Charles.
I would never just show a gun like that, good way to get shot in the back.
Well, I was thinking that goes along with what Jason6 was saying about brandishing. If you have reason enough to show it, then you have reason enough to use it. Personally speaking, if a BG ever sees my gun it will only be because he caught a quick glimpse before the flash and bang. It should inmo never be used to threaten or intimidate since there are way too many things that could go wrong, including getting your own ass shot because now YOU are the threat!
That whole area just sucks. Last year I was working in the theater district bartending at one of the theaters and walking back to meet some friends two kids (maybe 20) Decided they wanted my wallet. All I did was lift my shirt and say no and they ran off. The saddest part is I was waiting for them to show back up with a cop to tell them I pulled a gun.
Are some of you guys really more worried about THE LAW! than you are about your personal safety? Christ.
Are some of you guys really more worried about THE LAW! than you are about your personal safety? Christ.
so you think his brother should have let them at least throw a punch first? or stab him? or stab his wife? Not me.